A question for those who are NOT fundamentalists but who are religious on their own accord

[hyphenate]

This is probably going to be the strangest post you will ever read. Oh no, probably not. But I have to preface with some sort of an explanation so you will understand what I'm looking for.

I have ofttimes said that fundamentalists are so seriously backward in the efforts to remove evolution from books and thought, and who are on a path to total distruction because the thought of the future coming at such a fast rate, because they are afraid.

They're afraid that they're wrong.
They're afraid of what might await us out in the cosmos.
They're afraid that everything they love will be taken from them when first contact is finally made.
They're afraid of one thing even more--that aliens will not look like humans.

In their dogma, human beings were created in the image of their god. So what will happen when the first alien race looks absolutely nothing like us? Those who believe in the literal translation of the bible will be unable to relate aliens to whatever dogma they have held all their lives. I'm sure many of them will commit suicide, while others will go berzerk and start killing others, including aliens if they can. Most people will be fine with whatever comes, but these who who made themselves so insulated from the rest of the world will reject the science and the aliens.

Now, since I have to get back to this novel soon, I wonder if anyone agrees with my stipulation, or if people have their own thinking about how such religious fanatics would behave. I might not change my main premise, but I can always have individual characters have different opinions.

Let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks.

[metapunditedgy]

1. They'll adapt like they always have. We may be close to finding "bacteria" on Mars, for example.

(If it even exists.) Years ago, I would have thought this would send creationists into a frenzy. As the possibility comes closer, it looks like the approach will be:

First, question the science. (Very important to do, actually.)

Second, question the implications. E.g., perhaps Mars was "seeded" with cells from earth from a meteor strike or a contaminated lander.

Third, adapt their theology without making it look like a fundamental change.

Fundamentalism wants to survive, after all. It will adapt as necessary while hiding the fact that it is changing... fundamentally.

[murielm99]

2. They will say that God put the bacteria there to test our faith.

That is what they say about fossils.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. I suspect very few would go over the edge...

unless led there by a far more charismatic leader than any around now.

I don't buy that it's fear that's driving most of them, although apprehension of the unknown is a basic human characterisitc, and applies to most of us, not just fundies and not just about religion.

No, I think it's the familiarity with the mythos they have lived with all their lives and are comfortable with. Should green aliens with six eyes and enormous sex organs show themselves one day, the fundies will be little more upset about it than anyone else. Should said aliens lay claim to initiating panspermia and prove that claim, the fundies will simply find a way to fit God into it somehow.

Remember that when Newton invented a better telescope and redefined physics, he kept making the point that it showed how fortunte it was that God was running the show because we poor mortals could never have invented such a sublime system for running the universe. Today's theologians, while generally not in Newton's class in physics, are still able to make that sort of argument.

On another note, I don't remember the title or author, but I do remember reading a science fiction story about a priest on a starship that had come across a wasted solar system. It may have been a war, the sun may have gone nova, or something else spectaculary dreadful and making much light happened. All civilization in the planetary system was wiped out by the catastrophe, which was calculated to have happened around the year 0 or 1 AD in our time.

The priest then had a "crisis of faith"

[exboyfil]

6. A classic Clarke short story - "The Star"

[Occam Bandage]

4. There is a book that you want to read, badly, though you may not yet be aware of it.

It is called, "The Battle for God," by Karen Armstrong. It is a full and fascinating history of modern fundamentalist movements in the Abrahamic religions. It is inexpensive and well-researched, and would provide a great deal of context for your book.

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-God-Karen-Armstrong/dp/0345391691

Oh, and not to be impolite, but your theories are bunk. "Fundamentalists act the way they do because they're afraid aliens will come" is about as correct as "Muslims act the way they do because they're afraid Jesus will come back and judge them."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. Armstrong's position is that fundamentalism appeals to those who have

been harmed or disadvantaged by the modern world and want to cling to a mythical past. They're not afraid of future aliens. They're afraid that they'll have trouble surviving in the present as American WalMart employees or middle-class Saudis who still have to live with their parents at age 35 because there are no jobs for them or Indian peasants who are in debt slavery.

[Sandrine for you]

10. Yep, exactly what happen with the roman empire, the historic looser

become christians.

[infidel dog]

15. Excellent book. Highly recommended.

[exboyfil]

5. I have a friend at work who is an engineer

and very intelligent. He is actually a very good engineer, but he believes in literal creationism (Earth 6,000 years old etc). I can't reason with him on this point, and I have completely given up.

Lots of science fiction has dealt with this concept (mankind encountering sentient aliens). Several theories exist include the following:

1. Mankind is a special creation of God and these other beings, no matter how sentient, do not have souls.
2. God has worked out another plan of salvation for these beings. This point gets really interesting if they also have a religion which believes in a sufferring God who dies for His people.
3. Christ has died for all sentient being, and it is our obligation to evangelize all sentient beings (I would assume this would include species we might one day "Uplift" like dolphins or other primates).

Most Christians I know would not have a problem with encountering non-sentient life. Sentient life would start quite a discussion though.

As far as image of God, most Christians I know do not consider this a literal "image" but the fact that we are self aware, eternal creatures with free will.

[moggie]

7. Well, duh

Sentient aliens = demons, obviously! Sure, it might seem like they're good and wise and have our best interests at heart, but they're really sent by Satan to test our faith.

[Sandrine for you]

9. I Think there is a South Park about this situation, the fund"s take

money to build starship to evangelize the alien.

[Igel]

11. I think it's typical thinking.

That's not a compliment, but I don't think "typical" is an insult, either.

Most people look at those they disagree with, those that they don't know and don't care to know, those that are in some group they consider to be vaguely adversarial or in opposition, and attribute bad motives to them.

Islamists are insane; they're afraid of modernity; they're acting out because of repression. Fundamentalist Xians act out of hate; they act out of fear; they're afraid of modernity. The devil isn't as black as they paint him (to quote a Russian proverb).

We, progressive/moderate/enlightened/intelligent embrace modernity, we act only out of love and compassion. A decent contingent hates vaccines; some think that 9/11 was the act of local political enemies and there are no enemies beyond their borders; they think that all the hate they spew is love and all that the opposite spews is hate. Apparently angels aren't as white as they paint them, either.

I've known a lot of fundies. Some--like some liberals--base their thinking in fear. They want somebody to take care of them, to protect them from the horrible forces that exist around them, from their horrible enemies, political and economic. They're afraid of being unemployed; of having their skill-set rendered obsolete; of losing their jobs to people of some other race, ethnicity, or political persuasion. Most aren't like this. They firmly believe in what they believe in for positive reasons; if you ask, some fear lurks at the edges (just as those who believe in helping the poor for liberal reasons will also express some fear at the idea of being unemployed), but that's peripheral to their thinking. Overall, I think I've met more fear-based, self-righteous liberals than I have fear-based, self-righteous fundies, but I don't claim a random sample. Most conservative fundies have considered humility a good trait; most liberals, not so much, but, I repeat, it's not like I've set up a random sample of conservative fundies and liberals.

If fundies run into sentient aliens, those from another planet, they will have a few different possible responses. One I read a year or two ago in a copy of Asimov's--some set about trying to convert them, while others treated them like they would Jews or Muslims, they have their own god(s), to each their own. Others will consider that Jesus said he had sheep not of that particular flock--perhaps he meant on other planets, something difficult to tell Jews in 30 AD. Perhaps they'll have to admit their god isn't god of the universe, but of the solar system; or that he manifests himself in different ways. Some, no doubt, would want to kill--but not always out of religious reasons; some are just xenophobic, and perceive the aliens as either corrupting influences or out to deceive them with lies. Use your own imagination.

Diverse group, stands to reason there'd be a range of responses.

While you're at it, consider that "fundies" isn't just "Xian fundies". There are two kinds of Buddhism, various quasi-religious philosophies, and Islam to ponder. How would UBL react to aliens arriving? What would the Muslim Brotherhood say?

Moreover, what if the obligatorily enlightened aliens have their own kind of creed(s) that they firmly believe in? If we're their first alien encounter, might that not throw a spanner into their works, as well? And if they look down at all earthly creeds, and consider atheists to be among the most backwards?

Lots of options. Don't limit yourself.

[Jim__]

12. Well said - n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

13. I think you're on to something, but I think it works if you interpret

aliens in a broader, more literary sense. Different. Different is what they fear. Their small vision of God is in such a tight box that they don't have room to see God as anything beyond their tightly constricted vision.

So yes, a wholly different entity from outer space would be a problem. But, you don't need a space suit to see that someone with different skin color, or gender, or sexual orientation, or different beliefs - any and all of that is enough to stir that fear. I don't think we'd see their behavior very much different, actually, if confronted by an alien species than what we see now when confronted with anything outside their little box.

[charlie]

17. Yep, all true

They're a mean bunch of parochial tightasses all right. Scaredy cats.

Space aliens might be more than just a problem for some of them, though. I once heard Billy Graham say categorically that extraterrestrial life was UN-possible because it conflicted with his theology. Little green men would make a mockery of Jesus' mission on earth, or somesuch. If it's not in the Bible... you know the rest.

You'd guess none of them get the Discovery channel. You can't get away from bizarro, utterly alien life in the oceans.

[Strong Atheist]

14. IF aliens are ever discovered/contacted

(which would be nice; I been reading SF since I was 8 or 9, but according to Einstein due to the speed of light limitation it will never happen), I imagine that some very small fraction of a percent will have difficulty with it, but most will simply rationalize it into their belief system. Humans are REALLY GOOD at rationalization...

[RagAss]

19. True...Humans are concepts themselves....concepts are good with concepts !

[Marrah_G]

16. I agree with you

yes I am religious. I am for lack of a better word "clergy" in my faith. ( actually title would be High Priestess). I have zero issues integrating science and scape exploration with my beliefs.

I believe there is intelligent life out there. I believe someday we will travel the stars. My son wants to be an aerospace engineer and help get us there. I hope someday he accomplishes that.

I believe you are correct in your assessments of fundies.


Oh yes...and if the Gods of Old are really little gray/green men as shown on Stargate.... I am more then okay with that ! (we have a very different way of viewing dieties)

[RagAss]

18. self delete

[Critters2]

20. The best way to find out what people think is to ask them. There are few fundamentalists

here, so asking this question on DU makes no sense. Find a fundamentalist site, and ask them how they would feel if aliens who did not look like us were discovered.

I find it disrespectful to talk about people behind their backs. And as a Christian on DU, who often finds others defining my faith for me, I've pretty much committed to NOT doing the same for others. If I want to know what fundamentalists believe, I find one and ask him or her.

[mikelewis]

21. And Enoch walked with God... And Elijah was taken up into heaven in a whirlwind...

When the aliens come down and they are humans, though altered by thousands of years of necessary and intelligently designed evolutionary alterations... will you believe then? Enoch was taken up into the heavens thousands of years ago as was Elijah, though admittedly sometime later... perhaps their ancestors were able to survive the harsh alien planet God deposited them upon and they have been waiting for countless millennium to return to their long lost family. When they return and we can map their alien DNA and find the missing link between them and us... then will you believe in Christ or will we have to turn your body over to Satan for the preservation of your immortal soul?