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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:55 PM
Original message
Here's how it can Happen!

By DU Blogger, hvn_nbr_2 (21 posts)

Reprinted, for your Reading Pleasure, from ttp://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x46764


First, why I think something's up behind the scenes that we don't know about: There are all the obvious things that everyone has already talked about, the suspiciously early, easy, and gracious concession, the "silence of the Dems." Why aren't the party folks screaming about the obvious massive fraud, intimidation, and disenfranchisement? Because they know something more effective than screaming is going on.

In particular, why aren't our loud and sometimes loose cannons roaring? The intimidation and disenfranchisement were, as always, concentrated in poor and black areas, but Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are mum. Could you ever imagine that? Congresspeople whom you can always count on to make waves, such as Henry Waxman, Charles Rangel, Maxine Waters, and others are silent and not making waves. Do you think they know something we don't? You could argue that they're in shock, but not for two weeks, and I never knew of shock to keep those folks silent.

I hear no recriminations among the party wheels about how Kerry campaigned or such. Even less than during the campaign. Dems are too fractious a bunch for that to happen. After a loosing campaign, there are always recriminations. This is the dog that didn't bark.

Our thousands of lawyers wanted to file hundreds of lawsuits on election day, but Kerry said no. Kerry, the tenacious prosecutor. Kerry, who fought on in the Iowa caucuses. Kerry, who helped found VVAW. But now, a week later, he sends hundreds of lawyers back to Ohio, "to make sure every vote is counted" and "to ensure the legitimacy of the election." That doesn't make any sense at all. It's got to be a diversionary tactic, to lull the pukes into a false sense of security and distract attention from where the real thing's going to be.

Finally, they have to realize (don't they?) that going down without a fight in the face of such obvious and massive fraud would cripple the party for years or even decades. Forget 2006 and 2008. People who stood in line for six hours to vote won't do that again if they don't fight to count those votes. People who poured out energy, time, commitment, and money like never before won't do that again, if all their efforts go down the drain without even a fight. People who say they don't vote because it doesn't matter will be proven right. We won't be able to tell Nader voters that they're throwing away their vote, because Nader's votes were counted and ours weren't--we're the ones who threw away our vote, if they won't fight to count our votes. Surely they have to realize this.

So here's my theory (probably my tin foil hat theory, if I understand that expression correctly):

Max Cleland is a friend of Kerry's. Max Cleland was robbed of a Senate seat by BBV, and anybody who's paying attention knows it. Several other elections were all stolen in apparent dry runs for this one. Kerry and everyone else in the campaign had to know about that. But no one ever said a word during the campaign about it. Compare that to the massive attention to intimidation and disenfranchisement and the thousands of lawyers deployed to prevent it, and the somewhat inhibitory effect that had on some of the worst abuses. But as for BBV, the message was, "Welcome, Pukes. Come in and make yourselves comfortable. Have a cup of tea and be as brazenly audacious as you wish in your vote-stealing. You can go all-out with impunity. No one here will say a word. Not, that is, until we spring this nice little ambush that we have set for you."

Here in California, we just got a multi-million dollar settlement from Diebold over their illegal dealings with touch-screen systems. How? A Diebold technician turned whistleblower. Oh, and he gets a percentage of the settlement too. Does anyone seriously think that we didn't at least try to place some mole technicians in Diebold and also that no lone-ranger moles tried to get in and also that nobody in the company wants a share of the next whistleblower percentage?

I think the Kerry campaign probably had copies of this year's equivalents of rob-georgia.zip about as soon as they were in Diebold technicians' hands. By election day, they'd decompiled or reverse engineered whatever was in them (if it even took that much geek work) and knew exactly how many votes were being stolen where and how. When things turned weird on election day, it was exactly according to plan and exactly as expected.

So, you ask, why haven't they come out with it? What are they waiting for? Remember Kerry the prosecutor? He didn't make his name going after small-time one-off thugs. He drove the whole mob out of his county. There are bigger fish here than some Diebold programmers. There's even bigger game than a stolen presidential election.

With something like a rob-ohio.zip and rob-florida.zip file in hand as evidence and a couple friendly, honest FBI agents or local prosecutors, they could get wiretaps, email taps, FTP taps, and whatever else. With the Dems apparently slinking off into the silence to lick their wounds, the biggies might well be carelessly congratulating themselves on their splendid coup, on tapped lines. Imagine Diebold's CEO being thanked by, oh say, Karl. And one tap's results could lead to another, and then another. Oh my, where might it all lead? Maybe to the whole "Soprano family values" crowd.

But there's still other big game out there to be taken down. The downstream media (hey, they stopped being mainstream a long time ago, they're downstream now) never dealt seriously with BBV problems; they completely ignored all the evidence that BBV was a disaster in the making and had actually already been used to steal elections. They treated the Swift Boat Liars thing as a he said-she said thing that no one could possibly investigate or verify or know the truth, and they acted as though people who weren't there could know as well as people who were there what happened. The downstream puke media (DPM) were completely in the RNC's pocket and completely AWOL from any real journalism, and have been for years.

So, to take down the DPM by embarassing and humiliating them for their complete and utter failures also required waiting to let them do it to themselves. We had to wait while evidence mounted and they ignored it, while the blogosphere fulminated and they unanimously (except Olberman) declared it to be looney internet conspiracies, while they unanimously said all this smoke doesn't mean there's fire, why there really isn't even any smoke, my dears. Just be calm and trust us.

So, when do we see something? Well, it has to be before the electoral college votes. Practically, it has to be before results are certified, particularly if Senate races were stolen too, as seems likely. I'm thinking probably this coming week, because the following week is Thanksgiving and real news will die for most of the week, and the week after that is tight on deadlines for vote certifications. I'm also thinking either Monday or Friday: Monday so the DPM anchors have to wipe egg off their faces all week, or Friday to set up the Sunday morning talking heads shows. Of course, if the FBI or wiretaps are involved, it might all depend on whether new big fish are calling up to volunteer to go to the big house.

On the other hand, this might all be my wishful thinking fantasy, in which case refer back to the paragraph that begins, "Finally, they have to realize (don't they?)" and start applying for immigration to Canada.

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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanksgiving Day Is Thursday (On My Calendar)
At least my mother-in-law is showing up Wednesday. I hope she's not planning to spend 10 days here. Cheers
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. He said it was a reprint from last week. :)
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. interesting, very interesting. Only one thing-Thanksgiving is this week
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Sperk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I like it! I like it! If it's not true though, and he Dems did just
give up, I'll have to vote Green next time. Good bye Dem party...I hardly knew ya. :-(

Do ya think there's a greenunderground.com???
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senegal1 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Nice idea
but the whole bunch of groups involved in this seem less than that organized. I think the real answer is not to hope and wish for a miracle or hope for this level of organization but rather to be the hope ourselves in our worlds and keep plugging away before and after Dec 13. I am sure you are doing that and I intend to do that too.
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ahyums Donating Member (348 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. I really really hope you're right, if it were to happen that way to would
be pretty much the ultimate best case scenario, especially if Rove was led out of the White House in handcuffs and things very rarely work out that way in my experience.
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dewaldd Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. I got my passport in order
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Vast Left Wing Conspiracy, bwwaaaaah,.....bwaaaaah. nt
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masshole1979 Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. that would be wonderful but...
...isn't more believable that the dem. party is just completely moribund, that it is as bad as it was in 2000, after four years of little meaningful reform and essentially the same leadership?

Do keep in mind the last four hideous years were probably not part of some elaborate strategy...unless it was to expose just how awful the repigs can be when you give them the government.
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Ugnmoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. As crazy as it sounds...
this might just have some ring of truth to it. I have been saying since Kerry resigned so quickly that something was going down. It just didn't make any sense for him to give up so quickly. Kerry is an old prosecutor and he is well adept at laying traps. You could well be right that they knew the Repukes were going to pull the voting scam and had them set up. You know how the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me (or as Chimpy says fool me twice and you'll never fool me again - what an asshole!)
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. Did Dan Rather shoot himself in the ass on purpose?
I hope you're right. I think it may also be a bit of wait and see if we can turn anything up that might stick. Keep in mind, the thousands of lawyers he has working on this is being augemented by our work here. Don't for a second think that they aren't monitoring what we are saying in these posts and viewing the data we are producing. They have an army of researchers here on DU and many more places. I believe if this does go down our efforts will have helped.

But you also have to consider, since we are putting on our tin foil hats, that maybe they have no idea what happened and are trying just as frantically as we are to find a smoking gun. Would intense media coverage help or hinder this investigation? The Repubs have spent years consolidating thier power base in this country and exposing this conspiracy might result in civil war. Look at the Ukraine. There's a president-elect with a serious problem. The reason they remain silent might be because of the terrible situation we would be in should this prove to be true or worse prove to be false.

Look at Iraq. Our boys are dying to bring Democracy to those people. This wasn't the original plan but it is the reason we are sticking around. What sort of moral authority would we have if we allowed Bush to steal the 2000 election, invade Iraq based off bullshit lies and then catch him in vote rigging and kick him out. It's one hell of a risky exit strategy to say the least.

However, I also think they want us to find the fraud. I think they want the fraud to come from the people and more importantly the Internet. Do you honestly think Dan Rather is stupid enough not to properly vet a letter like that? Honestly? Anyone could have seen this was a bogus letter but who got the credit? The bloggers. Until this happened, I never even heard of a Blogger. This is why I started writing on the posts. I figured this was a way to get my views out. Did Dan Rather take one in the ass for us? It sure seems that way to me. Are they really this clever? Who knows, if he's not though, we don't need him as President. At least we know that everyone else knows that Bush is a sneaky treacherous little bastard and this sort of scares people a bit. It does me.

If Kerry wins this, then this should expel any doubts who the boss really is. He is going to allow the illusion that it was us that overthrew Bush. If your scenario is correct, we will get all the credit for breaking this story and not a word of it will be true. All this time and work will be just another manipulation to afford people the illusion that we have the power. I mean, that's cool with me and all, I just don't like knowing there are really people out there this fucking smart. It's sort of creepy. I just hope he really is a good guy because wouldn't it be a bummer to find out later that we got all the credit for electing Hitler? I have said it before and I'll say it agian. I will work to help Kerry but he hasn't earned one nickel of credit with me. He steps out of line one bit and it's back to number crunching and feeling around in the dark. God, I hope he's a good man and I hope you're right. I'm taking off my tin foil hat now and going back into the exciting world of canvass reports and registration data. Woopie!!!

Sincerely,
Michael Lewis
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dogindia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. this is from post 83 of the link above
that is

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x46764

written on November 13. Great. Yah.... He or she (hvn_nbr_2) had made 21 posts before that.

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. And you've made six
What is your point?
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. I really loved hvn_nbr_2's post! Seems very plausible and uplifting!
Here's to hoping for the best!
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. This actually sounds very plausible!
John Kerry is very forward-thinking, imo, & I could imagine him setting a trap for the election scam. I would also imagine there would be quite a few FBI personnel who would have been more than glad to help bag the absolute worst president in U.S. history.

And I like the idea of planting technicians at Diebold. I could see that happening, too. Kerry doesn't strike me as someone who would totally ignore what happened in 2000. Plus, the fact that BBV's without paper trails are popping up all over the country is a huge red flag of which Kerry most surely took note & for which he was well prepared.

I've been thinking the same thing about all the top dogs in the Democratic Party being so silent. Hvn_nbr_2 expressed it beautifully. I remember well how Al Sharpton continuously brought up the 2000 election during the debates -- & he's SILENT now! And Maxine Waters, too -- remember during "Fahrenheit 9-11" when she & her HoR peers rightfully raised hell on the HoR floor after the 2000 election -- not a peep out of them.

Kerry's already my hero, but if anything close to this happens, I think I'd probably be walking on air for about a year! Another thought: If something like this were to happen, the Bushitler supporters couldn't say a WORD about Kerry's right to the WH.

I love hvn_nbr_2's post so much because he actually sounds plausible. Thanks for posting this -- it's a pick-me-upper. :)
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moesse Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Plausible and deliberate
Remember how Kerry was overheard saying how this was the most crooked bunch he'd ever come across? He's fully aware of the lengths this group would go to to steal this.

Remember how when Bush first came to office, Bush moved back the date that Presidential records would become available? To protect his dad and the Iran-Contra dealings during Regan which, coincidently, John Kerry was one of the key investigators on.

This administration, the Bush family, have so very much to lose if Kerry gets into office. The stakes are, literally, for the dynasty here and I'm guessing John Forbes Kerry is aware of that ... My money's on the hockey player.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Mine too!
n/t:kick:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I've posted, more than once, in various places....
....that far, far be it for me to ever second-guess Senator Kerry. And, I urge(d) folk to take him at his word, to paraphrase 'this election IS NOT OVER.'

That said, I also think Senator Kerry and many others are watching -- US. The People. The ones who own this franchise. Are we willing to band together and save it or are we going to become part of the Bush dynasty's drive way, because, if we let Bush and the neocons stay on the steamroller they ran through this National Election our franchise will truly be the victim of 'my way or part of my driveway.'

Anyone, absolutely anyone, who thinks Bush and the neocons don't know how to drive that steamroller -- well, just look at what the did to the US Congress, the Geneva Conventions, the UN, and our Constitution in starting a pre-emptive war in Iraq and turning a blind eye to some of the most horrific torture and civilian devastation ever seen on the boob tube -- it AIN'T A MOVIE, folks.

Do everything you possibly can to stop that damn neocon steamroller.

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Hi moesse!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Sodium Pentothal Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
15. At what point does inaction disprove this?
I have the same hopes. I fervently wish there is something going on right now, and with the complete hush over it making Rove powerless to set loose the juggernaut. When(if) this hits, its going to be huge, it should have coverage over a span of days until the right really gets their shoulder in the door with their foul-mouth lies.

But how long can they afford to wait?
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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. FLASH BULLETIN! Blogger calls march on Fox NOW!

Combined protest against Fox and the rigged election —

The objective is specifically to challenge the wall of silence on the rigged election by news outlets like Fox and make a breakthrough —

Please spread this around, check it out and kick it —

A blogger has posted an extremely detailed, specific call to protest the rigged election AND the suppression of the truth ABOUT the rigged election by Fox News — a combined event mass march protest to be held in New York City — AT — Fox headquarters on 6th Avenue —

Main protest chant —

“Rupert Murdoch, tell the truth! Fascists rigged the voting booth!”

Nobody thinks of marching against a news organization in the streets. This is going to be a shot heard round the world.

Very comprehensive protest plan with very helpful travel details, the works —

See blog on this,

“A Call To March On Fox —

For refusing to tell the truth about the rigged election!” —

http://acalltomarchonfox.blogspot.com/

Discussion thread in General Discussion Forum — please help keep this kicked —

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2688242

“A Call To March Against The Rigged Election”

Please spread these links around to help us organize this.

Please join that discussion there and help keep it kicked. Marching on Fox starts at post 117. But read the whole discussion. And read the blog. Discussion also discusses an earlier blog on marching against the rigged election and media. Second blog being discussed is on a specific, detailed call to march on Fox specifically as a key initial part of this protest against the rigged election. Fox is a key ENABLER of the rigged election. They’d never get away with election rigging on such a vast scale if it weren’t for news suppressers/distorters like Fox. Read both blogs.

Tremendously detailed comprehensive blog —

It gives the exact location in New York City of all of Rupert Murdoch’s empire, New York Post, Fox News, News Corporation (Murdoch’s big parent company — it owns almost everything else he’s got) — all of that — it’s all in a single building on 6th Avenue between 47th Street and 48th Street in mid-Manhattan. Murdoch’s own office is in the building too. We can be chanting against him right outside his window. All their offices are not on very high floors either — as low as the second floor — they’ll see and hear us and have to pass us on the way in. All those blow-hard Fox talking heads lying about the election — we’ll be in direct shouting matches with them as they come and go. And Fox itself is on the SECOND Floor. How good is their studio soundproofing in there????? Everybody at Fox is going to be bitching that they can’t get any work done. There’s no way they can hush this up.

Since it’s a vicious circle — news organizations like Fox suppress our protests, making them seem futile, therefore the proposal is to combine objectives and protest Fox AND the rigged election TOGETHER right outside Murdoch’s building and tie the two evils together — “Murdoch suppresses the truth about the rigged election!” — and invite other New York news organizations, many of whom DETEST Murdoch, to cover it. (You didn’t know New York news people and news executives hate Murdoch? Blog goes into that a lot.)

Blog has many links to anti-Murdoch resources and video of Bill O’Reilly telling everybody to shut up, shut up, shut up, over and over. What a sewer rat! Right on camera! He looks really mean and drunk in one of the film clips. Jack Daniels? And he’s on camera hotly lecturing us, “It is our duty as all loyal Americans to shut up.” The video nails him good — and Fox. Blog gives other video links too.

Tired of being told to shut your trap? Open it. March against Fox and the rigged election in New York City.

But the idea is to put it all together, to protest and denounce Fox outside their offices for leading the COVER-UP of the election heist. It’s a shot across the bow to the rest of the media that they better start telling the truth about the election, or they’ll get protests like the one at Fox. All the national news media are based in Manhattan. They can’t say this protest was too out of the way to get to.

Blog also has links to downloadable anti-Fox flyers, petitions and other resources against Fox that could be distributed at the protest march.

Blog goes into tremendous detail about the strategy, the advantages of starting protests in New York as opposed to other cities (huge liberal population would augment people coming from out of town), and it’s the news media capital of the world. Very friendly terrain. New York Democratic congressmen are demanding investigation of the stolen election. No rednecks in the population or the government, no paranoid security apparatus like you have in D.C.

Blog includes complete “mother lode” total orientation guide to using New York subways with downloadable maps you can enlarge, how to use mass transit to get from Amtrak’s Penn Station to the march, how to use mass transit to get from the airports to the march.

Let’s make it happen!

Keep kicking that thread so everyone will hear of this!

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Debbie13 Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Shouldn't this Fox March have a separate thread
I'm new here and was just wondering. I think this is big news and needs to be highly publicized. (Perhaps it does and I couldn't find it.)
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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes n/t
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intelle Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Why does this need to be posted in every single thread?
Why can't it have it's own thread? I was positive about the idea, but this overkill is changing my mind.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I agree
It is becoming kind of annoying posting it all over the place.
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kerry is an elite Skull and Bonesman...the definition of "establishment"
Edited on Tue Nov-23-04 01:37 PM by info being
Why would you believe he would fight such a radical, revolutionary fight.

Sorry, but if the Democratic Party wanted a real fighter, there were plenty of more plausible candidates. We seemed to busy picking someone who is "electable"...but how can you be electable if you don't fight for a fair election? What would you not, as a Presidential candidate, demand that every vote has a paper-trail months before the election?

I really hope I'm wrong, but a lot of people here don't seem to understand how thoroughly this game is rigged.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Logical answers:
1. Kerry didn't think they'd cheat;

2. Kerry knew they would cheat; knew a great deal about how they would cheat; prepared extensively to prove they would cheat; knows the Electoral process better than most of us and knows exactly how much time remains to file charges.

Peace.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. In the meantime, we should be rallying 55+million of our....
....fellow citizens to DEMAND -- "Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

That is our responsibility as owners of the franchise.

Peace.
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. At least one more possibility
3) Kerry doesn't care. His job is to continue the fine American tradition of putting on a good show to control and fool the populace.
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moesse Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. That's an easy (and cowardly out) imho
Kerry may have been blessed with blue blood, but think about it: was he forced to go before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to testify on behalf of more than 800 really troubled veterans, knowing that it was a very unpopular thing to do?

Doubt it! He could've stayed in the background, grown fat off the blue-blood ties, and lived in wealth and power.

If the Skull and Bones link is so powerful, why did he go after the Bushes in the Iran-Contra hearings and come ohsoclose?

I think (hope) this is one skull & bonesian that weighed other things above those ties.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Ever
heard of BCCI?
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. Wow, my post became its own thread!
I'm the person who posted the tin foil hat theory that is the subject of this thread started by BlueDog2u. I posted it more than a week ago on the "I Believe" thread. Since it's that old, some updates are in order.

I keep seeing signs that people think something is going to happen. A friend shared an email that her 91-year-old aunt sent her, entitled "Something BIG is about to happen." The silence of the Dems and the lack of recriminations are still deafening.

The dates that I originally thought most likely for something to break are history now, and nothing happened. Obviously, I was wrong on that. Some others on other threads have suggested Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving, as a likely date. That, or even T-day itself, would be reasonable--the holiday would make it more difficult to activate the reactionary spin machine. Also if arrests are involved, the holiday dormancy of the court system (i.e., bail hearings) could result in some low-level accomplices and accessories spending a holiday weekend in jail and becoming more willing to sing.

Another thought on the law enforcement line--Diebold has an operation in Canada (Vancouver, I think). There was a story about sending one of their machines to Canada because they couldn't get it to give a vote count. That could involve the RCMP. Mounties wouldn't be risking their careers to investigate this, as FBI agents certainly would be.

But I'm losing hope for the big, one-shot, silver bullet expose. If T-day passes and nothing happens, then I think we're in for a protracted struggle like Watergate was, to get at the truth. Support Bev and Ida et al.

If the Democratic party really is rolling over and doesn't fight this, then it's dead, history. Forget next time, there won't be one. Refer to the paragraph "Finally, they have to realize (don't they?)" in the original post.

On the other hand, if it does blow up in the repigs' faces, then I think the Republican party is dead. This is several orders of magnitude bigger than Watergate or Teapot Dome or anything else in American history. This is overthrowing the legitimate government of the U.S. Even the "family values" crowd would have to admit that they didn't sign up for "Soprano family values" and would have to go somewhere else.

Either way, I think we're at the point of the first major party re-alignment since the Civil War, and one of today's major parties is going down. Either the repigs for their massive criminality or the Dems for their massive wimpiness and failure to defend basic democracy.

Finally a couple side notes:

If the downstream media really wanted to get rid of internet conspiracy theories, they could support the one reform that would do so--auditable, paper trail voting. "Prove my vote counts, now."

Another deafening voice of silence that I didn't mention in the original post is Michael Moore. Something is still up with all the silence, but it could as likely be that they've all been threatened with cage #1 at Gulag Guantanamo by the new permanent one-party theocracy. If they play along and pretend to be a real opposition party to preserve the illusion of democracy, even though they know that they will never be allowed to have any real power, then they get to stay out of the gulag.

Finally, for the "I Believe" folks, I'm visualizing twenty years from now an old, grey-haired, stoop-shouldered Karl Rove, the bitch of his cellmates Jock, Rocko, and One-Eye.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I want to thank you for your thoughts -- I was very uplifted reading
your post & the entire thread...until I read all the conspiracy theories about how democracy is dead, a long thread started by a cryptic post by saracat: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=68962

About Michael Moore, his silence is especially worth noting because he isn't afraid to speak out about anything. If he's been threatened in some way, wouldn't he be shutting down production of "Fahrenheit 9-11 Part Two"?
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. I am ready to march clear across the country if necessary
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