What makes a Democrat liberal?

[ProSense]

A lot of people hold up Kucinich as the most liberal Democrat, but what does that mean? Kucinich is liberal, but his voting record is no different from a lot of Democrats.

Here are some of Kucinich's votes that were left out of the list linked to above.

Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)

Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)

Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)

Voted YES on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)

Voted NO on end offshore tax havens and promote small business. (Oct 2004)


Another Democrat voted exactly the opposite and also has an impressive record:

Voted NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)

Voted NO on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)

Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)

Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)

Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)

Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore. (Mar 2005)

Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)

Voted YES on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)

Voted NO on increasing penalties for drug offenses. (Nov 1999)

Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)

Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)

Voted NO on Strengthening of the trade embargo against Cuba. (Mar 1996)

Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)

Voted NO on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)

Voted NO on spending international development funds on drug control. (Jul 1996)


In 2007, Kucinich also voted yes on Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.


Now what exactly makes Kucinich more liberal?

Is it because he supports gay marriage? So do a number of Democrats in the House and Senate.

Is it because he supports single payer? So do a number of other Democrats in Congress.

Is it because he opposes the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan (which he voted for)? So do a number of other Democrats in Congress.


A Liberal Definition by John F. Kennedy:

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

h/t billh58


Obama's agenda, including his budget, is one of the most progressive in history. He will be judged by his actions, all of them, and in the end, he will be viewed as one of the most progressive Presidents in history.

[ProSense]

1. No comment? n/t

[Oregone]

41. You are consistently the first to reply to your troll threads with "No comment?"

Its as if you are agitated that no realized the asinine nature of your post yet.

[masuki bance]

65. LOL! nt

[ProSense]

66. "agitated that no realized the asinine nature of your post" And it attracted the biggest ass of all.

n/t

[bvar22]

67. +1

Total agreement.

[ProSense]

68. Is this a comment?

Thanks for responding. Now don't you feel better having done so?

[DJ13]

2. You've got to be kidding

Obama is NOT a liberal.

[SIMPLYB1980]

3. He is a Liberal.

What he's not is a whining "progressive".

[ProSense]

4. You appear panicked?

What makes a Democrat liberal?


Label him whatever you want to, but in the end he is and will be one of the most progressive Presidents ever.

[kentuck]

6. In my not-so-humble opinion...

If he is not a liberal, he is not a Democrat. I may be part of a small minority in the Party but we are not organized, so we pose no threat to the present political establishment.

[ProSense]

22. "If he is not a liberal, he is not a Democrat. "

Landrieu is a Democrat, but she's not a liberal. The party is made up of varying degrees of liberal and conservative Democrats.

Kerry is more liberal than Obama, but to say that Obama is not a liberal is ludicrous. There are some people who consider Hillary a liberal, and I actually believe that Obama is to the left of Hillary.

[DJ13]

7. in the end he is and will be one of the most progressive Presidents ever.

On some social issues, sure.

But on economic issues he's as tainted as Bill Clinton by his blind trust in the same financial criminals that have created the economy we are now suffering under.

Too often people ass ume the definition of liberal is based exclusively on social issues.

Thats incorrect.

[ProSense]

8. "But on economic issues he's as tainted as Bill Clinton" Simply nonsense

President Obama pushes for Consumer Financial Protection Agency, regulatory reform

"On some social issues, sure."

On all social issues, name a President whose social agenda rivals Obama's?

[DJ13]

9. Dont talk about what we agree on, try to say something about the disagreement

But on economic issues he's as tainted as Bill Clinton.

Show me where thats wrong.

Has Obama reformed our financial system after the worst economic calamity since the Great Depression?

Has he broken up "too big to fail" so the big banks cant continue hurting everyday Americans by charging unfair fees and usurious interest rates?

Has he reformed our commodities markets to prevent unbridled speculation from adding to our economy woes?

Has he reigned in the health insurers and big pharma to keep them from further damaging people, or has he been making back room deals?

Theres more to being a real liberal than allowing gays to kiss in public.

[ProSense]

11. You're wrong because you're in denial and prefer to ignore the information provide

"Has Obama reformed our financial system after the worst economic calamity since the Great Depression?"

So let me repost, the information:
President Obama pushes for Consumer Financial Protection Agency, regulatory reform

Now are you claiming that when Obama reforms the financial system and ends the "worst economic calamity since the Great Depression" that's equal to Clinton's deregulation?

On edit, Obama also has one of the most progressive budgets ever.

[DJ13]

13. Lets see if he pushes hard for it before claiming its a success

And Obama's effort doesnt go far enough as it fails to address many of the most blatant of financial abuses.

Cram down of mortgages, usury, and some fees are not in there.

Sure the financial industry is making noise that its too tough, but thats what they do regardless of whether its tough or not.

[ProSense]

14. So him pushing hard for it is not pushing hard?

"And Obama's effort doesnt go far enough as it fails to address many of the most blatant of financial abuses."

And Clinton's dergulation did?

What utter nonsense.

[DJ13]

16. And Clinton's dergulation did?

Uh, no.

Thats why I compared Obama's record on the financial industry with Clinton.

Same cast of characters as well.

[ProSense]

17. "Same cast of characters as well." Characters aren't an agenda.

This, President Obama pushes for Consumer Financial Protection Agency, regulatory reform, isn't equivalent to deregulation.

[DJ13]

18. Characters bring the agenda with them

[ProSense]

19. What? n/t

[DJ13]

20. Im just pulling your string

You take criticism of Obama way too serious.

[ProSense]

24. Oh, I thought this was a discussion.

My bad. I knew you had no point.

[Baltoman991]

5. Wrong!!!

Thanks for playing our game.........we have some lovely parting gifts for you though. Brush up a bit on what is and isn't liberal then play again.

What he's not is a far left loon and some here just can't stand that he isn't.

[treestar]

10. By JFK's admittedly vague definition, he is

[ProSense]

12. And more

What makes a Democrat liberal?


People can label Obama whatever they you want to, but he is and will be one of the most progressive Presidents ever.

[karynnj]

47. Wait 7 more years and judge by what is accomplished by him as President

He may very well be the President who:

signs into law the biggest increase in federal assistance for getting healthcare
signs into law the Lilly Ledbettor Act - giving women equal pay for equal work.
signs into law the first serious legislation on climate control and signs the Copenhagen treaty
signs what is needed to end DADT
finds a way to end DOMA - either through the courts or repealing it.
totally changes US policy from the last 50 years - ultimately ending the wars.

If these all happen or even say 4 of them do, will you agree that he is the most liberal President since LBJ.

[ProSense]

15. No more comments?

Don't just unrec, come on in a make a case.

[IndianaGreen]

21. The entire purpose of the stupid unrec system is not to discuss a topic

but to keep it from Greatest Page. You are one of the defenders of that system!

[ProSense]

23. Excuse me,

what?

[IndianaGreen]

26. I am merely answering your question...

nothing more, nothing less.

[anonymous171]

25. Social "Liberalism" is not real liberalism. Why do people always confuse the two?nt

[ProSense]

27. What is real liberalism? n/t

[DJ13]

28. Liberalism is NOT corporatism

The desires of corporations to profit comes way down the list to real liberals.

[ProSense]

30. Thanks for the stunning insight. Now, I will wait for a response from the poster. n/t

[anonymous171]

29. Economic Leftism.

A belief that when someone is deprived of certain materials (like food, water, home, etc) or services (healthcare, employment, education, etc) then they are not actually free. Social Liberalism is only a part of true Liberalism.

[ProSense]

32. Right.

And how many liberals, including those in Congress, actually strive to deprive people of food, water, home, healthcare, employment and an education? In fact, one of the biggest debates this year was about health care, and most liberals agree that it is a right.



edited extra words.

[Enrique]

31. supporting Ned Lamont over Joe Lieberman

that's the official definition of being a liberal.

[ProSense]

33. Take your pick

here or here

That's a simplistic view of what makes a liberal. Senator Boxer supported Lieberman. Does that make her not a liberal?

[Enrique]

34. ask a simplistic question

get a simplistic answer.

[ProSense]

36. The question was far from simplistic. n/t

[karynnj]

49. Lieberman was a sitting Senator

It is EXTREMELY unusual for any Senator not to support his peer over a challenger. Only TWO Senators PUBLICLY said they were neutral - as far as any of them went. Are Kerry and Feingold the only liberals in the Senate - or by not endorsing in the primary, are they out too - leaving no liberals. In teh general election, Obama backed Lamont.

[billh58]

35. As has been

stated elsewhere on DU, there seems to be some confusion between what is ideologically desirable, and what is realistically possible. The expectation that any POTUS, regardless of their political and social ideology, can perform feats of instantaneous legislative magic is ridiculous. Even Dubya was unable to push his complete neoconservative agenda through a more-or-less "puppet" Congress. The Far-Right was just as unhappy with his performance (after eight long years), as the Far-Left is with President Obama's performance (after eight short months).

I will accept President Kennedy's definition of American Liberalism as a standard for comparison, and by that standard, President Obama is in all respects a Liberal Democrat. He is also doing a much, much better job of being the President of ALL Americans, and in attempting to heal our national partisan divisions, than any Republican POTUS has in our recent history. That is another definition of Liberalism: giving weight to all opinions while attempting to win hearts and minds.

I am old enough to have had the pleasure of voting for the first Catholic POTUS, as well as the first African-American POTUS. Please don't try to tell me that our country is not making social and economic progress, or that our Constitutional way of representative government does not work. It may work too slowly for some, and for others ALL progress is painful, but this young and growing experiment in democracy is only made better and stronger by Liberal Americans like President Obama.

[Enrique]

37. how about someone who calls themselves a liberal?

it seems like Obama's message is really against labels like that.

Has Obama said "I am a liberal" or anything like that? I know he said to the DLC, "I am a New Democrat" which to me means as opposed to old, ideological, "liberal" democrat.

[billh58]

39. This may be

picking nits, but President Obama made that statement to a gathering of the New Democrat Coalition (NDC) which is made up of members of the House, and not the DLC.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19862.html

I believe that President (and Candidate) Obama purposely distanced himself from the DLC because of the neoconservative leanings of Al From and Will Marshall. Although he refuses to be pinned down, I further believe that by stating that he is a "New Democrat," he is saying that he is a moderate Liberal.

[ProSense]

40. So anyone who calls themselves a liberal is a liberal?

Lanny Davis claims to be a progressive on the left.

McCain tried to convince voters he was a liberal Republican. In fact, I've seen someone here used that term.

[Enrique]

43. what about Obama saying "I am a New Democrat"

as you see it, how does the term "New Democrat" relate to "liberal democrat"?

Are there other democrats that you consider to be liberals that have called themselves New Democrats?

[ProSense]

44. What about it?

He is what he is. This is about how his record and agenda fit into the construct of the liberal definition.

[Enrique]

45. is the DLC liberal, in your view? n/t

[ProSense]

48. Is it in your view? In anyone's?

Does anyone believe the DLC is liberal? Seriously?

[Enrique]

51. no, I don't think they are

but according to the reasoning in your OP, you could argue that the DLC is liberal.

If not, then what in your OP could you not say about Joe Lieberman for example? Or Hillary Clinton?

[ProSense]

52. Nothing in the OP portrays the DLC as liberal. Nothing. n/t

[Enrique]

53. what in the "impressive record" you list could you not say about Lieberman?

most votes over the past few years have been nearly party-line. You could list an "impressive record" for most dems, but would that make them liberal?

[ProSense]

54. If you're going to dig yourself into making a silly point, let me help

Lieberman:

Voted YES on Strengthening of the trade embargo against Cuba. (Mar 1996)
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
Voted YES on increasing penalties for drug offenses. (Nov 1999)
Voted YES on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)

[Enrique]

72. ok, thanks

after giving it more thought, I agree, that "impressive list" is a good solid record for a liberal.

[billh58]

69. Not all

New Democrats in the House NDC belong to, or agree with, the DLC. A few of them, like President Obama, have issues with the neoconservative views of Al From and Will Marshall.

[IndianaGreen]

55. New Democrat = New Labour

They both collaborated in plunging their respective countries into the Iraq fiasco.

[ProSense]

56. "They both collaborated in plunging their respective countries into the Iraq fiasco." What the hell

did Obama have to do with starting the Iraq war?

[IndianaGreen]

57. I am referring to Al From's New Democrats and Tony Blair's New Labour

Stop thinking that the entire universe revolves around Obama!

[ProSense]

58. Was the question about Obama?

So you decided to respond to a question about Obama with a description of Al From?

"Stop thinking that the entire universe revolves around Obama!"

Stop injecting irrelevant points into a direct discussion of Obama.

[IndianaGreen]

64. I was replying to Enrique not to you

[krispos42]

38. A vision of personal empowerment

Which is, IMO, a combination of individual freedoms, empowerment via government, and protection from repression by both government and business.

This means recognizing as many rights as possible: gay, minority-ethnic, gun, drug, speech, unionization, privacy, religion, trial, jury, etc.

This means using the government to tilt the system so that you don't need to come from a wealthy family or have exceptional skills to be prosperous or at least comfortable: universal education up to and including doctorates, universal single-payer health care, and universal livable retirement pension.

This means preventing businesses from becoming monopolies, from becoming transnational, from exporting wealth-creating jobs, and from exploiting overseas labor to undercut the American worker.

This means government transparancy, instant-runoff voting, investigations and trials of government actors, paper ballots counted by hand, strong public-financing of elections, enforcement of enviromental laws, and aggressive long-term programs to address global climate change and dependency on fossil fuels, as well as other long-term threats and problems that needs to be taken care of by the agencies of government.

[ProSense]

42. Interesting.

This means recognizing as many rights as possible: gay, minority-ethnic, gun, drug, speech, unionization, privacy, religion, trial, jury, etc.

Yes, liberals strive for equality.

This means using the government to tilt the system so that you don't need to come from a wealthy family or have exceptional skills to be prosperous or at least comfortable: universal education up to and including doctorates, universal single-payer health care, and universal livable retirement pension.

There are only a handful of countries that provide access to a universal education up post graduate studies, and for the first time in history the US in on the verge of providing national health insurance, it's not single payer, but it's a huge step forward.

The rest of your post, it could be argued that Obama's agenda is striving to achieve many of those objectives, incluing transparency and inclusivity.

[krispos42]

59. The big corporations have spend decades and billions entrenching themselves

Politically, economically, and psychologically.

*sigh*

We're probably screwn. What needs to be done, taking on the robber barons/economic royalists/managerial aristocracy, probably won't happen until/unless it's a total collapse, and probably not even then. If the American people don't see the past 30 years of bad economics, only the little part that Obama presided over, then guess who gets the blame?

Obama and his fellow democrats. The "evil libruls". And the transnational, monopolistic, corporate media isn't going to do anything about it either.

[ProSense]

60. That's assuming that they will

"If the American people don't see the past 30 years of bad economics, only the little part that Obama presided over, then guess who gets the blame?"

If they see only the little part Obama presided over as good, which is highly likely in the long-term, then Obama will be viewed in an even more positive light.

[krispos42]

62. We're not making the structural changes we need to make.

Globalization isn't being reversed and the rich aren't going to be taxed at 60% anytime soon. We're not changing course, therefore it won't get better. :-(

[ProSense]

63. That's a bit pessimistic, don't you think? It'll get better. n/t

[lonestarnot]

46. What he/she said!

:P

[ipaint]

50. There hasn't been a new deal liberal in the white house for decades.

Neo liberalism rules the day. It has since Carter and deregulation of the airlines and trucking began in earnest the destruction of new deal regulations which protected the american worker.
Globalization, free market, little regulation, government services in private hands, private armies, charter schools/privatized education, nclb, merit pay for teachers, the bank deregulation, bailouts and wall streets representatives in the white house, the environment, cap and trade, universal private health insurance instead of healthcare, all being shaped by neo liberal pro private business policies. Useless war after war after war.

And for the last 30+ years all designed to dismantle the new deal and siphon wealth to the top. Obama, for all his eloquent language and good intentions is solidly in the neo liberal camp.

[TheKentuckian]

61. Obama was a comparatively liberal Senator and will be fairly liberal as US Presidents go

but he's not a liberal in the broader sense. This all depends on from where your are measuring from and in what context.

[harun]

70. Kucinich is a Liberal who believes in God, deal with it.

[billh58]

71. He also

sees UFOs.

[ProSense]

73. I have no problem with Democrats who believe in God.

In fact, I am one.