Dean gets boost at crucial time (please see article for contradiction)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

CONCORD, N.H. -- Howard Dean reveled yesterday in the endorsement of a top Iowa Democrat, a needed boost for a presidential campaign that finds itself reacting to news and no longer setting the political agenda as the voting in Iowa and New Hampshire creeps closer.

snip

"I don't like calling other candidates `sleazy' or any of that kind of stuff. I think that kind of stuff goes over the line."

On Thursday, Dean's campaign manager, Joe Trippi, sent a letter to Gephardt's campaign addressing its allegation that Dean may be trying to get out-of-state residents to participate in the caucuses.

"Sleazy tactics like yours are exactly the reason that people have stopped participating in the political process," Trippi wrote.

It seems Howard Dean does not like the tactics his own campaign manager used and this point wasn't lost on the author of the article. Should Dean, therefore, apologize or RETRACT Trippi's statements?


http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/dean/articles/2004/01/10/dean_gets_boost_at_crucial_time/

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. OK now I am laughing

Frame an issue civilly in this forum and it gets ignored...what's THAT tell ya'll?

[Cheswick2.0]

32. Was there something civil about this post?

This is more nit picking post-bait, it does nothing to improve the "tone of the debate" on this forum.

It is interesting that you have nothing to say about Gephardt insinuating that Democrats from other states would come and illegally vote in the caucus. That was a smear not only to Dean but to all of the people who are campaigning in other states at their own expense because they believe in what they are doing. It was an inexcusable innuendo and you want to debate over the use of the word sleaze by two different people in a campaign?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. It's horrible, unbelieveable, but most importantly

it's not too late.

Please everyone, it was fun while it lasted but please reconsider your support for this man.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. I don't think it's the end of the world but Dean needs to do some

"soul searching"

Calling tactics sleazy while admonishing the word indicates to me that Howard Dean is creating acrimony within the party that HE MAY NOT BE ABLE to overcome comes the primary.

If I look at this board, I wonder will he be able to unify once the general comes around.

Unfortunately, I wonder about all candidates where this is concerned.

[chimpymustgo]

4. It's so TYPICAL. Dean talks out of every corner of his mouth.

I keep shaking my head in disbelief that so many people refuse to acknowledge this man's flip-flops, waffles, say-anything style of politics.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

5. "every"?

well most of us have only have 2 but Dean seems to have a good number more.

[blm]

9. And it appears Dean's mouth has more than 2 corners.

I have never seen a Dem who campaigned more in the Rethuglican demagogic, deceptive style than Dean.

It always kept me from sympathizing with the GOP and it will keep me from sympathizing with Dean.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

14. They are truly as bad as the dirty tricksters from the Nixon campaign

They are giving a black eye to the Dem Party. We have stooped to the level of the Republicans in many ways - mainly thanks to DeanCo. What has happened to our Party? Makes me ashamed.

[HFishbine]

24. Let's see (veracity check)

Nixon campaign:

- Burglarized Democratic National Headquarters
- Conspired to cover up the break in
- Accepted illegal campaign contributions
- Forged literature on opponent's campaign letterhead
- Hired Karl Rove

And here we have a Clark campaign staffer saying that "DeanCo" are "truly as bad." This notion either expresses a gigantic ignorance of history or partisan myopia above all shame. I'm not sure which.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

28. They've been accused of election fraud, also if they truly did call people

to tell them they were not eligible to vote that is also election fruad. You can spend time in prison for that...

[HFishbine]

29. That's it?

You assert that the Dean campaing is "truly" as bad as the feloneous Nixon campaign and you back it up with an unsubstantiated and unspecified allegation of election fraud? Where? When? What?

I challenge you to either provide proof that your comparison of the Dean campaign to the Nixon campaign has some substantial merit, or to apologize.

[MuseRider]

7. Good reason for concern.

I do not think he will be able to unify. I did until the last few weeks but now it has become an issue of ethics and trust. We already have someone in the office with those issues. Dean supporters, I am in no way comparing them or saying they are the same, just the fact that Dean may now be seen by too many as having these problems to unify this country, let alone the party. We shall see.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

20. gag check out the email I just got from some Dean people. Ignores Kucinich

Among other things - it quotes some editorial that stated that Dean is the ONLY candidate who was against the war from the beginning...


You have shown your support for Howard Dean so thought you would like to see this editorial by Bill Maxwell (see bio below) in the St. Petersburg Times.

Support flows to the guy with a backbone
By BILL MAXWELL, Times Staff Writer
Published January 7, 2004

-snip-

But as the caucuses draw near, the Democrats are doing what they do best: cannibalizing one another, especially the front-runner.

And why do they cannibalize one another? Because individually, with rare exceptions, most of those with serious campaigns have been spooked by Bush and are not strongly supporting Democratic issues and programs. Currently, Howard Dean is the one Democrat - with a realistic chance of unseating Bush - who clearly stands for something and is unafraid of Bush.

-snip-

Democrats were beaten during the last mid-term elections in part because they did not stand for anything and because they did not stand up to Bush. They ran like scalded dogs from the party label, and they went into hiding when confronted with the dreaded "L" word, liberalism.

-snip-

Dean is the only candidate who publicly opposed the Iraq war in the beginning and who still has the courage of his conviction.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

16. Sometimes I wonder if we would just be better off if he just took his

marbles and went home. He can also take all the supporters who support him only - and who will vote for no-one else with him. Do we really need this? Do we want to go through this in 2008 again?

This man is willing to tear down this Party in order to get the nomination. I truly am beginning to fear what would happen if he got in. He, of course, would not be as bad as Bush - but not a whole lot better....

[HFishbine]

31. Takes a lot of nerve

to tell a life-long democrat to take a walk. I've had food in the freezer longer than Clark has been a "democrat."

[Cheswick2.0]

33. soul searching over Trippi using the word sleaze

to discribe sleaze?

[Bread and Circus]

6. I agree, Trippi and Dean are out of control.

[Tatiana]

17. Time is running out, however.

He's got strong support. I don't know if it can be overcome. If it can't, I think we just need to hope he can tone it down and stick to Dem talking points in a general election.

[ryharrin]

8. I think this is blown out of porportion.

It seems like he just wasn't aware of Trippi's statement. They should have a talk, and get this straightened out. I do say that this will be upsetting if nothing gets done about this.

[cally]

10. For me, the whining to MacAuliffe

just angered me. I don't think he knows what he is doing, though. He has attacked all Dems, the party, Gore, Clinton. Then when he is attacked he cries to the Dem party to stop it. I think that alone will be used over and over against him.

I think part of Dean's appeal is the recognition that he will fight back and play in the gutter with Bush. He'll stand up and do what it takes to win. I don't like what he has done to Dems and is one reason I am not a supporter. I think he alienated too many of us. Dems are probably more angry with Bush so most of the party activists may support the nominee. I just wonder how many will if he is the President.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

22. Kerry, Clark and Kucinich would also stand up to him....

n/t

[UnityDem]

11. This is all background noise

that the general public doesn't care about.
Whomever we nominate as our nominee will have tremendous support because of the utter disdain for BushCo.
November will be a referendum on 4 more years of Bush - our nominee will be demonized by RoveCo no matter what. The question will be/is it better to keep the Devil you know (Bush) or the one that the Repubs try to portray in our nominee.
If Dean is our nominee, he and his campaign sure must be learning a lot through all of this process. At least, you'd hope so.

[MuseRider]

12. We would certainly

benefit having a candidate that we could prove was not what Rove says they are. Anyone who listens will hear us, of course we must hope that enough will listen. All will be smeared but Dean is going to be very hard to prove if he does not settle down a bit. All that is accomlished by being like them is to make it more difficult to prove you are better.

[blm]

13. Good point.

.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

27. Dean has some bad stuff in his record.....

There are some "strange" dealings that he's had with judges (he's been accused of cronyism and the judges he's appointed have been accused of corruption) and he's being accused of assisting in a police cover-up of a shooting. He also had some strange dealings with insurance companies. I'm going to try to post it all in the next few days.

In addition, a lot of the things that we would normally be able to use against Bush in the General - we can't because Dean has the same corporate ties in his background (Enron, Halliburton, cutting Medicare/Social Security, the initial money he earned in his campaign was mainly from energy companies, evading the draft, cutting programs/cutting the budget).

[uhhuh]

35. Don't you feel a little dirty?

Displaying your handle and viciously attacking the candidate that YOUR president supports?
I think that you should re-register as a show of how much you disdain your president's decision making abilty.
This is not meant as an attack, but I can't understand how you can present a handle like that and feel that Dean is such a bad candidate. If it was me, I would have to question my commitment to someone like Gore, who obviously has made such a poor choice.

[Clark4VotingRights]

36. Yup MuseRider.

...

[HFishbine]

15. Should Dean apologize?

Well, first let's look at what's on the table:

Dean: "I don't like calling other candidates `sleazy'"

Did Trippi call another candidate sleazy?

No.

End of story.

[bitchkitty]

18. What a stupid non-issue.

It breaks my heart when Democrats act like this. What a stupid, stupid, stupid non-issue.

[arewethereyet]

23. the preponderance of this sort of thing makes it an issue

When your neighbor throws one beercan out his window and doesn't pick it up later its no big deal.

When he throws one out every day and two on Saturday night, after a while as the pile begins to grow, it does become a problem.

[bitchkitty]

26. It's not an issue -

and the preponderance of right wing spin doesn't make it so.

[Lobo_13]

19. It looks to me like

he said he doesn't like to call democrats sleazy.

Doesn't say that he wouldn't do it if warranted.

[edzontar]

21. This is so obviosuly not an issue and incorrect on points

That it merits no further comment.

[Crewleader]

25. I think Dean will loose alot of support

with all the things he says in the past and present, he's not speaking future...he doesn't have the vision this country needs.

I have no respect of his campaign manager's tactics...those fliers on the General and the flip flop Dean has on issues like the middle class tax cut and touching the payroll tax would be only hurting social security. We don't need that or want it and more and more will not want Dean for President.

Thanks for the post NSMA...:hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. The Dean campaign

is cutting off it's nose to spite it's face. I can't WAIT to see which campaign the supporters of Gephardt, Kucinich and Kerry camps go to when they drop out, if they drop out.. I don't remember Dean bashing Edwards, CMB or Al Sharpton.

Their supporters will go SOMEWHERE and I highly doubt it will be to the Dean camp. He's being really stooopid here. Keep it up Howard! Keep burning those bridges!

Burn Baby Burn!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

34. They'll rush to Clark, of course!

Delusional.

[snyttri]

37. An unshakeable dishonesty theme may arise from continual

contradictions, even when spoken through Trippi.

[HFishbine]

38. Kick (nt)

[Mairead]

39. Dean stands for nothing besides his own election, folks. That's bad.

I'm not making that up. Look at his website. Try to find policies that would result in substantive change ('more of the same' doesn't count).

What kind of people want more of the same thing we're getting now!?! Not Democrats! Not Greens! Not Socialists! Not leftists of any kind.

Republicans, that's who!

Must we actually be flushed down the crapper before people wake up?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

read the NewYorker article

it's an eye opener into his ego.

[Capn Sunshine]

41. Are you sure you weren't on a Clark website?

They resemble Dean's greatly down to the slogans.
Yes I HAVE been to the website, and I don't know where YOU looked but those policies are pretty much night and day when compared to the coup in chiefs administration.
VERY bogus argument.

[Mairead]

42. Yes, I'm quite sure.

Perhaps you could give us chapter and verse about those policies of Dean's that are 'night and day' different to Smirk's?

Because he's not planning on reducing Smirk's war-industry budget.

His plan for health care can be summarised as 'more of the same'.

He's not planning to end or even reduce the vicious, destabilising drugs war.

He's planning on continuing Smirk's policy of leaving our kids over in Iraq to kill and be killed -- all for extra profits for the wealthy-elite few!

Queers are going to remain second-class citizens along with Black and Brown people.



So just what are those 'night and day' differences, exactly?

[stickdog]

40. Calling candidates sleazy = bad

Falsely accusing another campaign of cheating = a sleazy tactic.

What is the contradiction?