Just lost my job in a weird way.... and need advice (definitely for UK crowd)

[FunkyLeprechaun]

In the last 2 weeks I was on holiday, it was my honeymoon. I've been gone the same amount of time before but always returned to my pub job dutifully.

We came back Saturday and I texted my boss at the pub if it was ok if I started work again Sunday night (a regular shift of mine), she said it's ok you're covered. I had thought, sure, I just got back from holiday, I need to unpack and clean up. Was looking forward to chatting to people on Wednesday (my first regular shift) during my shift.

I had to do some errands on Monday and ran into my friend who I play darts with at the pub. She said, "You're back! How was it?" (said it was lovely). "When did you come back?" "Saturday." "How come you didn't come in Sunday?" "I texted M. if it was ok to come in Sunday night (I remember putting ZenziC Back? on the calendar on June 8th). She said, "Oh... hmmmm that's weird."

Yesterday evening, around 8 pm (I had just finished the First Look of Hollyoaks), my boss texted me and told me not to come in as she had no more hours left for anyone. So she gave someone else my hours that I had always had for a year and 4 months without telling me, until the night before I was due back.

I've always covered for people, I always came in when she asked me to come in, I even came in with a sore throat and hardly able to talk to people, I came in after hurting my face (tripped and fell on the sidewalk) worked for 5 hours with bandaged hands, I'd work 8 hour shifts whenever someone couldn't come in and she asked me if I could work until closing and I always said yes. I got paid £5 an hour, cash, below minimum wage. I even came back from Scotland and was on the road home when she texted me if I could work later that evening (I was once dropped off there without even going home, after being in the car for about 5 hours).

And to think I thought having my post wedding party there would give her a little bit more business as well as she's having trouble getting new customers to the pub (I covered for a friend on Saturday Night as basically all the regulars went to a wedding of a regular.... it was bloody Saturday night and the place was dead).

And then this. I'm thinking about going to Citizen's Advice Bureau. Although I'm not confident, as someone said it's not exactly legitimate work (my pay was in cash not cheque, and there's no record of me clocking in or out, although I always left notes of what times I worked from and to and the wage I took out).

I just feel like I was used. I'm sure she tried to gently "fire" me ("No more hours left! Sorry!") but I've never been so insulted in my lifetime, it was as if she thought I was dumb enough to accept that reason. I was actually hoping to quit the pub when I found a better job and I haven't had much luck and this was the only place that gave me a chance. Now I'm somewhat unemployed and looking for jobs (I've still got my volunteer work at the museum).

[FunkyLeprechaun]

1. 18 Views and no reply?

Anyway, I just talked to a friend of mine about this (the same friend that I talked to on Monday) and she said to talk to my boss. Going to the CAB is a bad idea because they wouldn't help me since this wasn't a contract job (I never signed a contract after I was hired) and M. didn't really keep track of her employees, except for us leaving a note about how much wages we earned and took out of the till. Like 5:30-7:30 was £10 and you'd write a wee note saying the times you worked and the wages you earned.

My friend C. said that text her and ask her why I can't come in. I've done that. Just waiting on the reply. I also asked C. about the only other worker who's worked longer than me and he still comes in once a week. C. didn't want me to not come into the pub anymore as I'm on the darts team.

Well, the CAB is open til 1 pm. I'll wait one more hour and decide what's the best thing to do.

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. It sounds really bad

I suspect the CAB may tell you the same thing as your friend - that being an informal job, you may not have much comeback on this - maybe you could push it, but it might cause trouble for both the pub and you if you do ('why weren't you paying National Insurance?' etc. - though, depending on the hours, perhaps you didn't get to that threshold.)

The trouble is that a pub can't be a great place to work in if you've had a major argument with the management about your employment - you're right there with each other all the time. So I'd agree an attempt to work this out with your boss is the best way to approach this, at least at first.

Oh, and for the views - DU does get traversed by various indexing bots, I think, so I wouldn't read too much into a few views.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

3. Oh thanks!

I did contact my employer. She said it's because the pub was too busy (I thought I had done fine when it was too busy) and she hopes that we were still friends. She said she's not mad at me and she didn't fire me (she still considers me an employee(?)). That was her explanation. I dunno how to take it though. I'm still upset at the loss of my regular hours and I even worked through the summer last year as well so I did just fine.

I think this experience has changed my opinion of the pub job. I thought it was a crappy job but it was the only one I had so I did it the best I could. This experience made it a crappier job and has changed my relationship with my employer to some degree. I don't know if I could accept any "last minute" jobs from her in the future (I so readily did before).

I haven't gone to the CAB, just because my friend told me that I should talk to M. first. My friend did say one thing that M. contradicted somewhat (C. said, "Maybe it's because the pub is dead most nights or not enough money?" M. said that, "It's getting a bit too busy for you to cope!")

I've since moved away from that area but I did definitely notice a downturn in attendance but it's the summer after all!

[Nihil]

4. In addition to Muriel's comment about bots ...

... I read your post but didn't have any useful suggestions so didn't
want to post a "wishing you the best of luck" message without there
being at least a hint of how you could achieve that "best of luck".

Sorry that I can't think of anything - but I do wish you all the best!
:hug:

[FunkyLeprechaun]

5. Thank you!

I did text my boss... I'm not fired but she's worried that the busy-ness of the pub would overwhelm me (I'm deaf).

Didn't say when I could return though or if she would give me a quieter hour... that's what's got me in a snit about it.

[enlightenment]

6. I shan't offer advice, as I'm not in the UK -

but I will offer my opinion, for what it's worth.

Muriel is right that you have little official recourse, as you were working informally, but for your own peace of mind you should probably ask to speak to your boss in person. I understand that texting may be easier because you are deaf, but it seems to be giving your boss an opportunity to weasel out of explaining her reasoning and intent.

It really does sound like you don't have a job there at this point, and it would be beneficial (I think) if you had a better understanding of what prompted her decision. It's your responsibility to ask the right questions, though - politely, without anger, and making it clear that you simply need to understand why this happened.

Consider making an appointment with her to speak in person. Prepare a list of questions that you would like to ask: why, for instance, she feels that you cannot cope with more trade now when you did fine last summer; why she considers you an employee if she is unwilling to give you hours - that sort of thing. Ask specific questions - asking her something like "why did you do this?" is not going to get you the sort of answers you need. A series of less aggressive and more specific questions will probably give you the answer to the bigger questions.

I cannot stress how important it is for you to remain calm and friendly during this process. I know it's upsetting, but it is the best way to get answers to the questions that are plaguing you - so try and separate your feelings from the process. Don't burn your bridges, ok?

I'm sorry that you had to come home from your wedding trip to this situation and I know it is terribly frustrating and hurtful. I hope you find the very best resolution.

Hang in there.

[WritersBlock]

7. Actually, you did have a contract. And she knows this, hence the "you're not fired" bullshit.

Please see this site: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10027905

From the site:

Contracts of employment: introduction

All employees have a contract of employment, although it might not be in writing.
What is a contract of employment?
A contract of employment is an agreement between an employer and an employee. Your rights and duties, and those of your employer, are called the ‘terms' of the contract.
Find out more about the terms of a contract
The contract doesn’t have to be in writing, but you’re entitled to a written statement of the main terms within two months of starting work.
The contract is made as soon as you accept a job offer, and both sides are then bound by its terms until it’s properly ended (usually by giving notice) or until the terms are changed (usually by mutual agreement).

--------------------

PLEASE go to this site... then go to ACAS!

Good luck!

On edit: If her excuse for not giving you any hours was because of your hearing, you have even *more* reason to go to ACAS.

But please do it quickly; there are time limits for filing complaints against an employer.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

8. My problem is

She's a friend (or supposed to be). I don't really want to exaberate that friendship since I've got a lot of friends who go to the pub and am on the darts team there. I've always traditionally requested quieter hours (if it was a wedding I still handled it ok).

At least she did talk to me over text. I can definitely see why it's not good to work for friends!

[WritersBlock]

9. She sure doesn't sound like much of a friend.

I see your point, though. You're in a difficult position.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide.

(And congrats on the marriage!)

[LeftishBrit]

10. I think that it's definitely worth going to the Citizens Advisory Bureau...

Besides everything that others have said, if she's been mucking you around because you're deaf, then the Disability Discrimination Act might be relevant.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

13. You know what annoys me

She doesn't think what she did was wrong. Hopefully, me or someone else will explain it to her.

[emad]

11. If she's employing staff without deducting income tax and NI contributions

she is breaking the law.

Quite a heavy rap from the taxman is possible because employment of casual staff 'off the books' is illegal.

You stand a good chance of being exonerated if it ever came to court because the onus is on the employer to abide by the letter of the law.

You also have an excellent case for wrongful dismissal despite not having been a full PAYE employee.

Briefly, the law in the UK states that to fire a staff member you have to first give them a verbal warning, to say what the issue is that is so sackable.

That has to be followed up by a written warning.

After that dismissal is legal.

Breaching this procedure gives the wronged employee a first class case for wrongful sacking.

Look up a Legal Aid lawyer for in-depth advice.


JUST one thing....if you have no legal right to work in this country, eg no work permit as a non-national, things could get a bit sticky. But you might still be able to claim some compensation if you argue successfully it was a temporary holiday number.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

12. That's the problem

She didn't quite fire me (she said she didn't fire me and asked me if I could be available to cover!). However, I did go to the pub yesterday. Didn't get to talk to her but one of my friends, A., said she knew what had happened (the first friend I mentioned above probably talked to her about it).

Then a regular we were sitting with said, "Where have you been?" And we told him about it. "That's not nice," and he shook his head. Then my friend suggested I do some GSCEs (to show the level of education I have) to complete my resume. I'm trying to get my last recommendation, a professor from the university I went to in America, to send in his recommendation for university here. He's made me wait for 4 months.

I have a legal right to work here (hold dual citizenship), just having a little bit of trouble finding a job at the moment.

[emad]

14. What she's done is called constructive dismissal.

There's a law against it.

As an employer hiring staff without deducting income tax and national inusrance is a criminal offence.

She stands to pay a hefty fine, go to jail and/or be barred from being an employer again pending a period of probation.

Recommend the Legal Aid route.