Here is the big picture

[nadinbrzezinski]

Ok, ok so some are pissed becuase you hoped this woudl overturn the election. The only way it could have happened is if we contested the votes in Mew Mexico, Florida, OH, Nevada, aka all the places were we know there are serious problems... for those of you who don't know what this means, read the Thylden - Hayes decision.

Now the big picture is that today we got a debate on both chambers about our broken electoral system.

The big picture is that this is but one battle in a war to reclaim the country

The big picture is that this can be our waterloo if people are so dammed pissed they do not realize this and drop out.

The big picture is that this was a Rosa Parks Moment.

The big picture is that this is, if we choose to grab the moment, the begining of a movement, not the end.

The big picture is that this is going to take YEARS.

The big picture is that we need to do this from the grass roots

The big picture is that this is up to us, and it has always been up to us.

Some things you can do.

RUN, yes RUN, for local Democratic Party Office.

GO to the meetings.

Run for local office.

Work at the grassroots.

MARCH

Demonstrate,

WEAR ORANGE from now on, in some way, shape or form and FRAME orange as CLEAN ELECTIONS, in the winter go for Red Gloves.

DOCUMENT

Be the media.

Your other option is to continue to seat behind yoru computer screen and get pissed off and write how pissed off you are... and continue to bitch and moan. Democracy is still alive, in this country, today she was given some Epinephrine... but she is barely fighting, and I may add, this is not a spectator sport.

One more thing... how much are you willing to sacrifice for this fight? Your future, your life?

We are stepping in line with those patriots at Concord, as well as those patriots at Selma... we are trying to fill HUGE shoes... but we are those patriots, and it is time we retake the country, step by step, by step... but bitching and moaning will not help. Or for that matter having unrealistic expectations, or asking the impossible from people, and someday you may understand why most democrats did not stand up today... as is the consequences for California and Tubbs district will be felt and will be hard. Yet this is the price we all pay for Democracy.

My advise for both Boxer and Tubbs, from now on, avoid small planes...

[RDANGELO]

1. complete agreement N/T

[smurfygirl]

2. orange really isn't my color

It makes me look all washed out.

Seriously, I'm all on board to see some DUer's run for office in 06. We have the potential here to really make a difference.

[Warpy]

3. They have four years to get off their fat, overpaid asses

and do something about voter reform and civil rights lawsuits against everybody who worked so hard to disenfranchise the US voter.

So far, the silence hss been deafening.

We know that denied an external enemy, the right will start to feed on its own. Yes, they'll destroy themselves.

If we don't have an alternative ready to take their places when people are throroughly sickened by them, it won't do any good.

[KittyWampus]

8. If You'd Actually Listenened Today -They Talked About Legislation

dealing with Election Reforom that has been held up by the GOP in control.

[TheUnspeakable]

4. I know you're right, but

"It's going to take years" How many will die needlessly in those years -not just from wars but from poverty and lack of medical care?
We know in our hearts they stole the election and yet we can't stop them. i tried not to expect more today, but still-Are you sure we even HAVE years before the rapture or whatever happens with this nutjob in office??

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. What are YOU willing to give up in this fight?

yes many will die, in fact I am willing to put numbers now on it. World War II saw the death of 100 million people around the world... if these people are able to get their eternal war for eternal profit expanded, and the world sees them as a threat, I am willing to up that count to at least a quarter of a billion people...

I know this is a cheeery thought NOT... but to use a corny and often abused saying, freedom is not cheap...

Oh and you may remmeber, one of our founding fathers wrote, taht the tree of liberty does neet watering from time to time...

This is our time, we did not choose to be here, history put us here. Today Boxer answered the call of history.... my question is, will YOU answer the call of history?

[RaulVB]

5. No, sorry...

You don't understand what these criminals are willing to do to remain in power...

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. But I do, far better than you I suspect, for history is my passion

That is why I asked are you willing to give up your life? For it may take the death of millions for us to retake the country... and the country may not even survive.

You see there is this place in my nightmares... a place of horrors and a place that some of these beasts are willing to go back to. It is called the Gulag, or the Extermination Camp... and yes I believe they are quite capable of running one... for they already running a Gulag Archipielago and it is a matter of time before that archipielago comes to this country.

Oh and that is the least of their crimes, that is just the begining...

[RaulVB]

10. That's something that will be answered with actions...

Not statements.

Believe me, I can see your point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Then we agree

And you think I am only making statements? I intend to infiltrate the Democratic Party, as I am running for district office... it does not matter if I win or loose, for the folks running are just as empasionate as I am... and we are starting a group to teach people how to frame the debate... yes I am not seating behind a computer all day, well except when doing work... but you know what I mean.

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. I am willing to work and wait years... four to be exact...

if, by 2008, we don't have substantive electoral reform/regime change, I will become a "refugee". If the draft comes back, I will go sooner. The destruction of Social Security would also hasten my emigration.

Without comparing our experiences under Bush to their suffering or sacrifices, were the Jews who fled Nazi Germany disloyal defeatists? Were the Russians and those who fled Eastern bloc countries during the cold war? How about the Vietnamese who left when Saigon fell? Or for that matter, how about Iranians who fled after the Shah fell, or Cubans who fled when Castro came to power? Were they traitors? No, they were doing what they had to survive, what they felt was best for them and their families.

I hope I don't have to, but I will seek refuge where my family can thrive and prosper, and where our labor and earnings don't support (at least not directly through US income taxes) a fascist war machine.

In the meantime, I'll be right here fighting for democracy...

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. That is a very personal decision

After the election I told my husband, I want to leave... I cannot see myself in this oountry any more

He said I am not ready to give up on this country.

I looked him in the eyes and said, "fine, then we fight."

If you choose to leave I will wish you luck and greener pastures... for those of us left behind this will be the fight of our lives....

And quite brutally honest we may only "win" after so much pain is inflicted on this country that even Bush Republicans will be foreced to admit they were wrong or worst, never admit they voted for the bozo.

[bush_is_wacko]

20. RaulVB

We do understand what these thugs are capable of. Believe me we do. The reality is we have to start somewhere on ELECTION REFORM. There are lots of other issues that need to be addressed and there are lots of other forums to address them.

One thing we all need to do right now is find that issue and work like hell to get our voices heard. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, DeLay, Blackwell, and many others all need to be investigated. What the Thugs did to change the ethics rules "We the People" have to be willing to correct. We have to be the investigators now. We have to find factual and provable evidence, and as much as we can of that type of evidence, to present to a Senator that is willing to indict. We have to be willing to withhold that evidence until we know it is sufficient. In other words, we have to find and present not just "A" smoking gun, but "THE" smoking gun.

Just take a deep breath and calm down. I know that's hard. I am a little miffed myself, still, that we may have to endure Shrubya for 4 more years, but I already resigned myself to that fact a while ago. Let's get this party together and make it an unstoppable rolling ball of shit that picks up BushCo at the top and rolls him right down to the bottom of the burning pit of oil he so willingly put himself in.

[blm]

6. Excellent post. Constructive, positive input.

I hope it steams the trolls. ;)))))))))))))))

Nominated for home

[NickiWitch]

11. That's the spirit!!!

this deserved another nomination!

Peace!

[Casablanca]

13. "Ok, ok so some are pissed becuase you hoped this woudl overturn ..."

You're wrong. We're pissed because the Democrats didn't band together as a party to make a strong statement for the rights of all votes to be counted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Some are actually pissed becuase they hoped this would

overturn it.

Yes, you read that right.

Some are pissed because they did not present a unified front. Some day you will understand why they did not... there were very valid reasons not to, unless they got a single republican to cross the aisle. Alas the republicans will not do that.

We achieved something huge today, something that most people were betting would not happen...well it did...

Rome was not built in a day... now the ball is in YOUR COURT and MINE.

Now you are POed at the Democratic Party, either step into the breach, RUN for local office, either party or political, or step out of the way. All the bitching and moaning will NOT work to change that party into what YOU want it to be UNLESS you step into that breach and actually act on it.

Otherwise, I do not care if you vote, not vote, or decide to leave the party... I really do not care.... but those district offices are the ones who recruit candidates at the local level, and those candidates will one day grow up to be Congress Critters and Senators and even Presidents... so this is HOW YOU HAVE AN EFFECT. Does it happen overnight? HELL NO...

Oh and by the way, if the DNC elects McLauliffe again (he has been asked to run again by some) it will be partly because we did not do much noise, except on DU... and quite frankly they don't read DU... no time mostly.


So today you have a choice, you can act on what happened today or continue to beach and moan... the choice to build a new world was taken today by Boxer and Tubbs, now my question to you is will you answer that insistent phone?

[Casablanca]

25. "Some day you will understand why they did not..."

Yeah, and I'm still waiting to understand why Kerry went underground for months during his presidential campaign, or why the Democrats voted for the Patriot Act without reading it, or why Clinton fast-tracked NAFTA legislation without allowing any serious discussion on it, or why so many Dems still think the Republicans might still be willing to work with them on any meaningful legislation, or why Dems thought Kerry's Vietnam experience and insider status automatically made him more "electable".

Or maybe I'm not, because I only understand sense, not a neurotic fixation on tactical politics that consisently fails its believers.

All of those clever little tactical Dem moves were and are STUPID. Very clever and very, very stupid, because none of those tactics have ever resulted in more Dems being elected and re-elected. If they worked, I'd believe in them, but they haven't and they don't. This is why what I'm writing isn't a whine, but an analysis, and an accurate one.

The only record that history will remember is that one lone Senator voted to defend the right of every vote to be counted. Only one. If you can defend that, I can't defend you.

[candice]

14. UNDERSCORES THE SECOND QUESTIONABLE ELECTION

of this President (whose election "defied history and logic," according to Zogby). 51 percent disapprovals at the exit polls and after the election. What happened today UNDERCUTS Shrub's "mandate."

[wiggs]

15. I'm pumped up and ready to go.

I'm also bitching and moaning.

I don't plan on whining for a long time, but today I'm doing it. And by the way, not many expected the election to flip, but for myself I expected the dems in congress to stop playing nice and get serious about this very serious game.

I believe you are completely right...this is going to take a long time, there are going to be casualities, and it very well may get worse before it gets better.

And we are going to need better leadership than we currently have. I gave time and money to the election effort and will continue. I haven't heard anyone say they are so pissed they are giving up, so I don't think that will happen. Being pissed is motivation for many, I'd say, so don't be so quick to discount it. Think TIA put in countless hours in research because he was happy with the election?

[FreepFryer]

17. Completely spot-on correct. We can be confident if we move forward

with courage and conviction(s).

[glitch]

19. I am with you nadine. Already have my orange.

So many people see things in black or white. Good or bad. Today was a good day for some (yea-speakers but nay-voters), a GREAT day for others (yea-voters). And, a sad day too.
Whatever, gonna fight, gonna speak my mind, and most importantly,
gonna fight for fighters.

[Old Mouse]

22. Your picture is not complete

We managed a small procedural delay and loss of prestige for an illegitimate coup d'etat of the American government by a group of morally reprehensible war profiteers who have mastered the art of image and media manipulation.

Our delay has also upset their carefully orchestrated propaganda machine they rely on to keep the nation inactive and unaware.

Bigger than Selma, bigger than Parks. They want to plunge the entire world into eternal warfare to guarantee a perpetual hold on power. If we cannot repair our country from within, rest assured sooner or later the rest of the world will fix it for us in a manner we will likely find uncomfortable.

The senators that did not stand chance the normal procedures of government still apply, and that remedy can be sought through these means. I think it was a miscalculation and a lack of courage. Publicity and the attention of the media is our only weapon. Six senators demanding the overturn of the presidential election is more compelling than thirty Congressmen "using the challenge only to foster debate." Today should have been bigger, more exciting. Pictures worthy of the television news. Video so cool people trade it over the internet.

But you are right in many, many ways. Yes, years. Yes, it is and has been up to us. Yes, Epinephrine (or as I call it 'buzztk - "oooh!"')Yes, one battle in a much much larger war.

Thanks for the words. I suppose now I need to go find some orange that goes with my clothes while the Christmas sales are still on...

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Remember, we need to frame the debate with

friends and neighbors and GO AGAINST the Stenography Corp.

By the way... CNN already came up with the talking point we have to contend with "two ---- DISRUPTED..."

Ok emailing CNN is useless, but we need to take this and turn it on its head.

What is the problem with COUNTING EVERY VOTE?

Oh and for those who said... every election has some problems... Our goal is to have 100% transparent and clean elections...

See it is how you frame it... and you and I need to talk to people and we need to write to the papers (even if they do not publish) and we need to keep the presure. This is the first battle... and by the way, I will ask the same I asked from a friend on an email list.

Pretend you were in Alabama in 1955 and you read in the paper that this black woman refused to give up her seat... would you think that would lead to... the Civil Rights Act?

Now forget all you know about US History... just try to put yourself there the day after, when you read this in the paper with the morning coffee?

In some ways what hapepend today is very much equivalent, most everybody thinks it will have zero effect... well conditions have been building over the last four years to this point... but we have much more to do.

Roll up your sleves... the batle has just begun

[glitch]

24. Wise words Old Mouse. nt