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Lisa Williams and her Clairvoyance, fact or fiction?

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centristgrandpa Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:59 AM
Original message
Lisa Williams and her Clairvoyance, fact or fiction?
Taken with a grain of salt, I’m quite bewildered with her abilities. Is she truly communicating with those who are in the hereafter or does Lisa have the special gift of reading human thoughts?

What is the underlying methodology to her distinctive talent or is this purely an entertainment program with hidden falsehood?

I am quite perplexed by the results and my wife totally believes Lisa’s obvious gift. There is room of doubt but I am open if others can convince me to her extraordinary endowment.

Please, my inquiry is double edged, I’m curious about your thoughts and the other is a light-hearted query.

http://www.lisawilliams.com/
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endless october Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. i hadn't heard of her.
i hate to always be the skeptic killjoy. my mom believes in this kind of stuff, and i sometimes get mild feelings about things, too. however, somebody like this could participate in a scientific study to "prove" their abilities. such a person would become extraordinarily famous if the scientific method could prove the ability really exists. however, most of them are just happy to give out vague, generalized advice to people who want to believe.
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centristgrandpa Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. those who want to believe...
Her pin point accuracy with those she helps is interestingly surprising. I can't say one way or the other but i'm still open. Wishful is an overstatement.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wouldn't send her money. n/t
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centristgrandpa Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. neither would i... n/t
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fiction
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centristgrandpa Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. thanks for the link...
"In the course of a successful reading, the psychic may provide most of the words, but it is the client that provides most of the meaning and all of the significance." --Ian Rowland (2000: 60)

could not agree more...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. With all due respect to your wife....
Lisa Williams is, like James Van Praagh, John Edward and many others like them, a very skilled "cold reader" who, nonetheless, may believe she has special powers and that she "helps" people.

Your mind plays tricks on you all the time. When you add to the mix that most people are not very educated when it comes to statistics and probability and that we have evolved to "see patterns", we often see patterns which simply aren't there.

For example, my dear, sweet, late aunt was always remarking that a lottery winner "just knew that he was going to win the lottery". The problem, of course, is that the story is anecdotal, doesn't take into account the number of previous times this guy "just knew he was going to win" yet didn't and, more importantly, fails to take into account that probably nearly all lottery ticket holders "just knew they were going to win" but didn't. That second group is far larger than the guy that "knew he was going to win" and actually did.

James Randi (the Amazing Randi in a prior life) has devoted his life after his career as a "magician" to debunking phony psychics, as well as people who claim to communicate with the dead. When you watch people like Lisa Williams, note how they highlight the hits (when they get something right) but downplay the misses (when they get something totally wrong). Watch how many times people who claim to communicate with the dead will begin their message to you with a question (for example, "why is your dear, departed (fill in the blank) talking about XYZ?" or "Who is XYZ". Also notice that when the person they're supposedly "reading" for contradicts anything they say, they either say something like, "Well, that is not what XYZ is telling me" or "That must mean it hasn't happened yet".

Think about what really drives their success. Who WOULDN'T want to communicate with a departed relative (who, in many cases, died tragically or far too soon)? On the other hand, why would your departed beloved choose to talk to you through a charlatan? Are they supposedly on hold somewhere just waiting for this charlatan to contact them on your behalf? Why don't they communicate with you in another way? In the case of someone who was murdered, why wouldn't they communicate enough information to Williams or someone else so that the murderer could be brought to justice? Have you ever heard Williams say to anyone, "well, I just cannot seem to contact XYZ"? Wouldn't the fact that they can supposedly contact anyone at will be more than a little unlikely, assuming the power to contact ANY departed relative even existed in the first place?

http://www.randi.org/site/

You can find out more about this through the James Randi educational foundation.
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centristgrandpa Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. thanks for the thought provoking post...
"Why don't they communicate with you in another way?" This question you ask is what gives me doubt..

Houdini on his death bed offer his loving wife "if there is any way that i can communicate with you from the hereafter, I will." After 20 some years of trying, they have quit. This speaks volumes about communicating with the other side.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. More on Lisa Williams
JUST ANOTHER COLD READER

I’ve been referred to a series of “readings” – actually carefully-selected video excerpts – by one Lisa Williams, a “psychic” who took the fancy of a SWIFT reader in Belgium. He then wrote me to extol her virtues, not recognizing that she’s using the same old “cold reading” technique that they all use. Williams says she’s also a healer and an authority on crystals – with all the woo–woo connotations that those subjects summon up. Go to that URL – tinyurl.com/347yxo – and view the first two excerpts, labeled “Kim & Kris,” and “Robin,” respectively, then consider this short analysis that I’ve prepared.

Re the first video, Williams has “contacted” a spirit at the request of the two women, Kim and Kris. She starts out her fishing expedition by saying:

Whoever this woman is, she’s a real chatterbox.

Now, this is an effective way of actually asking who the “woman” is, by both stating that (a) she – Williams – doesn’t know, thus encouraging that further data be provided, and (b) by tossing in an innocuous “chatterbox” qualification. The victims react as expected, nodding, “Yes,” though this observation could apply to almost anyone, so it’s of no real significance, and if it had missed – that is, if the spirit is actually one of a laconic, shy, uncommunicative person – it could still be a “hit.” I say that because on one occasion when John Edward – remember him, the “Crossing Over” show? – gave a reading, the victim was greatly impressed simply because Edward had designated the ghost of her mother as being “enthusiastic, loud, outgoing, and chatty.” And – get this – the victim took that as proof that it was her mother’s ghost, saying with breathless enthusiasm:

You know, in life, my Mom was very shy, withdrawn, and quiet! I’m so happy to know that now she’s in Heaven, she’s become so changed!

Notice: Edward’s guess about the spirit was 100% wrong, but this woman so greatly wanted – needed – this to be the shade of her mother, that she turned it into a “hit”!

Another requirement in cold reading, is that it’s important to elicit as many “yes” answers as possible, so that an overall impression of success is produced. Williams continues:

She’s abs… Okay, she’s giving me, “mom,” so I would have to say she feels like a “mom” figure. Is this “mom”?

Note: Williams says that she has been “given” the “mom” impression, and now she needs to extract either acceptance or rejection of this guess from the victims. She also says that she “would have to say” that this “feels like” – rather than it is, to provisionally label this as only an interpretation – a guess – rather than as a statement, so that she can excuse it if it’s wrong. Williams finally just asks directly if her guess is correct, and gets immediate affirmation from the victims. This sort of detail is often incorrectly recounted by the victim as, “She told me that was my mom!” when she asked if it was…

The second video, of “Robin,” evidently used another tried-and-true ploy of cold reading guessing technique: “I have two persons here, one older than the other.” This immediately provides twice as many possibilities, and if the ghost that is not accepted is also dropped by the reader, no one notices. Williams says:

The younger guy’s very comical, real funny, you know, he enjoys life.

Again, if the subject actually had zero sense of humor when he was alive, this can be turned into “he’s comical now in Heaven”; in any case, it’s a generality. Williams goes on, fishing for a cause of death or injury:

Someone hit my jaw! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! Did your brother have a problem with his jaw?

Again, this is a direct question, typical of cold reading. Note that we’re not told whether Williams was guessing at an altercation, a dentist appointment, a fall, an accident, a hereditary condition, or anything specific; the victim is expected to fill in the details, and of course she does. The immediate answer from Robin is:

He had a really bad accident.

But pay close attention to this next question from Williams:

Were there questions about his passing?

When someone dies in an accident, there are invariably such questions, and this is a very good guess to make in a cold reading. But it’s the very quick response that Williams offers – even interrupting the brief “yes” affirmation – that is significant here. She jumps in, adding:

…because he’s telling me there were questions about his death.

This is a gimmick also often used in cold reading by James Van Praagh, making a guess and then when receiving an affirmative answer quickly following it up with “…because he’s telling me…” and giving back the same information that was just elicited from the victim, as if it came from the ghost. Also, notice that Williams – as with any cold reader – is asking questions, not telling the victim anything!

Readers may wish to view some of the other videos on this site, to further look into the “cold reading” methods, and report on them. Meanwhile, to my correspondent in Belgium: Lisa Williams is just another cold reader, nothing more.


http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/172-swift-march-7-2008.html#i4


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centristgrandpa Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. usual suspects...
I came into this post with an open mimd knowing that DU sources would help me decide whether Lisa's abilities were genuine or far fetched. Still open but leaning towards fiction. thanks for the info and link...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I'd say she's very skilled but...
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 08:14 PM by SDuderstadt
I don't remotely believe she can communicate with the dead.

if they're really in communication with your departed loved ones, why does she have to ask so many questions (BTW, which is what a cold reader does)? Wouldn't she know the answer already? Why isn't the loved one giving her definitive answers?

For example, on an episode of William's show on Lifetime, she's interviewing two relatively young Arican-Americans in Hollywood. Among the questions she's asking (to both in general) is whether they know someone who met a violent end. My question would be how many young African-Americans in urban Southern California DON'T know someone who has met an end like that. If she's really genuine, why doesn't she know which one of the guys the "spirit" knows?

Again, with all due respect to "believers", I believe strongly that what makes it "work" is the desire nearly everyone would have for it to work.
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centristgrandpa Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. she is....
Totally agree with your respectful reply.

What's amazing with all the elements that make life so special is your thought provoking quote "I believe strongly that what makes it "work" is the desire nearly everyone would have for it to work".

So true, 10,000 ways...

I had an interesting experience after my grandma passed into the other world, one day after a long day at work (away from home) I closed the curtains and lit some candles without any preconceived notions, within moments i was overwhelm with grandma's present. Can't explain this wonderful experience but it has never happen again.

thanks again...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. If you're open to the alternate explanation...
I should say upfront that I am, in no way, religious, but I understand and respect why peo0ple are. As I said before, our minds sometimes "play tricks" on us. One part of the brain controls the feeling of being alone and another part controls the sensation of others being around. Sometimes those triggers misfire or are out of sync, the hairs on the back of our head stand on end and we "feel" like we're not alone, no matter how solitary our actual situation might be. It's really a matter of interpretation.

I'm just fine with whatever people want to make of it themselves, because I believe we have all developed some heuristic for navigating life. The only time I would probably speak up is in a group situation where there is some sort of challenge (all the way up to, and including, life-threatening and someone says, "My late Aunt Sophie is here with us and is telling us to choose this way out", etc.
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centristgrandpa Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. can't explain this situation...
What i found interesting with my "grandma's" situation was...I did not plan or was thinking about her, the situation happen without cause. I won't say it was subliminal but all thing consider, I'm still perplex by the experience.

I'm not religious in any way too but spirituality is a way of life for me and my wife.

Thanks for your input and i hope that many will share their experience with this post, just curious with the thoughts of fun while blogging...

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