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I believe the Toronto G20 protest riot was handled properly.

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glarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:12 PM
Original message
I believe the Toronto G20 protest riot was handled properly.
I watched all the coverage of the G20 protests and my feeling is that the police did the sensible thing by deciding not to rush the black clad thugs as soon as they started acting up. If they had done so, I'm sure this would have precipitated a full-blown riot (which is what the thugs wanted), with many serious injuries and perhaps even deaths, as there has been in the past at other such protests. Although there was some property damage, and the destruction of some police cars, it could have been much worse.
I think the police were in a situation where they would be second guessed no matter what they did. It's inevitable that among the thousands of policemen, there were a few who over-reacted, but overall I think they did an admirable job.
Remember....no one was seriously hurt or killed!

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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Agree. n/t
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. I tend to agree with you...
The thugs would have like nothing better than to have an excuse to riot and become even more violent and destructive than they were.

I have nothing but contempt for those 'anarchists', or whatever they call themselves, they are NOT protesters, they are destructive vandals high on violence, imo.
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes. But. They. Lied.
As is reported in a separate thread: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/police-admit-deliberately-misleading-public-on-expanded-security-fence-law/article1622864/

How many of the "anarchists" were agents provocateurs planted by the police? I think we'll get the answer in the fullness of time, but I'd like to know a bit sooner than that.
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glarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm sorry...but it just seems silly to me that the police
would want to "provoke" trouble. It makes no sense.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. You're joking, right?
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glarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No I'M NOT JOKING!
I have nothing more to say. I watched this live all the way through and although, as I said before, there were a few overzealous cops among the thousands there....I believe they handled things the best way they could without starting a full-blown riot, causing serious injuries and deaths.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Then read this
Edited on Tue Jun-29-10 12:55 PM by Bragi
This report was released this morning by the Canadian Civil Liberties Association:

It is the opinion of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association that police conduct during the G20 Summit was, at times, disproportionate, arbitrary and excessive. In our view, despite instances of commendable and professional conduct, the policing and security efforts, especially after 5PM on June 26 and June 27, failed to demonstrate commitment to Canada’s constitutional values...

Over the next 36 hours, over 900 people (possibly close to 1000) were arrested by police – the largest mass-arrest in Canadian history. Media, human rights monitors, protestors and passers-by were scooped up off the streets. Detained people were not allowed to speak to a lawyer or to their families. Arbitrary searches occurred in countless locations across the city, in many instances several kilometers from the G20 summit site. Peaceful protests were violently dispersed and force was used. In an effort to locate and disable 100-150 vandals, the police disregarded the constitutional rights of thousands.


http://ccla.org/2010/06/29/ccla-releases-a-preliminary-report-of-observations-during-the-g20-summit/
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Your opinion's based on watching all of it on TV?
Live or not, that's a dubious foundation for forming an opinion, especially when tens of thousands of people doing thousands of things simultaneously is what it's all about.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Yeah, but they've done it before,
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-04-10 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Does "Chicago, 1968" mean anything to you?
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Here's the "fullness of time" problem
No-one in charge of anything actually wants a proper inquiry into this fiasco. McGuinty is compromised by the stupid law he secretly passed, and Harper, well, he's Harper.

So what will have to happen is that either an independent watchdog will have to do the work (e.g. the RCMP complaints commission) a or it will have to come out through any criminal cases, or through Charter challenges, or civil litigation.

I believe that will happen, but the fullness of time will be measured in years, not months.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Then watch these videos
The 5 most important videos from the G20:

<http://this.org/blog/2010/06/28/g20-5-most-important-vi
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shockedcanadian Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Nothing personal at all intended...
I understand why you think this way Glarius, I was much like you a few years ago in fact, I wouldn't even entertain the idea that the police and intelligence create threats, that until I realized the ridiculous actions of some in our intelligence community against me personally. I always make this a point so that you understand my discourse; I speak from the perspective of a victim. That being said, I welcome your thoughts and counter-arguments, I don't have a monopoly on the truth.

As it stands, intelligence and policing in Canada has turned sharply for the worse. It is often not about security but rather optics, impression and budget increases; especially during high profile events like this as it is a perfect time for some to profit from peoples fears, anger and ignorance. Not too many people are curious about politics, democracy and intelligence matters, I know I wasn't. For those who have had such an interest from the start I have a grudging respect, as I feel silly being so uninformed.

There are videos of undercover RCMP officers in 2007 dressed in a crowd of protesters and egging on the crowd, they are holding bricks and baclava's over their faces. A simple youtube search will show you this. Of course, like all undercover operations by the RCMP and CSIS they denied denied denied. Standard procedure, the same way CSIS denied for years that Grant Bristow was one of theirs after he funded and created the Heritage Front. Years later, and probably after they had decided the best way to "come out", he admitted he was an agent (of course he defended his actions as necessary and stated he is a very loyal Canadian blah blah blah).
If these are the cases the public knows of, imagine how many we DON'T? I cannot imagine what the exponential multiplier would be.

As in the CSIS case, the RCMP were also caught red-handed with this undercover protest fiasco. They had to admit it, but said that they were not provokers (watch the video and judge for yourself) just part of the crowd, making sure nothing went wrong.

So, back to the G20. There were 19,000 police, they said they were ready for "anything". Well apparently not. Let's say these criminals and vandals were caught in the act. Arrested etc. People would be applauding. As it were, the police cars are shown around the world burning, you have some punks breaking glass of stores etc. People are angry when they see it, Harper does the predictable and says this is why the $1 Billion was necessary, ad naseau. The problem is, the $1 billion was spent to PROTECT wasn't it? 19,000 officers and some skinny runt with a stick can break store windows? Some young punks can destroy a car with an officer in it?

Many questions need to be asked. Why would there even be a police car present in that area? It is the G20. How did it happen? There are many video cameras down there, where is the video evidence of what happened? To me that would seem like the simple solution, reveal the video to the public. Why WOULDN'T this be provided? It hasn't as of yet, and don't expect them to do so.

It makes no sense. People know this makes no sense, even the common viewer who asks the same question "how the f_ _ _ can this happen with $1 BILLION spent? Where are any of the 19,000 police?

I will agree with you, that they would face probably face criticism no matter what they did, thats the problem with the genuius idea to have this event in Toronto. However, the decision to arrest a bunch of bystanders and a quiet protesting group while letting the city get smashed to hell doesn't seem to me to be good policing nor does it make sense. This is why people are curious about who these violent people are...people don't trust these agencies anymore, and they have only themselves to blame.
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. A Perspective
NAOMI KLEIN: Well. we’ll see if we make it to the Gulf of Mexico, Amy. But, yeah, I want to talk a little bit about, you know, that horrifying story from Jesse. And there are many others like it. And, you know, the police rioted after what happened on Saturday. As you mentioned at the top of the show, more than 600 people have been arrested, brutally arrested in many cases, these nighttime raids. There are stories of people waking up with guns pointed in their faces.


And the context for this is really frightening, because the police are feeling really cornered and feeling like they have to justify something which is completely unjustifiable. And that is the price tag that they put on what it would cost to provide security for the G8 and G20 summit. Security for this summit cost, as you mentioned, an estimated $1 billion. Just to put that in perspective, it’s more than security has ever cost for any summit ever in the world. And, you know, Canada is not a country which has a history of terrorist attacks. So, it isn’t at all clear why they felt they needed to spend such a huge amount of money. As a point of comparison, at Pittsburgh G20 summit, the price tag for security was $100 million. So you went in less than a year from a $100 million price tag to $1 billion price tag for security, with no explanation. And as Canadians started to learn about this, they became rightfully very, very angry. And the police were under a lot of pressure to explain why they were treating this summit that Canada was hosting essentially as a cash grab. Basically what happened is they were able to buy all kinds of new toys, water cannons, sound cannons, you know, all kinds of high-tech stuff. But the real cash grab was overtime pay for the police. I mean, they were absolutely extravagant in their overtime demands, unyielding. They said, "If you want security, this is what it costs." So, before the summit started, there was a public opinion poll that was conducted that found that 78 percent of Canadians believed that the cost was unjustified.


So, what happened on Saturday, when you saw those burning cop cars and windows breaking, was what I can only describe as a cop strike. Essentially, they were just letting it happen. And people were watching this, not understanding why, for hours, the same police car was just allowed to burn. I mean, these guys had just bought themselves a brand new water cannon, and yet they couldn’t seem to find themselves a fire extinguisher.


Now, while that was happening, media outlets were getting press statements. And I’ll just read you one. This is from the Toronto Police Department: "All you have to do is turn on the TV and see what’s happening now. Police cars are getting torched, buildings are being vandalized, people are getting beat up, and the so-called 'intimidating' police presence is essential to restoring order." In other words, the police were playing public relations, overtly. They were saying, "OK, you’re telling us our price tag was too high. We’re getting in political trouble for our outrageous demands. So now we’re going to show you this huge threat that we’re up against." And so, we have a police commissioner named Julian Fantino, who’s now started to talk about activists as organized crime. He says it’s not enough to call them thugs, they’re organized criminals. So, what’s dangerous here is that in order to justify their own unjustifiable actions, they need to overinflate a threat.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/28/naomi_klein_the_real_crime_scene


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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-04-10 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. Warmington: Cops had hands 'cuffed
Who made the decision for police to stand down despite the fact the city was under attack?

And why?

Was it a police decision or political?

These should be the cornerstone questions of an external review surrounding the chaos of the G20.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/06/30/14564416.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vTcpPj1EaRUJ:www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/06/30/14564416.html+These+should+be+the+cornerstone+questions+of+an+external+review+surrounding+the+chaos+of+the+G20&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
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