Question, especially for those who saw Kerry on Good Morning America

[Sparkly]

Kerry is quoted as saying:

"We should not have gone into Iraq knowing today what we know," Kerry told ABC. "Knowing there was no imminent threat to America, knowing there were no weapons of mass destruction, knowing there was no connection between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein, I would not have voted to support war."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=703&e=4&u=/ap/20040929/ap_on_el_pr/kerry

Was there more context for this? Did he say he'd changed his mind from his earlier answer that he would still have voted for IWR without WMDs? Was he asked?

[MARALE]

1. What he has always said is

That he would have voted to give the pResident authority to use war as a final threat to Iraq, but if he knew then what he knows now, if he was president he would not have gone to war. He did not vote for the war, just for the pResident to have the say in whether we could go to war Quickly as a threat to Saddam to get the information that we needed.

[Demit]

2. "GOING into Iraq" is different from "the AUTHORITY to go in"--

I curse the day Kerry made this distinction--a very REAL distinction, btw--without making it clearer.

He still would've VOTED TO GIVE THE PRESIDENT THE AUTHORITY. Kerry's vote was intended to give the president a hammer, something to have in his back pocket.

[Booster]

26. IMO, Kerry should use the analogy that it's like sending

your union negotiators to negotiate a new contract. You have to give them a strike vote or they have no power. You really don't want them to use it, but they have to have it or you're all sunk.

[Boredtodeath]

3. No, no, no

Diane Sawyer specifically asked him (with incredulity and eybrows raised) several outraged questions in a follow up to Kerry's answer that the war in Iraq was being handled badly.

Her questions were basically "so you're saying the world is not better off without Saddam?" and "we should have left Saddam in power?" and "we shouldn't have deposed Saddam?" in rapid succession, with body language saying "WHAAAAAAAAAT? The war was WRONG? How DARE YOU!"

[Poiuyt]

5. Bush supporters feel that Saddam was worse than the devil

Bush/Rove have gotten people to believe that removing Saddam was the most important event in the history of mankind. Never mind the fact that he wasn't bothering us or anyone of his neighbors.

[oldsneakers]

7. I noticed Diane Sawyer sarcasm too

Funny how some interviewers suddenly decide to become tough on Kerry and softball *. I still haven't forgotten how that asshole Charlie Gibson ganged up on Kerry about those stupid medals.

[walkon]

4. I have to ask.

What do we know now that we didn't know then? Except for the POSSIBILITY of WMD's (and there were inspectors on the ground) what compelled Kerry (or any other Democrat) to vote YES then but now say they would have voted differently had they only known what they know now?

[sandnsea]

6. Two different scenarios

Dealing with the situation in Iraq, WMD's & disarmament, no-fly zones, sanctions hurting the people; the entire situation fueling the anger in the ME. Situation one, needed to be dealt with. Inspections absolutely necessary to move in any direction at all. Therefore, Kerry voted yes on IWR.

Situation two. Iraqi threat. Kerry has repeatedly said we should have continued with inspections, etc., there was no threat necessary to justify war in March 2003. He would not have gone to war.

Gads.

[JPJones]

8. Please people, authorization is not the same as doing it

I'm authorized to buy a $5000 gold necklace by my credit card company. Doing so would be stupid.

[goodhue]

9. That is much too subtle a distinction for political discourse.

Also, your credit card analogy is not particularly persuasive.

Try another real world example. Last night at my local party unit central committee meeting we authorized spending up to a certain dollar amount on sample ballots to supplement the efforts of the coordinated campaign. The vote was taken after some debate as to the possible necessity of additional funds for additional sample ballots. If after the election some protest the design and/or execution of the additional sample ballots, how stupid would it be for some committee members to carp that they supported sample ballots, just not those sample ballots because the execution was all wrong. They released any right to complain upon authorizing the expenditure.

Authoritization to use a credit card is hardly the same as authority granted by a deliberative legislative body.

[Sparkly]

10. I know, but I'm asking about his answer re: the authorization

Was this a different question than the one he was asked a month or so ago, when he said "Yes" he'd have voted for the IWR.

Here he seems to be saying "No" he wouldn't have voted for IWR.

There must be a difference here, in what he was saying or what was asked.

[mzmolly]

18. NO that's NOT what he's saying. Your quote is WRONG.

"We should not have gone to war knowing the information that we know today," Kerry told ABC. "Knowing there was no imminent threat to America, knowing there were no weapons of mass destruction, knowing there was no connection of Saddam Hussein to Al Qaida, I would not have gone to war. That's plain and simple."

I would not have GONE to war ...

Kerry has maintained all along the the President abused his authority, nothing he says now contradicts that.

[Sparkly]

22. Molly, see #17 and #19.... It's not MY quote, it's the AP's

I did a direct cut/paste. They changed it.

[magnolia]

11. I liked what someone said....

...on this board a few days ago: authority versus going to war is like Kerry gave Bush the car keys, but Bush crashed the car.

[Sparkly]

12. Agree, but here he's talking about "voting to support war"

Was he talking about the IWR? Previously he'd said he would still have given Chimp the car keys despite no WMDs because it's the right authority for a president to have.

Is he here saying he would not have given him the car keys? Or was he talking about the appropriations bill rather than the IWR? Or something else?

I'm just trying to understand the context before I start hearing more "flip-flop" screeching.

[mzmolly]

16. Your quote is wrong, either the AP changed their story or you

muddled the quote.

[Sparkly]

19. Molly, please see my post #17 -- the AP changed the quote!!

This is why I was so confused and concerned -- earlier it was exactly as I posted: "voted to support war." VERY different from "I would not have gone to war."

Who fed the AP a false quote, and how many other outlets have published it the wrong way, to be endlessly quoted by others as a flip-flop?! How did this happen?

[mzmolly]

29. I am concerned about the greater meaning of this. We should

contact the campaign.

I know YOU didn't change the quote. :hi:

[gauguin57]

13. Diane worked for Richard Nixon.

She's having flashbacks of defending a criminal president.

[Fleshdancer]

15. I was just about to post this very point

Why would anyone expect a fair interview from this woman?

[mzmolly]

14. Why are you changing the quote!?

Actual quote:

"We should not have gone to war knowing the information that we know today," Kerry told ABC. "Knowing there was no imminent threat to America, knowing there were no weapons of mass destruction, knowing there was no connection of Saddam Hussein to Al Qaida, I would not have gone to war. That's plain and simple."

Your quote is wrong. This position is consistant with what he's said before.

[Sparkly]

17. OMIGOD!!!!

I did a direct cut/paste from the article I linked.

I just went back to it and it's exactly as you have it.

WTF?!!

I SWEAR I did not change the quote in my original post, but cut/pasted it. This is how they had it up earlier. I don't know what happened!!

[mzmolly]

21. They probably did it on purpose!

Sorry Sparky, I trust that your correct. Imagine the # of people who saw the wrong quote. :grr:

[Sparkly]

23. Exactly -- Did it go through the wires that way?

Have newspapers picked up the false quote?

Where did they get that quote?

Unbelievable.

:wtf:

[Sparkly]

25. Here's one that picked up the false quote

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/US_Elections/0,,2-10-1665_1596994,00.html

Quick -- just so you all don't think I'm making this up!!

[mzmolly]

28. OMG. Who the hell do we call about this!

:(

[mzmolly]

30. I wonder, that's a good question.

:shrug:

[MallRat]

20. AAAAUUUGGGHH!!! DON'T FALL FOR THE RW SPIN!!!!

Kerry has ALWAYS said that knowing what knows now:

1. He WOULD vote to give authority to the President.
2. He WOULD NOT have gone into Iraq.

THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.
HE HAS ALWAYS SAID THIS.
HIS POSITION HAS NEVER WAVERED ON THIS.

It is DESPERATELY important that voters understand this distinction, because Bush and the media machine are doing everything they can to blur this distinction to paint Kerry as a flip-flopper.

They've been so effective in their lie campaign, that even many Democrats have been taken in by the spin. DON'T FALL FOR IT.

-MR

[LittleClarkie]

27. The Republicans are having such a gay ol' time with this

Making it look like Kerry is changing daily.

How much of a nut woud Kerry have to be to keep flipping daily in full view of the press and the American people.

When people finally get what Kerry was saying, and if they actually already have figured it out, how stupid do the Republicans look.

Kerry almost has to state both positions when he's asked this question so people can see both.

"Let me make this perfectly clear. Yes, I would give Bush the authority to do what needed to be done, even going to war as a last resort. Even knowing what we know now, I would still vote to give a president the authority to do his job effectively.

Would I have used the power the way Bush used it. No, I wouldn't. The president didn't use war as a last resort. And he wasn't honest with us about WMDs, or about gathering a coalition first, or sending enough of our troops to get the job done."

[Minimus]

24. another issue I never hear discussed

Kerry was voting to give the president AUTHORITY to go to war, this would be the same AUTHORITY that Kerry would want when he is President if, god forbid, he had to make the decision to go to war. He is a seasoned politician and knows that it was necessary to give the AUTHORITY just in case he would ever have to ask for the AUTHORITY himself someday.