Can a man and woman married to each other be excommunicated for having sex with each other?

[Boojatta]

Suppose that it is discovered that one of them is infertile. If the justification for sex is reproduction, then what is their justification for having sex after they know that they cannot reproduce?

[rateyes]

1. I guess the church can do whatever it wants...

as ridiculous as it gets about these kinds of things. I knew a woman who had been married for 3 years, and then divorced. A year later the Catholic diocese sent her a letter asking if she would agree to an annulment of the marriage (saying that it never existed) in order that her ex-husband might have a Catholic Wedding with a new bride...and, thus get around the "not marrying anyone who has been divorced" rule.

She refused. The church gave him the annulment anyway.

How hypocritical is that?

[Dorian Gray]

5. They didn't need to ask her...

Annullments don't work like a divorce. They don't need to have informed consent of both parties. It's a decree by the church saying that certain aspects of marriage are missing in order to consider the marriage a sacrament.

You either believe it or you don't. I have no problem with the existence of annulments or Decrees of Nullity (slightly different. That's saying a marriage is not a valid sacrament if not performed in the Catholic Church). I do, however, think both are misused, as any societal construct.

[rateyes]

7. I still think it's hypocritical bullshit to get around

the "divorce" question.

[Dorian Gray]

11. A lot of people do

and when put into practice, I suppose that it's often abused. But, you still need to get a civil divorce in the USA if you want to remarry legally. The Annulment doesn't count for jack squat in the eyes of our laws.

And our legal divorces don't count for jack squat in the eyes of the Catholic Church.

(I've obtained both a legal divorce and a Decree of Nullity after my first marriage.)

[John Gauger]

10. That's bullshit.

The marriage did indeed exist. You can't just sign a paper that says otherwise and make it so.

[Dorian Gray]

12. It's not so much saying

that the marriage didn't exist, though that's how people like to explain it. An annulment actually means that the marriage didn't meet the church's criteria for a sacrament, so it's not binding by church law.

A Decree of Nullity means that the marriage was never performed as a sacrament within the catholic church, so a sacramental marriage is now allowed within church doctrinal beliefs.

They are slightly different things. I'm not making a judgment either way on the two things. Just saying what they are and how they are used by the church.

[Ian David]

2. In the Catholic "Church", you can get married if you're infertile, but not if you're impotent.

There was a documentary about a South American couple that the "church" did that to a few years back.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Nope

AFAIK, excommunication requires some kind of malicious intent -- or writing a book of theology that the Doctors of the Church dislike.

Plus, the issue has been ruled on by church law -- several times.

It's tough to get excommunicated in the RC church, and excommunication is easily rescinded. The priests and bishops that go around excommunicating members for things like supporting right-to-choose laws are quite frequently overruled.

For more details, you'd have to check a theological website, perhaps one of the Vatican's.

No, the church is not a paragon of rationality, but it's not entirely heavy-handed.

--p!

[xchrom]

4. why would they be excommunicated?

do you mean divorced?

[Dorian Gray]

6. Nope...

They can't.

[rug]

8. Beasides, reproduction is not the sole justification for sex.

[knitter4democracy]

9. Which church?

If you mean the RCC, then the answer is no. If you mean the Eastern Orthodox Church, then the answer is no. I'm not sure which other churches excommunicate, per se, but honestly, I can't think of any that would.

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, our theology says that sex is not solely for procreation as it is not a sin. We have a different take on it than the Western churches.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. You DO come up with the weirdest questions, Boojatta

and not just on this forum.

[Evoman]

14. I asked the pope.

He told me, "Don't worry none dog.....just keep on gettin' the wick wet, son. Just keep on hittin' that shit, and sendin' me a cheque".


I guess that's your answer :shrug:

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. Damned to Hell for having non-reproductive sex, yes.

But if the Church were to excommunicate everyone whom Church doctrine had damned to Hell, there would be no one for the priests to molest.

[Dorian Gray]

16. The church

doesn't say that non-reproductive sex, even outside of marriage, will lead to eternal damnation. (Roman Catholic Church, that is.)

[TechBear_Seattle]

17. It is a venal sin, and unconfessed venal sins lead to damnation

Those who know that what they are doing is a venal sin must make a genuine effort to avoid doing that sin, so it will not work to make regular confession then go home and have sex with your wife. Deliberately pursuing venal sin, knowing that it is a sin, is apostasy from the One True Church (according to RCC doctrine) and thus is a mortal sin, ie a fast track, one way ticket down.

There really is no where to go: engaging in consentual, non-reproductive sex will, according to Catholic doctrine, send you to Hell. There is no way around that.

[Dorian Gray]

20. First of all

.... Unconfessed Venal sins are a problem. But that has nothing to do with this because.....

Second of all, having sex with your spouse is not considered a venal sin. Even if you can't have children.

[Meshuga]

18. They are fine and in a better position than most others: no excommunication necessary

The couple can say that they are trying really hard and hoping for a miracle. They pray every time they have sex for the woman to become pregnant. You know, their intention is to have a kid even if the odds are against them. People who believe in miracles should not have a problem with this infertile couple frequently working toward a miracle conception.

Therefore, the husband and wife described by the OP have a better excuse to have lots of sex than the people who have no fertility issues and would have to use contraceptives in order to avoid pregnancy.

[Evoman]

21. "We keep on praying to god that the condom will break, that the birth control won't work,

and that the spermicidal jelly, intra-uterine device, and the suction vacuum won't work but, Father, god still hasn't answered our prayers and she is not yet with child."

[Meshuga]

22. LOL!

We can start a "Daily Tips for Catholics" website on how to get around not going to hell while enjoying life to its fullest.

[NoodleBoy]

19. You have a point, but,