Hardball Panel Had Already Made Up Their Mind Before

[Jon8503]

even the debate started. They were saying if Edwards tied Cheney he would be the winner. As soon as the debate was over they were saying Cheney obliterated Edwards. How in the hell did they see anything like that.

I saw Edwards answers as all being persuasive, understandable, concise and to the point.

Cheny would be looking down, snarling and start talking in a monotone and before he was done, I had forgotten what he had said at the beginning, he would just ramble on in a monotone.

Edwards won this thing hands down. Matthews and Greenspans wife can't spin their unbelievable crap. She tried hard to say Bush won as well.

[Bombtrack]

1. I started a thread pointing out that rediculosity right when Tweety did it

But even though you do believe Edwards "won hands down" I think you're overstating the case. Ewards was rockey at the beginning. He fumbled his words more and some of his answers weren't very powerful. Of course Cheney had alot that he screwed up on and coulnd't answer that was damaging. I think any objective person would say that it was DAMN CLOSE to a draw. I don't see what the justification is for calling it either way among how independent, undecided voters saw it.

[BootinUp]

2. So Cheney's explanations were persuasive to you?

If you are grading it on whether he could speak in full sentences then I agree. Perhaps that is the grading curve we are now stuck with. But what points did Cheney make in the form of unrefutable facts that will sway undecideds?

All I remember is a bunch of political spin out of Dick and distorted facts.

[Bombtrack]

5. You should know that "unrefutable facts" are really not a needed part of

the Bush campaign. Everyone who does know both sides and which side the the truth of all the arguments exists in already supports Kerry

[Jon8503]

7. Exactly, Cheney was mostly spin and if you notice when Edwards

hit him, Cheney did not refute or respond because he couldn't. This is where Edwards is coming out more persuasive in this debate than Cheney.

[Jon8503]

4. You may be right on the draw and I think Edwards basically took

it to him from the beginning. He looked him directly in the eye when he spoke. His answers were much more clear and concise and understandable than Cheney's answers.

I think the Wisconsin non-partisans answer on the debate is on the mark. Cheney was like a elder but Edwards was much more persuasive.

Don't know what or where the poll is yet but they mentioned it this morning on the news.

I might be stretching it on a hands down but that is the way I see it.

[goodboy]

3. They are overcompensating for their praise of Kerry's performance

last Thu.

[Snellius]

6. Rove told the media who won BEFORE the debate started

Spinning Out Clear Winner Even Before Debate Begins

Determined to win the post-debate spin war on Tuesday night, the Bush campaign called on its supporters to flood the news media with quick declarations that Vice President Dick Cheney had come out ahead.

Ken Mehlman, Mr. Bush's campaign manager, delivered the request in an e-mail message to supporters early Tuesday morning.

"Immediately after the debate, visit online polls, chat rooms and discussion boards and make your voice heard," he said in the note, sent to the six million supporters on the campaign's e-mail list. "People's perceptions are shaped as much by their conversations around the water cooler as by the debates themselves."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/06/politics/campaign/06spin.html

[DemocracyInaction]

8. a couple observations

I've heard a few criticisms this a.m. that Edwards was nervous at first (Hemmer on CNN trying to beat the hell out of Edward's young daughter--what a slimy creep). I thought Edwards was much stronger right out of the chute than Kerry was in the first moments of his debate. I didn't think he missed a beat. I also think that Cheney tended to lose the listeners because he was going through a detailed laundry list in his monotone that made it seem like a board meeting; but Edwards hit with simple accusations, etc. that M/M Joe Not-so-bright could understand and rally around. No one cares what these scared whores said in order to have their only chance to rescue Bush. They are not speaking for the common, politically ignorant hometown folks. Beware that they will try to foist Bush off as "folksey" in the townhall debate but nothing is going to save him because he can't perform in public.

[noonwitch]

9. Edwards did well

I missed the first 20 minutes or so, but what I saw, Edwards handled everything well. Cheney is better on his feet than Bush, and obviously much smarter, but he is mean and nasty. Edwards made one really good move, repeatedly-he didn't respond to negative personal attacks and let those attacks distract him.