How would you rate your perception of religion in general?

[More Than A Feeling]

Poll question: How would you rate your perception of religion in general?

This is the first in a series of polls to measure the perceptions of the various beliefs and non-beliefs. 10 is the most positive, and 1 is the most negative.

[jakem]

1. its like this...

thought it does of course depend on the religion and the way it is practiced.

there are sensible and profound threads within all religions. it is the mass marketing of dogma that gets problematic...

[krispos42]

2. Excellent graphic!

:yourock:

[Straight Shooter]

5. I need that graphic for a poster on my office wall.

:toast:

[piesRsquare]

8. That graphic is really rude and insulting!

Some of us are actually religious AND scientific. And "faith" is NOT the same as "religion"!

The fanatically-religious Right and the anti-religious Left are tearing this country apart!

Check out this organization, why don't you:

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://www.au.org

Take a GOOD LOOK at what organizations are affiliated with this group! And while you're at it, read some of what the founder, Barry Lynn, actually has to say!

[More Than A Feeling]

9. How is the "anti-religious left" tearing this country apart?

[SidDithers]

10. .

:nopity:

Sid

[toddaa]

11. Please explain how the graphic is rude and insulting

Show your work.

[Goblinmonger]

13. How nice

that it isn't you at fault. Do you ever sprain your finger pointing it at others so much?

Still waiting for those specifics you were asked about as to how the "anti-religious" left is ruining the country. I doubt we will hear anything.

[Meshuga]

17. I don't find the chart to be a good representation of religion in general...

But that is my opinion.

While this chart is great to demonstrate how the fundamentalist use their faith to explain science, I disagree with applying the "faith flow chart" to represent all people of faith. Not all People of faith adhere to the chart to solve their scientific questions or even their theological questions.

In my experience, being a member of a Jewish congregation with the core membership being scientists (from the NIH, to be more specific) I find hard to believe that would be the case. At the classes and discussions provided by the congregation I see many examples of the spiritual being and the rational being co-existing inside the same person without a conflict. Spirituality and fact based debates are never mixed since they are apples and oranges.

When the leadership of the congregation includes a brilliant physicist in addition to the president of the congregation being a literal rocket scientist (who actually worked for and who was part of the Apollo projects) I find really tough to come to a conclusion that all people of faith are that naive to use the "faith flow chart" presented in this post for any purpose.

The faith flow chart is a good representation of the process of people having blind faith who don't like their beliefs questioned but many people of faith welcome questioning and have no use for that faith flow chart.

[More Than A Feeling]

18. I see a contradiction.

Between this

Spirituality and fact based debates are never mixed since they are apples and oranges.

and your last sentence:

The faith flow chart is a good representation of the process of people having blind faith who don't like their beliefs questioned but many people of faith welcome questioning and have no use for that faith flow chart.

What is questioning if not attempting to determine the truth of one's beliefs, and how can someone doing that separate spirituality and fact based debates?

[Meshuga]

22. I would see the contradiction

in the way you connected the two but in the first exerpt I was referring to the classes and discussions at my congregation, how spirituality and fact based debates are not mixed. And in my last paragraph I was stating my opinion about people of faith in general. These are scientists who look at science for the questions about how things in our physical world came about and how things work but look to religion for human relationship and spirituality.

Sure, by questioning you are attempting to determine the truth of one's beliefs but just because a person believes in something it doesn't mean he/she is sure the belief is a fact. It's a belief. Faith has a different meaning in Judaism otherwise we would have to classify most religious Jews as agnostics since questioning and doubt is very important in Judaism more so than faith.

[More Than A Feeling]

24. So Judaism realizes that just holding beliefs doesn't guarantee their truth?

I didn't know that, but that approach is very close to my own (and I actually do classify myself as an agnostic). Is it the approach taken by all the different Jewish denominations, or just the more liberal Reform and Reconstructionist ones?

[Meshuga]

25. It is an approach taken

mostly by the non-orthodox branches (Conservative, Reform, and Reconstrucionalist) although the conservative movement has a small wing of neo-orthodox rabbis and congregations that might take a slightly different approach.

The orthodox in general adheres to the 13 principles of faith compiled by Maimonides in the twelfth century. They believe the Torah was literally given to Moses by God so that requires some pretty strong faith, I would think. But you will see an orthodox rabbi explaining that the other name for the Jewish people is People Israel and that Israel means wrestling/struggling with God. Saying that it is the nature of a Jew to question.

At Passover questioning is actually mandated. On Passover one is commanded to question. "Four questions" traditionally recited by children are written into the Passover Haggadah. But, according to the Talmud, even more important are the spontaneous questions that emerge from real curiosity, rather than mere rote. For example, "Why in the world are we doing this?"

The Talmud which is about challenging and questioning, and sacred to both orthodox and non-orthodox, does preach this approach of questioning, for example, there is a Midrashic teaching that tells us that god says he would prefer his children abandon him completely as long as they follow his commandments since through deeds they will eventually find him. Jews find their spirituality by performing deeds (the mitzvah system). Most rabbis will tell you that Judaism emphasizes deed over creed.

As I see it, the Reform puts emphasis on the ethical teachings, the conservative gives equal importance to tradition and ethical teachings, and the orthodox puts emphasis on the tradition.

[piesRsquare]

30. Thank you

"Israel" means "to wrestle with God". Jews are COMMANDED to question God's existence. There is no doctrine in Judaism...we are are religion/people based on LAWS (deeds/acts/behaviors), not on DOGMA (beliefs).

"There is but one God, and what is hateful to you do not do to another person. That is the entire Torah. Go and study." --Rabbi Hillel

The "religious" Right and the anti-religious Left are tearing the country apart TOGETHER by poisoning it with their intolerance, negativity and hatred. And I'm sick of it!

If someone doesn't believe in God, that's his/her business, and I really don't care. But just because I DO believe in God, and consider myself a religious person, that does NOT mean that I don't use reason, that I ignore facts, etc etc. And for someone to imply that I do, simply because I'm a "person of faith", is frankly just as prejudiced and offensive as someone telling me I'm evil and immoral because I'm not a Christian!

To the OP and the person who posted that graphic: What do you care if other people are religious, so long as they hold the same values and share the same causes as you? So long as they show respect for you and your personal beliefs? I haven't given anyone any shit about being non-religious or otherwise...why do you throw shit at those of us who are?

I'm religious, and I strongly believe in the separation of Church and State, and I have just as many beefs (if not more) with the "religious" Right as anyone here on DU. In posting graphics like that "science/faith" one above, you are spitting on your allies--and that's a mistake.

I have a sticker on my refridgerator; it says: "Proud Member of the Religious Left"

Try doing what you want the Jesus-freaks to do with their own beliefs, and keep your atheism to yourself; I'm sick of hearing about it!

Or else take your fight to the wingnuts--where it belongs!

[sakabatou]

27. Exactly

[rurallib]

3. Nothing lower than a 1?

[BayCityProgressive]

4. I think

liberal Episcopalians, Reform Jews, Bhuddists, pagans and nature religions, QUakers, United Church of Christ, and some strands of Hinduism, Islam, and even groups like the Catholic Workers are good. Unfortunatelty, most religious groups in this country are absolutely hideous which is why I voted "3". Any group that denies science when they don't like the fatcs or doesn't allow debate on issues is useless and cult like.

[Meshuga]

14. My thoughts are close to yours

All the groups you said although I am biased towards "Reform Jews" since I am part of that group. But I would add any non-orthodox form of Judaism (conservative and reconstrucionalist) and a small part of the orthodox since they don't deny science when they don't like the facts and welcome any sort of debate that brings up questioning.

Any group not wanting to convert the other and that leaves other groups alone are okay in my book.

Fundamentalists and loonies eat up a lot of the points from the total score.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. I noted the term "religion"

which is not necessarily the same as spirituality. I based my vote on that difference.

[More Than A Feeling]

12. What is the difference, do you think?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. Religion is organized

it is practiced in groups, and has rituals and dogmas that are repeated regularly.

Spirituality is personal, and not dependent on any religion or dogma, but rather on experience.

[Meshuga]

16. Yep, one can be spiritual

but not belong to a religion.

[NMMNG]

29. One can even be spiritual

and not believe in gods.

[kiahzero]

23. That's one definition, but not a necessary one. (n/t)

[piesRsquare]

31. Judaism has no dogma, no doctrine...

...and each and every person's relationship to God is individual and personal.

The word "Rabbi" means "Teacher". A Rabbi is neither a holy person, nor any closer to God than anyone else. An individual Rabbi is not an authoritative figure. S/he is a scholar and a teacher, not a moral or religious authority. Rabbinic ordination requires a bachelor's degree plus five years of Rabbinical School (graduate school). All texts are read/studied in their original languages (Hebrew/Aramaic), and approached from both an academic and religious perspective.

Missionizing/proselytizing is strictly forbidden in all movements of Judaism.

"Do you believe in God" is a pretty much a forbidden question, as a person's relationship to God is strictly between the person and God, and nobody is permitted to discuss said relationship unless the individual brings it up voluntarily.

Jews are commanded to study, question, discuss, and debate the Torah--and in general. Blind acceptance and following of it in its literal sense is strictly forbidden.

Famous joke: "Ask two Rabbis a question and you'll get three opinions"

Denying scientific fact is a no-no, in the sense that you'll get scolded to go brush up on your studies and pay attention in school. To study science (to study any discipline) is to study the Universe, which is God's creation--hence, the study and understanding of science brings us closer to God! Science and study is never heretical in Judaism; these things are revered...

[Warpy]

7. The fudegelicals, yahoos, rapture addled and

screwballs who merge Calvinism with Rand have all done their jobs well.

They've finally given religion itself a bad name.

[zonmoy]

59. you mean religion didn't already have a bad name before them.

[Evoman]

19. Honestly? I feel like religion is beneath me..I feel like I'm too good for it.

I don't like systems of belief that rely on ignorance in order to survive. Its not contempt though...its hard to explain. Sometimes I think that the common person needs it..and that makes me sad. Because although I want answers, and seek answers, I am capable of accepting that I don't know. I don't need to feel like the centre of the universe. I don't need to feel like the universe gives a shit about me. I don't need to believe that I keep going after I, or people I love, die.

I am alone, I am tiny, and I don't matter at all. And I find that terribly exciting ;)

[BurtWorm]

20. Bottom of the barrel.

Religion seems to make a lot of people very stupid. Marx was right.

[redqueen]

21. You'd have to define "religion" for me...

before I could give an honest answer.

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/05/30/armstrong/

[WritingIsMyReligion]

26. I'll give it a 2, just for mercy's sake.

Religious people have done plenty good. But then again, so have non-religious people. :shrug:

Religion itself is inanity.

[Mojambo]

33. That was my take. n/t

[AngryOldDem]

28. I have no use for it right now.

Marx was right: It's an opium for the masses.

[NAO]

32. Religion is a mind virus; cognitive equivalent of smallpox, but harder to eradicate

[westerebus]

34. A small eight.

What was it that both bound and dismembered Christian Europe? What is it that connects the Muslim crescent from the Caucuses to Indonesia? What Tribes still wander that keep Passover? Of the three major religions in the west,who claims the Old and New Testaments? If a Chinese is a Taoist and a Japanese a Shintoist and can either be Buddhist?
How about charity? How about human rights? How about education? How about the fundamental dignity of man? The right to life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness endowed by his creator? How did they come up with that idea?
We all recognize the failures. The death and prejudice done in the name of religion. If it is "the" evil then are we not bound to remove it from the face of the earth? Odd that it would be protected in our constitution don't you think?
So where is your tolerance in all this? Human oh,so human.

[kiahzero]

35. Does this bother anyone else, even slightly?

Roughly 75% of respondents answered 1, 2, or 3, with 50% of total respondents answering 1 (as negative as is possible).

I wondered why pretty much every thread turned into a variation on the theme, "Religion sucks." I guess now I know.

[More Than A Feeling]

36. Why does this bother you? n/t

[kiahzero]

38. Because it confirms there's not much point in discussing theology here.

Is there a point when at least 50%, and probably 75%, of the people reading hate the topic of discussion?

[More Than A Feeling]

39. None of the DU religious groups have anywhere near the participation of R/T

Seems people don't discuss much theology among just fellow believers.

[kiahzero]

40. There's a difference between disagreeing and hating. (n/t)

[More Than A Feeling]

41. At the same time, complaints about "hating" can be seen

as attempts to duck either defending oneself in an argument, or conceding that no defense is possible, and that the point must be conceded.

[kiahzero]

42. I'm just reading the polling data.

If feeling as negative as possible towards something can't be called "hating" it, what can? :shrug:

[More Than A Feeling]

43. I did not realize that is what you were referencing.

I think you are still making an unwarranted assumption.

[kiahzero]

44. OK, let's assume you're right.

1) "1" isn't "hate."
1) "Hate" is defined as feeling extraordinarily negative towards some thing.
2) "Hate" exists.
3) A response of "1" in the poll is defined as feeling as negative as is possible towards religion, generally.
4) By 2, 3, and 4, "1" must be "hate."
5) Contradiction.

[westerebus]

37. Religion as in

the christian right wing of the repub war party? I can't see any possible connection to a negative sentiment based on religion in that context.:sarcasm:

[uppityperson]

45. Rate it for what purpose?

Need for a belief? Rules to live by? How it is applied? How it is interpreted? When? Too many factors to be this simplistic. Thank you anyways.

[More Than A Feeling]

50. I'm not going to help you out here.

Your perception is just that, your perception, and that is what I am asking. I know there are multiple factors that go into perception. If you feel the need to tell the rest of the forum what your factors were, go right on ahead. Otherwise, measure each question by your own factors, and weight them as you think they ought to be.

[westerebus]

52. As a punching bag from the looks of it.

With so much energy put into its negative side and religion has that side, the structure it has appears and is understood as dangerous to the world by the majority who posted here. So it may not be so simplistic, more cause and effect,a gut reaction of anger for some at the mention of it.
How do you rate another person's belief? The rules he lives by? How flexible are those rules? Who gets to interpret them?
How in a historic sense has mankind benefited from religion? If it bonds one to another in common cause and for a reasonable purpose does that make it good? Saying burying the dead with in a day's time. Is this good for mankind?
One of the earliest purposes of writing was to encode laws that gave authority a his toy. The use of numbers to count what that authority was owed? If either or both were religious in the nature of how they came into being,does that diminish their worth? Think Egyptian and pre christian.

[Evoman]

53. ACTUALLY.....lol.

"Saying burying the dead with in a day's time. Is this good for mankind?"

It would be better for human kind if we either cremated everybody, or even did some sort of composting with dead bodies.

I'm just sayin :shrug:

P.S. I don't care what happens to my body...I've told people to find the cheapest possible method of disposal..either that, or cremate me and use my ashes for a barbecue..yes, I am sick and morbid!

[westerebus]

57. I'm glad you see the humor.

What would life be without the sick and morbid? A sad place indeed. LOL

[uppityperson]

56. Religion has its good purposes, but can be, and is often, misinterpreted/used wrongly.

Beginning with rules to live by, how to survive and prosper, moving through "why are we hear" wonderment, then off to bonding with others. Interpretations and wrong useage of all of these makes me look askance at any "organized religion", especially since it seems most have the same basis at their beginnings, just a bit different way of doing or looking at things. So, though I can and do criticize the interpretations of "organized religion" as a whole, I cannot rate anyone's religion as it all depends.

Don't hurt people. Don't hurt things. The rest is window dressing.

[westerebus]

58. Opinions differ.

Live and let live.

[Desertrose]

46. Geez, this looks like

the flip side of the atheist poll.

The way this poll is stated...seems too simplistic and pointless to me.

Also pretty clear that this "room" is definitely skewed.....which makes the poll basically worthless.

[varkam]

47. It would be worthless if

we were trying to generalize the results to a larger population. As it stands, the poll doesn't claim to be scientific in nature nor does it claim to be able to estimate an other population's views. It's just seeing what people here think.

[Desertrose]

49. It only proves who is voting here.

From the votes it appears only that atheists are more likely to voice their opinions here, not necessarily what people are thinking.

[varkam]

54. I know many Christians who have a negative perception of religion eom

[varkam]

48. In general, religion is a blight upon humanity.

Generally speaking.

[Evoman]

51. In general, I find your general generalizations of generals to be too general

to make a general comment on your generalizations.

[saltpoint]

55. I went with '5' because it's nondescript and in the dead middle.

I don't know if by "religion" someone means Pope Leo X, or St. Francis.

Or Jim Dobson or Matthew Fox.

Or those nutbags who wrote the "Left Behind" series or Elaine Pagels.

If you let me pick the religion topics and messengers, I like it better than when somebody else tries to pick them for me.