Teachers are assessed all the time. Formal assessments by principals and county administrators.

[madfloridian]

When teachers are hired they are given criteria which they are expected to meet. The principal, assistant principal, and sometimes guidance counselors visit the classrooms. Parents can visit the classroom, but must first make appointments through the office so as not to be too distractive to the classroom setting.

If a student is being assessed for special classes the guidance counselor may observe daily to keep notes on the child's behavior in a classroom setting. In our county the assistant principal would be involved in assessment also.

Twice a year the principal or assistant principal would observe formally for about half an hour unexpectedly. It would be drop in at the times of evaluation, it would be drop in at other times just to keep tabs on teachers.

We were observed all the time, we were judged by administrators, county officials, parents and other teachers.

You can bet your bottom dollar good teachers were known and bad ones were known as well.

Since teachers have formal observations kept in their permanent folders in written form, how can anyone say there is no way to know good teachers?

If I were a principal I would be livid to hear that this administration thinks testing students is the only way to judge teachers. I would think my judgment was being questioned.

Tests have always been given. When I started teaching over 30 years ago we gave a nationally normed test called the Iowa Test of Basic Skills...I think I remember that correctly. It involved reading, writing, and arithmetic. Basic skills.

I believe in testing students to a degree, but I don't believe in testing them to grade the teachers and to grade the schools. There are far too many other factors involved in assessing teachers and schools.

Teachers are required to renew certificates every few years. In our county we could do it through courses at nearby colleges and universities or inservice training at the schools. I often chose the college route though I had to pay for it myself. It was more challenging and effective, and I saw different points of view that our county administrators might ignore.

It is to our shame as a country that so many in this administration readily accept that the only way to tell if a teacher is a good teacher is to test the students.

That is quite simply either a cop-out...or has other motives such as privatization behind it.

[madfloridian]

1. And if counties lower standards to hire cheaper teachers....

then don't blame the well-educated teachers for the lowering of standards. That has happened in our county, and it is the fault of the county. It is not the fault of the teachers who are qualified.

[Uzybone]

2. what happens to the bad ones?

[madfloridian]

3. They keep getting marked down and will lose tenure.

But that's not enough is it? It's not enough because the tests set up under NCLB will bring failure by all teachers and schools in about 3 more years.

To all here who want their kiddies tested and tested more and more....there is something wrong with that picture.

[vi5]

4. I agree, but the testing should play a part...

My problem with performance testing for teachers is that I've seen way too many ridiculous, overbearing and deluded parents put too much pressure on teachers to give their kids grades they didn't deserve, to not write them up for bad behavior or performance, and whose pressure on the administrators and/or boards of ed caus them to put undue pressure on the teacher and/or ding their performance.

However, some standardized testing for the students could have an impact on this as well. In that if a teacher says a student is performing poorly, and is on record as such, and parents complain that it's personal and vindictive, if the kid also doesn't perform on a test it can serve as a sort of calibration for the dispute. And vice versa as well. If a kid performs well on a test despite a teachers complaints, then it could provide an alternate viewpoint to simply them being a "bad kid".

I dont' know what the solution is to be honest with you. I know that I want the solution to be realistic parents who are more actively involved in their kids educations and do more than just dropping them off at a school door in the morning, picking them up afterwards, and expecting all their learning and lessons to be performed during that time. However, that is not going to happen, sadly enough.

[madfloridian]

6. I said I thought we should do some testing.

But merit based pay based on student testing is failure from the beginning.

[madfloridian]

5. But now we must only have testing of students and merit pay based on it..

Because this Democratic administration wants it.

Teachers have lost their battle for fair assessment.