Variation in divorce rates by religion:

[cosmik debris]

% have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

Ron Barrier, Spokesperson for American Atheists remarked on these findings with some rather caustic comments against organized religion. He said:

"These findings confirm what I have been saying these last five years. Since Atheist ethics are of a higher caliber than religious morals, it stands to reason that our families would be dedicated more to each other than to some invisible monitor in the sky. With Atheism, women and men are equally responsible for a healthy marriage. There is no room in Atheist ethics for the type of 'submissive' nonsense preached by Baptists and other Christian and/or Jewish groups. Atheists reject, and rightly so, the primitive patriarchal attitudes so prevalent in many religions with respect to marriage."

[Hydra]

1. Haha

I was just listening to a religious program yesterday that was touting the benefits of religion on marriage. I love studies like this that show the truth.

Too bad the truth doesn't shut those people up...but I suppose, "When did it ever?"

[BOSSHOG]

2. These numbers could not possibly be right

Each and every christian married couple spend every waking moment maintaining the sanctity of marriage. Their wedding vows say they will not part until death and by gawd that is the way it is in every christian conservative family valued loving, caring christian household. Thank God gays can't marry or the whole fucking world would go straight to fucking hell. Just ask any minister with a collection plate in his hand.

[cosmik debris]

4. I can't vouch for the numbers

I just wanted something to discuss besides obama/clinton/kennedy.

[BOSSHOG]

5. Bless You My Friend

What a great idea.

[cosmik debris]

7. Well, it was either divorce or...

http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/figures/figure4.htm

I opted for divorce.

:)

[DeSwiss]

9. Damn!

- What's up with Alaska and Chlamydia???


BTW, nice article. I think I'll share... ;)

[damntexdem]

3. Hey, we agnostics and atheists have some real work to do to get our divorce rates up to par!

Quick, call your spouse and insult him or her!

;-)

[Mountainman]

6. "Atheist ethics are of a higher caliber than religious morals," What?

Your motive for being good is not the question it is what are the results of your actions. Or in other words what is the karma your actions bring about. Causes = actions effects = karma or results.

One group having more or less divorces can not show one belief system superior to another.

To me, if a born again acts in a way to bring about good karma it is meaningless what his motives are,

same as with an Atheist, the motive for doing what he/she does is meaningless.

[cosmik debris]

8. The author of that quote makes the assumption

That all atheists have the same ethics. In reality atheists are not a homogeneous group and no generalization can be made about "atheist ethics".

[JerseygirlCT]

25. That struck me as well

I'd like to ask the author to try and define his terms.

In the same vein, you really can't simplify and quantify religious morals into one bucket like that, either. Too many variables.

I dislike that sort of simplistic thinking, especially when it's so self-serving.

[cosmik debris]

26. At least religious groups self-identify

with certain general values. Atheists don't.

[JerseygirlCT]

27. Yes, true.

Not arguing that point at all. I'm just saying that "religious" is a mighty big tent to stuff all people of faith into.

[PassingFair]

29. Maybe he's one of those "Fundamentalist Atheists" people are always ...

going on about!

[ZombieHorde]

18. Aren't motives causes that have effects?

It seems like a mistake to separate motive from human behavior.

[54anickel]

10. Perhaps the fact that the atheist,agnostics aren't generally "guilted" into marriage to begin with

may have a role? :shrug:

[cosmik debris]

11. generally?

I'll bet you have a nice anecdote to back up that generalization don't you?

:crazy:

[54anickel]

16. Shotgun....n/t

[cosmik debris]

19. Your implication is that atheists feel no guilt

regarding unwanted pregnancy. I don't know where you got that idea, but it is incorrect.

[54anickel]

21. Sorry, guess I misunderstood your "generally" comment. What my original post

about not generally not being "guilted" into marriage - and perhaps I'm wrong - but atheist, agnostics and even some emotionally healthy Christians (I believe they do exist) are "generally" free from the hang ups around pre-marital sex.

The shotgun reply was just being a smart-ass because I obviously misunderstood your "generally" with the :crazy: smilie reply. I was not implying an atheist would feel no guilt regarding an unwanted pregnancy - just the opposite - That it would be an example where someone might be "guilted" into marriage - though not necessarily for the same reason as a theist.

My bad, my apologies. I just didn't, and still don't get your reply. I'm a bit slow - I'm afraid you've got to spell things out for me in a bit more detail.

[cosmik debris]

22. I just didn't, and still don't get your first post.

But I suppose it doesn't matter.

[54anickel]

23. It doesn't matter. But can I tell you a story and maybe you'll see where my head is at?

I've got a niece, in her late 20s, very devote "Born again" Christian. Swore no "hanky-panky" until she was married. She's hardly ever dated (not because she's ugly) because she's a "stick in the mud" with a lot of hang-ups. So she meets this guy at some church singles function and they hit it off enough to where the guy takes her out a couple more times. Next thing you know they're engaged, have the wedding all planned and set for September. They just freakin' met in March for Crissake! What's the rush? Oh yeah, both are members of some promise thingie - no sex until marriage, and they're horny-as-hell but don't want to spend eternity there.

That's what I mean by "guilted" into marriage. It's an expectation among the community of most churches. "Your having sex with so-and-so? Surely you're going to get married to get right with God!" I've known quite a few "theist" who basically got married due to raging hormones and once the flames died down they decided they had nothing worth salvaging in their marriage. For some reason divorce tends to have less "guilt stigma" than pre-marital sex in some religions - go figure. :shrug:

That probably still doesn't make sense and now I just sound like some old rambling idiot! But hey, I AM old, and now tired to boot....

Good night cosmik debris,
you're right, it doesn't matter :hi:

[Beregond2]

12. A 3% difference is statistically not significant.

How is this an arguement for atheism?

[FiveGoodMen]

13. Not an argument for atheism -- a refutation of a religious wing-nut talking point

[Sanity Claws]

14. How do you know?

Whether it is statistically significant would be determined by sample size.

[central scrutinizer]

17. You are correct

Statistical significance can be greatly affected by sample size. If your samples are huge, tiny differences will be "statistically significant" while having no practical significance. On the other hand, apparently huge differences may not be "statistically significance" if the populations have a lot of variation and the sample sizes are small. By the way, I teach statistics at a University so i do know what I am talking about.

[Zodiak]

15. That is incorrect

Statistical significance is a function of more than the magnitude of change, it also factors in the number of treatment groups and the number of observations within each treatment group. Also, a convention for what constitutes statistical significance must be agreed upon (the typical error rate or p-value is 0.05).

Since this information is not given in the context of this OP, one cannot make any assumptions about statistical significance.

[cosmik debris]

20. If you need more info,

check the foot notes at the end of the article linked to in the OP.

[Silent3]

24. Is there really such a thing as "atheist ethics"?

As many atheists who post here, myself included, have taken pains to point out repeatedly, atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in deities. Merely lacking such belief does not automatically lead to any specific ethical system. It seems to me that many atheists are also secular humanists, so I suppose you could say that "atheist ethics" means "ethics typical of many atheists", but it's a potentially misleading term.

[trotsky]

28. A very good point.

"Ethics typical of many atheists" would be a much more appropriate phrase. We have no priests telling us how to think.

[cosmik debris]

30. I only posted that quote

to stir up some shit.

I guess my flame bait is getting old and weak like me.

:)

[Silent3]

31. No true Scotsman

From the article (underline emphasis mine):

Tom Ellis of the Southern Baptist Convention suggests that the Barna poll is inaccurate because the people contacted may have called themselves born-again Christians, without having previously made a real commitment to God. He said: "We believe that there is something more to being a Christian...Just saying you are Christian is not going to guarantee that your marriage is going to stay together."

The obvious response to these unfavorable divorce statistics is simply to declare that those who get divorced were never really true Christians, their devotion to God and Biblical principles was incomplete, and therefore these divorces don't count. Using this kind of "reasoning" one can conclude that divorce is impossible for true Christians, and that the true Christian divorce rate is 0%. :)

What I'd really like to see is stats on divorce rates for mixed atheist/fundamentalist marriages. Somehow, someway, such marriages do happen, but it's hard to imagine many of them holding together for long.

[moggie]

32. Did you see the quote from David Popenoe?

From the page linked in the OP:

David Popenoe, co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University has said that the survey doesn't make sense. He based this belief on his assessment that Christians follow biblical models of the family, making a bond that "the secular world doesn't have...It just stands to reason that the bond of religion is protective of marriage, and I believe it is."

Haha, great scholarship there!

Incidentally, Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the US, and also has gay marriage. It'd be really cool if, when enough time has passed for meaningful statistics to be available, it's found that gay marriages result in fewer divorces than straight marriages. Imagine the exploding heads!

[Kitty Herder]

33. I am bothered by all the condemnation of divorce, as if being divorced is

a moral failing. Yes, divorce can sad and if there are children, it can be hard on the children. (Although, in some cases, where there is abuse or constant arguing, it can make life much better for the children.) But divorce frees people from abusive marriages and dreadfully unhappy marriages. My own mother was judged harshly by our little Mormon community for divorcing my father, even though he was abusive to her and seeking a divorce was the best choice for her.

And even when there is no abuse, we shouldn't see the failure of a marriage as the moral failing of the individuals involved. Sometimes no on is at fault. There are simply irreconcilable differences. Should we condemn people who are miserable together to stay together for life?