Defeatism sucks........

[27inCali]

Ok, so todays argument seems either to be that Obama is a corporate whore that doesn't give a shit about us and will cynically betray us all on a cornerstone Dem issue - or getting a public option is hopeless and we should just be "realistic" and fold now.

this premature defeatism from both sides of the argument is stupid and cowardly -and coming at precisely the moment that we Progressives have to be smart and strong and brave, put the minor tactical arguments to the side and all push together for this -We all are rooting for the Public Option, some are bullish some are bearish on it's prospects, whatever. Sometimes the absurdity of the semantic arguments here just make my head hurt and remind me why the Progressive Agenda accomplishes so little: everyone is so busy arguing and stroking their ego. Every challenge is met with defeatism, The Pragmatists can find no use for Idealism and the Idealist just cannot respect Pragmatism, and having a big, stinky pissing contest is more fun than putting aside the egos long enough to do something CONSTRUCTIVE.

as I usually say when big fights break out on DU. Both sides are being stupid.

Until Obama officially folds, I refuse to attack him for something he hasn't done yet. At the same time, I'm not ready to make a bunch excuses and give him more political cover to fold. The answer is in the middle. Demand Public Option passionately, boldly, profusely, but understand also how self-destructive it would be to walk away from all this with nothing and guarantee a Republican resurgence in 2010 that will make getting meaningful reform even more impossible than it already is.

The answer is to keep pressure up, cut the divisive crap aimed at each other, get organized and start letting these backstabbing scum sucker Senators know about the gobs of money and time we will be donating to their next primary rival if they betray us on this, or the gobs of money and time they will receive if they wake up and remember what team they are on.

But most of all hope beyond hope that the right thing is done and do what you can to constructively help to make it happen. And if there ever was a sure fire way to destroy Public Option it would be for us to waste our time flaming each other when we could be spending that precious time organizing and pressuring/threatening those disgusting shit stains in the Senate.

[treestar]

1. I really hate the all or nothing attitude

I hated it from conservatives, and it turns out I hate it here. We have a direction to go in - respect for the rule of law and being a real country again.

National health care is hard to get in this country, both because of the way it is set up and the people in it right now.

[Arkana]

2. I almost wish there was a way for Obama to establish a public option

via executive order.

[treestar]

4. Too true.

Why is the line drawn in the sand there, I would love to know. If it can't make it in Congress, then even the Democrats are not liberal enough for it.

[27inCali]

5. I think you have to bluff the all or nothing attitude

and bluff it loud and hard all the way up to the 11th hour and see if you can roll your enemy with it -while at the same time understanding that if, at the 11th hour, you are faced with nothing or a little bit of something, you take the something and quickly turn right back around and keep pushing for more.

Maybe the next time we still want get ALL that we want, but we will take whatever we can get our hands on and once that is done, we turn right around and demand more.

[elocs]

3. Defeatism sucks and reality is a harsh mistress. Choose your poison.

One way or another we will have the measure of Obama with this and will know what we can expect from him in the future. This will be a big moment for all of us.

[27inCali]

6. you're right

this IS his big test.

[treestar]

9. How come?

Why this? Couldn't the same be said about the stimulus? Or just about anything?

[Cha]

8. I can take Reality..but Defeatism

isn't Reality.

We have a President now who with his Team is living in reality whereas the bush+cheney years were anything but. Orwell comes to mind.

[Cha]

7. Sure does and there's a lot of

Defeatism Suckers around this board.

Not in my life though..which is really Fine.

[DJ13]

10. I give up

Oh wait.......