The debate was a draw. Edwards won anyway.

[ThatPoetGuy]

Cheney's lies will be hit hard, over the next few days, starting with the inconsequential -- about never having met Edwards before.

And Edwards was introduced to the general electorate tonight; perhaps he's not the golden boy I was hoping, but he's going to go over well.

He's going to appeal to southerners, they heard him speak and thought, "he's one of us."

He's going to appeal to women.

I think it's good he wasn't more aggressive. No one who watched the debate came away hating him.

The litany of Cheney's votes is going to be repeated -- he voted against Martin Luther King Day, voted against Meals on Wheels for seniors.

The debate may have been a draw, but I feel confident it's going to bump us in the polls.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[loveable liberal]

3. love the pic....hehehehehheee

[LynnTheDem]

5. We progressives must also march in lockstep now???

I'm getting very tired and very disillusioned about progressives lately; anytime anyone DARES speak their own opinions on this board that don't happen to be exactly in lockstep, they get slammed.

I hate that in rightwingnuts.

I hate that in freepers.

And I especially hate it in so-called progressives.

[951]

8. *yawn*

The difference between us and the freepers we stick behind the facts freepers don't but you can come to your own conclusions meanwhile look at this CNN poll ( http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/13670.exclude.html ) and cry your little eyes out.


Edit: :P Thanks liberal this is the first time I've used photoshop :D

[LynnTheDem]

10. Just as rude...

as the freeping rightwingnuts, too.

[Guaranteed]

15. Try it for four weeks. nt

[lefador]

16. The building is on fire...

... but you cry me a river because the fireman yelled to get out in a mean voice and he forgot to say please.

Constructive criticism is more than welcome, and that is something that separates us from the freepers. Whining is just that, no matter how much you try to spin it.

Oh, and you are more than free to speak your own opinions, and other people are also free to tell you what they think of those opinions. Freedom of speech is a bitch 'cuz it goes both ways dude.

You are more than free to whine, I am also free to call you a whiner.
Grow a pair, we are not in Kansas anymore sweetheart.

[LynnTheDem]

18. Someone posted their OWN OPINION.

That's NOT WHINING. That's posting their OWN OPINION.

And I'm not bloody whining, I'm PISSED OFF with the so-called "progressives" acting just like freeping bloody rightwingnuts, demanding everyone march in lockstep.

I've been persecuted and stalked for 2 bloody years now by a pack of rabid rightwingnuts for my DARING to speak MY OWN BLOODY OPINIONS. I know EXACTLY what it's like to be slammed for daring to speak your OWN OPINIONS.

And as bad as it is when the bloody rightwingnuts do it, it's FAR WORSE to see this same shit rude behaviour from so-called progressives.

I live in Texas.

I lived through my US soldier husband being in Iraq for 15 months.

I STILL live with rightwingnut lunatics stalking me.

So to you I say COME HERE and tell me to "GROW A PAIR".

COME HERE and call me "SWEETHEART".

And I'll knock your rude rightwingnut-style arse into the middle of next bloody month.

[lefador]

25. It is still whining

You just gave a classic example of a whine. There are ZERO constructive comments in your posts, OK? All you have done in this thread is BITCH and MOAN.

As I said: You are free to write what you want, OK? No one is stopping you from doing so. I am also free to tell you what I think about what you just wrote. If you are so freaking "liberal" you should at least get that simple point.

Funny how you just called me a rude rightwingnut ass because I dared disagreeing with you, and you went on to physically threaten me because of my opinions. Whoah.... talking about pot calling the kettle!

And although I am a pacifist, I am an ex-Ranger and I too have seen my share of armed conflict first hand, I would not recommend any sort of physical threats on my persona.

Constructive comments is what we need now, whining and moaning will get us nowhere. Unity and lockstep are two very different things, no matter how you try to spin it.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. cut the bullshit is constructive criticism?

LOL!

Here is some constructive criticism for you............ cut the bullshit.

[secular_warrior]

17. I agree. If I think Edwards lost -- and I do -- I will say so.

What is supposed to separate us from "them" is the fact that we believe in discussing our opinions and ideas in an open fashion. Once we lose that, we may as well be "them".

Who really cares if some Republican internet surfers come here and see us disagreeing with the official line? Is KE'04 then going to suddenly self destruct ? This is not the jumbotron in Times Square, for crying out loud. I understand the need to maintain the party line in real life and in most situations, but if we Democrats can't share our opinions on internet message board, where can we ?

I think some folks have an overly inflated view of their importance. For the most part, nobody cares what we post here (or anywhere).

[LynnTheDem]

19. Well said.

"What is supposed to separate us from "them" is the fact that we believe in discussing our opinions and ideas in an open fashion. Once we lose that, we may as well be "them"."

Exactly.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. That picture is an affront to oompa-loompas!

[unfrigginreal]

2. It has already bumped us in the ABC poll

that is not a draw my friend.

[fearnobush]

4. Edwards rocked the liar old fool. www.factcheck.com blaa, Its a redirector

to George Soro's anti Bush site. What a freakin' loser this guy Chaney is.

[Droopy]

6. I have to disagree that it was a draw

But that is how many in the media will spin it. I thought Edwards won.

[Union Thug]

7. though not scientific, all the online polls I've seen..

show support for Edwards. FWIW

[Droopy]

9. After looking at a few of those polls, maybe I'm wrong

and the media won't spin it as a draw. With so many people thinking Edwards won their bias would be very apparent if they tried to spin it as a draw.

[radfringe]

20. Edwards by a nose

At worse I think it was a draw, at best it was a close win for Edwards

if you take the time to review the debate or read the transcript you may think differently... Edwards didn't slam dunk the debate, but he scored a few more points than Cheney.

( http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/05/debate.transcript/ )

For the most part Edwards kept Cheney on the defensive, although there were some "catty" remarks by Cheney that might of struck a blow -- on the other hand the "catty" remarks were a tad bit too "snippy" which revealed that at the least Cheney was "irked"

There were several times where it was too obvious that Cheney was spinning, just repeating the standard stump lines. Edwards did the same, but seemed more credible and more in line with what the news media is reporting.

At one point (during the first 1/2 hr or so) Cheney was umming and erring -- something he is not known for and appeared to be grasping for a response.

Specifically related to terrorism -- When Edwards spoke about terrorists/homeland security he spoke in terms of needing to improve intelligence and security issues to prevent future attacks. Cheney, on the other hand, didn't miss an opportunity to sprinkle his remarks with visions of mushroom clouds and other words that illicit fear.
So we have Hope and Determination to do better on one side, Fear and "close enough" on the other.

Edwards was a bit weak in defending the "global test" remark. To me, when Kerry said it - it meant NOT that we would concede the right to defend ourselves as need be, but rather if we are to fight terror through the use of military action then we better have our facts straight. Terror is a global problem and will need to be dealt with on a global scale. This means getting other countries involved - and to do that we as a nation have to regain our credibility. Whether it means building international cooperation through the UN or outside of the UN -- international cooperation and involvment is needed. Though it's been pointed out many times that we have the most powerful military on the planet -- we can't do it alone in terms of manpower, economics or diplomacy.

bush* has mentioned several times the "world" had the same intelligence as we did about Iraq. Assuming that is true, ten why the 'resistence' to join the invasion? Could it be the intelligence didn't pass a 'smell test' by the other country's intelligence analysts? No smoking gun, but the general consensus is that bush* inc. cherry picked, manipulated and otherwise distorted intelligence to justify their reasons for invading Iraq. Big question - does the ends justify the means?

[flaminbats]

11. Is it true that the rules barred Edwards from mentioning Kerry's name...

but Cheney was at liberty to mention Bush's name?

If this was the case, not only has Edwards kicked ass, but the media has been acting only as another branch of advertisement for the Republican party.

[Droopy]

13. No

On one question Edwards and Cheney were asked not to mention the presidential candidates names.

[Gore1FL]

14. and still it boggles my mind as to why

It was alike a kindergarten rule to learn pronouns.

Anyone knoe the purpose of that?

[Swamp Rat]

12. John Edwards won the debate.

Cheney was only successful at keeping his human form in check for the duration of the debate.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. The public is rallying around Edwards despite debate appearances

The polls are showing that the public is voting in favor of John Edwards at a 2 to 1 ratio. Even the newspapers are bringing up his more salient points. How can that be when Edwards was up against a persuasive, more experienced opponent?

In a nutshell, because Cheney is veracity impaired. He simply cannot tell the truth. Yes, he's experienced and yes, he's persuasive. Very, very persuasive. But he's also a liar. He persuaded us to go to war with Iraq and now we are beginning to understand that his compelling reasons to go to Iraq, i.e. WMD & Sadaam tied to 9/11, was not just wrong, but that the V.P. had enough personal information at that time to know he was lying to us.

This man is all about personal profit and he will destroy this country to acquire it. HE IS NOT A PATRIOT. Patriots don't put their own interests before the interests of the country.

Finally, this is one thing I learned about Cheney last night that I didn't know before. One of the pundits (who was actually on his side) called him a Western style LIBERTARIAN. Was I the last person on this planet to know that Cheney is a L/libertarian? If that fact had been pushed in 2000, Cheney would never have been elected.

[AnIndependentTexan]

23. Edwards never had to win this debate

Like you said and others are saying that is why Edwards won the bigger picture and not just the debate. Edwards also had to prove that he could go head to head with Cheney. He also won on reinforcing Kerry's points from last Thursday. All he had to do was do all of this including make Cheney held accountable which he did.