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deckerd Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 07:16 PM
Original message
Summary of Ongoing * Illegal Psy-Ops against CBS, Nation
Edited on Sat Sep-25-04 07:21 PM by deckerd
Cancelled 60 Minutes Investigation: "Rationale for War in Iraq"

CBS says it would be "inappropriate to air this close to the election."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x897666

Story was set to air Sept. 8 but was preempted by the National Guard Memos.

See, this is what disturbs me.

----------

"Forged" CBS Docs Were Planted by Miami Cuban Operative "Lisa Ramirez"

----------

...to Discredit Kerry and/or Burkett; Rather picked up story unexpectedly,
and accidentally took a bullet that was meant for Kerry.

Evidence now points to Bush Campaign adviser Karl Rove, who has illegally
possessed originals of all Bush Guard docs prior to their release, as the
ultimate source of the allegedly fabricated Bush memos.

The fabricator and/or courier for the versions given to CBS was a woman
"Lisa Ramirez" who is tied, throuh previous incidents (against Al Gore)
to an East Coast Republican operative and alleged sex fiend Roger Stone.

See below for more info on Stone (and his Cuban in-laws).

----------

Texan Bill Burkett, a possibly unstable ex-TANG whistleblower and patsy,
the man who gave CBS the memos, says he "lied" about the source because
the source told him to. She also told him to burn the originals,
and he did. "I thought to myself, wow, this is like some kind of sci-fi
movie," Burkett explained.

Burkett is now suing CBS for implying he forged the documents in an effort
to close the book on the story. The actual source of the docs, according
to the USA Today, was a hispanic woman named "Lisa Ramirez", who promised
to meet Burkett at a Houston trade show. When he arrived at the trade show,
an undidentified white man dropped them in his lap without explanation.

This is corroborated by a distant acquaintance of Burkett's who went with him
to do business at the livestock show.

It turns out that there was an expose on a similar incident by a "Lisa Ramirez"
who delivered forged video of Bush preparing for the 2000 debates in an effort
to throw off the Gore's campaign.

The ploy worked, and after Gore stammered in the first debate, it was revealed
that "Lisa Ramirez", assumed to be a Texas Democrat because she was hispanic--
may have been a Miami Cuban and a relative (or an impersonator) of Nydia Stone,
a member of a "prominent" Miami Cuban family -- who happens to be married
to Roger Stone, the #1 Republican dirty tricks operative and a childhood
friend of Bush campaign adviser Karl Rove.

This info about Ramirez was reported in 2000 years before she contacted Burkett.

Roger Stone Bio:

In addition to being related to Miami Cuban mobsters through marriage,

Stone personally oversaw the riot at the Miami election offices in 2000
via walkie talkie from across the street, successfully shutting down the
Dade county election recount after an election official was assaulted by
a crowd of Cuban men and white Congressional Aides from Washington,
changing the outcome of the race.

Nydia's relative Antonio Ramirez represented the Miami relatives of Elian Gonzalez.

In 2004, Stone coordinated the Al Sharpton campaign.

In 1996, as one of Dole's campaign coordinators, he and his wife Nydia
(possibly the infamous "Lisa Ramirez") were outed after publishing semi-nude
pictures of themselves in an advertisement for group sex in a Swingers magazine.

Stone denied it, stating that the photos were taken from (in his case)
a weightlifting competition and (in her case) a modeling career.

(Photos showed Roger Stone wearing nothing but a towel, with a black bar over his eyes,
and Nydia lying down in an alluring position wearing a dominatrix get-up.
They appeared in National Enquirer and led to Stone's resignation from the Dole camp.)

In the 1970's, Stone worked for Chuck Colson as part of the Committee to Re-Elect the
President (CREEP). He subsequently won the leadership of the Young Republicans (NYRC)
in the late '70s, in a race where he was denounced by his opponents for his Nixon work.

In the 1980s, Stone was Lee Atwater's boss at a time when Atwater was Rove's boss.

Stone was also portrayed by author Tom Wolfe during this period as "the epitome
of '80's greed in Washington" and the original model for the new breed of flashy
diamond-cufflinked corporate lobbyists who sprung up in the '80s.

Since 2000, Stone has used his contacts in the Interior Department as a reward for
his service in Florida to set up a profitable multi-million-dollar Indian Gambling
"consulting" business, which is now his primary occupation.

Stone and Karl Rove (W's Campaign Manager) have been friends since adolescence.

As a Young Republican in the 60's, during which period the NYRC represented the
hard core of the Republican Goldwaterites, Stone was a "protege" of Roy Cohn,
and exceptionally close to several other prominent closeted proteges of Cohn
who have since died of AIDS. This may explain why Stone's wife prefers
"muscular jocks and well-built Marine types", according to the 1996 ad.

Stone currently lives in Manhattan, where the New York POST first reported gossip
in Republican circles early THIS WEEK, that Stone was the source of the CBS docs
and possibly forged them himself (he runs campaign ops out of a graphics company.)

After Stone replied with a "no comment", the Democratic National Committee risked
an enormous bluff by publically issuing a press release the same day accusing Stone
of forging the CBS Guard Docs. Tellingly, there was no response.

GOP response, which had been to confront Dems on nightly news shows all week
about the source of the CBS "forged by the Kerry campaign" docs, was silence.

On top of that, all scheduled GOP campaign and talk-show appearances were canceled
for the evening and replaced with a 10 PM secret strategy session.

Since then, GOP and talking heads have been SILENT on who forged the CBS docs...
instead they're directing their efforts towards an e-mail campaign to force
Dan Rather to step down from CBS and force 60 Minutes to cease any further
reportage critical of Bush. This campaign is had marked progress this week as
talk show hosts now openly saying Rather may be forced to resign.

No rebuttal to the Stone allegation has been issued and no mention of
"Lisa Ramirez of Houston's" role in the 2000 Debates, or Stone's role
in the 2000 election has been made in the media.

---------

W's #1 Campaign Adviser Karl Rove, described as "Bush's Brain" by insiders,
has a long history of fabricating documents that make his candidate look bad,
in an effort to discredit his opponent's allegations by revealing the forgery.

And also to discredit the source from revealing future, more damaging allegations.

In debate class, it's known as "poisoning the well". Karl Rove, a Texan, even has
his own word for it: "Ratfucking" the opponent (or media friendly to the opponent).

In fact, the subject of this week's CANCELED 60 Mins story is presumed to
be just such a document, a possibly forged memo describing whether or not
Iraq was trying to smuggle "yellowcake" uranium out of Africa.

(Iraq already had 900,000 pounds of yellowcake on hand, "legally" from before the Gulf War.)

The "yellowcake memo" was used to discredit U.S. diplomat Joseph Wilson, whose
wife was "outed" as a CIA NOC in retaliation for Wilson coming out against the
infamous "13 words" about "yellowcake" in the Bush declaration of war.

Columnist Robert Novak, who did the "outing" at the request of an unnamed source
high in the Bush administration, later justified it "against the advice of my attorney"
by declaring, in print, that Valerie Plame's husband was: a "known Democratic activist"
who should never have been appointed to the Niger mission -- and therefore Plame
"deserved" to be outed as a CIA agent in charge of nonproliferation.

An FBI investigation of senior administration staffers is ongoing. Outing a CIA NOC
is considered an act of treason, and, unusually for a case involving unnamed source,
several journalists were coerced by the FBI into providing information on who contacted
them and why. Four or five journalists in addition to Novak were told Plame's identity.
FBI is now interviewing senior aides to Cheney and (!) campaign adviser Karl Rove.
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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is the information I saw throughout democratic underground
Most of the stuff wasn't collected by me. Some was but all of it was part of the democratic underground post that I just linked all the information together. I think this explained a lot of it. Plus It was just easier for me to type a link then recopy everything that I was seeing at all the other threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=897089&mesg_id=897089&page=
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deckerd Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Pls Fwd my Post to MM + Red State Undecideds--Make The Pig-F*ckers Deny It
(n/t)
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. As to the Ramirez woman
I must have missed that somewhere. Tried to google... but came up with this:

CJRC Staff


Lisa Ramirez, Project Assistant
Lisa Ysela Ramirez is the project assistant for the Texas Association of Regional Councils' Criminal Justice Resource Center. Lisa has worked with the Criminal Justice Division of the Governor's Office as an administrative technician in the victims' unit. She has also worked at the University of Texas at Austin under Dr. Eric Stice, researching the etiology of eating disorders. Lisa has submitted research findings for publication as well as attended the Academy for Eating Disorders (AED) conference in Boston as a guest undergraduate presenter.

Lisa graduated in May 2002 from the University of Texas at Austin with a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology.

Lisa can be reached at TARC's Criminal Justice Resource Center at (512) 472-9070, or via e-mail at lisa@txregionalcouncil.org.

http://www.txregionalcouncil.org/cjrc/news/lisa.htm
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deckerd Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. There are 1000s of Lisa Ramirez's. Look to Gore incident to find which one
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The person indicted for "tapegate 2000" was Yvette Lozano
I saw no Lisa ramirez in google searches
Someone leaking false trails?
Seems to be a trend...

It did remind me that Mark McKinnon was Rove's counterpart in the '86 "Bugging" only to be a happy mamber of team Bush in 2000, and it was his assistant Lazano who was sent to Post Office to mail "pants?" when she was really (?) mailing the video...

<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/lozano010306.html>
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deckerd Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. How do we know it's not the same woman?
I am not leaking false trails. I am just trying to summarize what's been corroborated here on DU. I know the Gore incident has been corroborated, but apparently a DIFFERENT Cuban woman from Houston was involved. Or the same woman with a different name... fancy that.

Accounts I read of the "tapegate" incident (in TNR, I think...AFAIR???)
focused like a laser on how both sides assumed Gore would go for it because the information was provided by a Hispanic woman, assumed to be a Democratic constituency, when in fact it turned out to be a CUBAN REPUBLICAN woman, and IIANM related to Nydia Stone specifically.

Do you really believe my original post was off-base or deliberately inaccurate or misleading?? If so, it should be deleted. I am serious.

Like Burkett, I can be naive at times. I assumed this was all corroborated info posted here on DU. I assumed it was up to us bloggers, up to and including some high-ranking veterans here, to get to the bottom of this in a factual manner before something terrible happens (a news outlet permanently silenced, a nation in thrall of one party, a country taken to war again) thanks to this highly ILLEGAL dirty trick.

Or do you believe a Dem did this? I do not. Even if we're all wrong if Burkett himself did it and is just lying to us, HOW does it hurt us to find that out, when the alternative is to remain ignorant of one of the greatest campaign crimes since God-knows-when?

Am I off-base here? Anyone?
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. In these matters, accuracy is important
Edited on Sun Sep-26-04 12:29 AM by Calico_Janitor
I don't mean to say that YOU are creating false trails, sorry if it sounded so.
More like- False trails are often a common danger in dirty tricks and covert ops research. Whether deliberate or accidental, or even through lazy copy/paste, false info poisons the memepool and muddies the tracks. It makes it harder for fellow researchers to keep the facts straight.

In looking into these things, methodology matters!

To ask "How do we know it's not the same woman?" is just the wrong way to ask the question. (akin to "How do we know aliens didn't kill JFK, ?")
The obvious answer would be to have Burkett visually ID ms. Ramirez, if he ever saw her. As I recall the story, he never saw her, but was approached by a man who handed the package to him. One would have to track down ms. Lozano and see where she was on X date, etc. Much better to check phone records to see where the calls to Burkett were from, rather than start with suspect, then spend time "proving they were not the same/were the same" as a pre-conceived suspect.
So that original question may be impossible to answer, as well as being secondary conjecture. This method is the bane of much "Conspiracy research" which gives tin-foil accusations some credence.
I hope that I have been clear on difference of method.
I've been at this kind of thing a long time, and always try to be careful...

The method I try to follow requires me to try to keep the info as straight as possible each step of the way. I did not mean to question your motives.
Even Lisa vs. Lucy is an important slipup, much less spreading a meme that can easily be debunked through a simple google.
Or leaking doctored documents to be later debunked, which might be what happened to CBS. That is a part of the mess already, as you know.

As you say in your post, it'd be good to get to bottom of this in a factual matter, if possible. There may not be time for that. There are two tracks to this--one is TRUTH, which takes time, often years to unravel....second is MEMEWAR, which is what they wage when they do these tricks. That requires quick parrying and response to dull the effectiveness of the trick. So....
First importance is to get the meme out that it would fit the MO of Rove and Stone et al as the perpetrators of YET ANOTHER in a series of DIRTY TRICKS as this moves the media narrative away from where THEY are trying to put it, namely into the Kerry campaign.
This is not to feed incorrect answers as the right wing does, but to encourage the RIGHT QUESTIONS.
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deckerd Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I Agree with you completely; I suggested someone from DU Interview Burkett
Edited on Sun Sep-26-04 03:42 AM by deckerd
and establish (through observation of Burkett and requesting him personally and privately for phone records to assist a credentialed Dem activist in finding the truth about whether the source was a Republican or Democrat -- without respect to the nature/authenticity of the documents themselves.)

This information would not be disclosed unless it led somewhere.

For those with access to the kind of Dem circles needed to deal with Burkett, there's no sense in waiting.

In the meantime there are a couple pieces of the puzzle we can fill at the public level.

1. Yvette Solano. If "rumors" of Stone's MO prompt DNC to threaten and investigate, same should apply here. A feint should be enough to determine whether we are running hot or cold, as in the case of the DNC press release directed at Stone. (no rebuttal issued, silence on who gave CBS the momos, "let's all get back to Iraq" -- hmm, maybe the CBS issue is helping us, not hurting us!)

2. Craft a less blatantly accusatory, more concise press release than I have done relating Stone to a long string of alleged misdeeds according to solid media accounts, including the CBS Docs via NY Post/DNC press release and the Solano/Ramirez comparison, as such. DU it to the media.

3. Establish in sweeping generalities that Rove loves to plant documents on his opponents to pre-empt damaging attacks on his candidate; proceed from there to the specific, rather than vice versa.

4. Determine what pseudonym if any was used by Solano *in 2000*. This is important.

5. Determine if an actual Lisa (Lucy?) Ramirez is related to / works for Roger and Nydia Stone. This is also important.

If so, get indy media types to interview this Ramirez, only slightly less aggressively than Solano. Invite the mass media along by promising a Michael Moore scene of boorish liberals harrassing a poor hispanic woman. Viewers or readers lured by the prospect of a liberal-media scandal will quickly make the connection based on the name alone, on the "if there's smoke there's fire" principle, and remember that part afterward. Impt to establish that Ramirez is, in fact, a Republican. (Many people ASSUMED Solano must be a Democrat because she was Hispanic.)

These 5 options are all media warfare, not genuine research which
must proceed from Burkett and has no value unless it proves anything.
I'd suggest someone akin to Walt Starr focus on the research/phone records...
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Was that first name Lisa or was it Lucy.
I remember reading "Lucy Ramirez" here on DU a few days ago.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Looks like it was "Lucy"
after all. That was a little easier to do the googlesearch. Thanks! :)
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. He "burned the orginials" - !!!??? - (the CBS docs)
Edited on Sat Sep-25-04 07:55 PM by nu_duer
I've been offline for a few days, but I have not read, nor heard, nor seen this info anywhere before now.

from your post:
----------
Texan Bill Burkett, a possibly unstable ex-TANG whistleblower and patsy,
the man who gave CBS the memos, says he "lied" about the source because
the source told him to. She also told him to burn the originals,
and he did. "I thought to myself, wow, this is like some kind of sci-fi
movie," Burkett explained.
--------------

With all the focus on the CBS piece, WHY would this not be a major headline?

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deckerd Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Because the RW media no longer wants to find out who the real source is.
Edited on Sat Sep-25-04 09:31 PM by deckerd
Didn't you get the memo? It went out the same night the DNC officially
alleged that Stone was responsible for leaking the CBS Memos to Burkett

-- thru this Lisa Ramirez woman (who we've heard of before -- she did
the same thing to Gore. Same M/O)

As for Burkett's claims, he himself said so. Lest anyone think otherwise, everything in my original post is factually verified by journalistic sources posted here on DU dating back years (USA Today, Salon, etc.)

Burkett is a naive and bitter man who allowed himself to be played patsy
in his desire to put one over on Shrub.

It is the CLASSIC NIGERIAN Scam. Use the patsy's guilt and/or willingness
to commit fraud against him.

I would not be surprised if Ramirez, if she exists, comes from a long line of grifters.
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Have a link to the ramirez/Gore tape story??
I can't find one...

Thanks in advance, eh?
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deckerd Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. duplicate post
Edited on Sat Sep-25-04 11:02 PM by deckerd
self-delete
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deckerd Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I do not have the cites for the summary account posted above...
They are archived on DU.

Apparently the woman's name was Yvette Lozano in the Gore tape incident.

It would be interesting to learn what, if any, pseudonym she used, where she hailed from and where she was actually from. I DO remember she was a Cuban Republican who portrayed herself to Gore's people as a Houston-based?? whistleblower.

Anyone care to respond to this thread and back up people's questions with more information? I don't have archives access and I simply tried to summarize what other people have cited.

Anybody?
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bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. I thought it was "Lucy" not "Lisa"...
did I miss something today? I've only been on a couple of times.
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Yes, Lucy is correct.
Edited on Sat Sep-25-04 11:50 PM by Calico_Janitor
One would not expect professional operatives to use a real name, eh?
Unless that in itself was a false trail, or...

that said--

Occasionally, these operatives may slip up through arrogance/laziness, or "brand pride", leaving a mark so those in the know would appreciate their handiwork. Often perps brag of their deeds, or leave clues, like a bad crime novel.

Such webs they weave.
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