Sophie Morris: Sarkozy's right: the burqa is a tool of repression

[IndianaGreen]

Sophie Morris: Sarkozy's right: the burqa is a tool of repression

Wednesday, 24 June 2009

As I was pushing my way down a busy high street on Sunday afternoon, I got stuck in one of those awkward crowds at the corner of another large road. There's no real pedestrian right of way in these circumstances, so we all set to the mannered side-stepping and edging forwards required to get through the jam.

I was stuck in the slow lane behind a pram when I noticed a woman coming in the opposite direction, who was getting absolutely nowhere, shoved to the back not just by the onwards traffic but by those coming from behind her and from all sides too. I remember her because she was wearing a burqa.

She wasn't getting anywhere because, if anyone had noticed her, they weren't treating her as part of the scrum. Pushing your way through a crowd requires a degree of engagement with those you're pushing against – impossible if you cannot make eye contact. As her skirt was so long and roomy, who knew whether she had one foot in front of the other, a stance that signals you're about to start moving, or not?

How rubbish it must be to be stuck inside such heavy black clothing on one of Britain's few sunny days, with the world swirling around you as if you were a lamppost, for that's about the level of interaction she could have with passers-by without engaging them in conversation.

I also felt depressed – depressed that here was a woman entirely shrouding her identity in public. Depressed that she was denied even that most basic social interaction with strangers that comes with walking down a busy street. Most of all it depressed me off because it reminded me of what no one – Muslim, misguided liberal or anyone else – can dissuade me of, which is that the burqa is a tool of oppression.

On Monday, President Sarkozy took issue with the proliferation of women wearing the burqa in France, weighing into the debate on whether, as a secular country, the French Republic might outlaw the veiling of one's body from head to toe in public. "The burqa is not a religious sign," he said.

"It is a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement... in our country we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity."

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/sophie-morris-sarkozys-right-the-burqa-is-a-tool-of-repression-1715937.html

[RandomThoughts]

1. I don't like to dispute religious traditions.

And societies get to pick their own traditions.

But I think the burqa is more of an ideological tradition. I keep thinking on how the faults of lustful men are the reason women have to wear a burqa. Doesn't seem right.

I also read an article that some priest back in early Judaism became more and more rigid in rules to try and stop the same thing. Those priest were instructed to walk looking at the ground so seeing a women would not bring possible sinful thoughts.

I think one of the tactics of evil when it is attacking someone is to force them into smaller and smaller worlds by making the person think everything he does is wrong, thereby making a person who could do good, completely occupied with areas that he has not perfected.

One of the big writers in Christianity also had issues with lust, and made many of the rules about trying to limit such thought.

And the puritan men unable to handle thoughts of women, also set standards of dress and contact to help men deal with the attraction of the beauty of women.

If any of the above are the argument for the burqa, then men should take responsibility for their own weakness. Either strength up and only see beauty, or wear dark shades when out in public so they can't see women.

But honestly I think it is a male control thing. If women have equal rights, then they might be able to pick their own husband, instead of the most powerful male getting his pick of a wife.

There is an argument for the fairness of women through modesty, because of many men's weakness of lust, women should be somewhat modest so that they are not just objects of lust, but also can be seen as thoughtful people, but the burqa goes way to far trying to do that in my view.

She wasn't getting anywhere because, if anyone had noticed her, they weren't treating her as part of the scrum. Pushing your way through a crowd requires a degree of engagement with those you're pushing against – impossible if you cannot make eye contact. As her skirt was so long and roomy, who knew whether she had one foot in front of the other, a stance that signals you're about to start moving, or not?

I also felt depressed – depressed that here was a woman entirely shrouding her identity in public. Depressed that she was denied even that most basic social interaction with strangers that comes with walking down a busy street. Most of all it depressed me off because it reminded me of what no one – Muslim, misguided liberal or anyone else – can dissuade me of, which is that the burqa is a tool of oppression.

That story brings saddens me also. very emotional, I would want to walk in front of her and part the crowd for her.

[Sebass1271]

2. I agree with the President. The Burqas should not be allowed

if they want to live in a secular government. The burqa can also be used as a hiding garment for terrorists.

[Lorax7844]

3. k and r

excellent editorial

[moggie]

4. It's a difficult issue for a liberal

What do you do about an abused wife who keeps defending, and returning to, her no-good husband? You can try to persuade her he's a bum, work on her self esteem, explain about Stockholm syndrome, provide her with a safe way out... but, at the end of the day, you can't force her to make what you believe is the right decision.

A culture which puts pressure on women to cover up or else, while allowing the men much more freedom, is misogynist and should be criticised for that. But when many of its women claim, with apparent sincerity, that it's their choice to dress that way, should they be denied that right?

[Bobbieo]

5. I live in the desert Southwest - a climate similar of that in Iran. I also suffer

from asthma and it stiffles me to think of those poor women wearing that suffocating black garment in 110 to 115 degree summer heat.

[moggie]

6. We're talking about France

Or, more generally, western secular societies, where there is more freedom for women. Here in London, you'll sometimes see women dressed in the abaya, though most of our Muslim women settle for modest western dress plus a headscarf.

[DeSwiss]

7. "The burqa is a tool of repression"

- Agreed.

K&R

[moggie]

8. But would criminalising it help?

It's nice to think that the day after it's banned, women will stop being oppressed. But, let's face it, that's not going to happen.

What do you do if you make the burqa/abaya illegal, but a woman continues to wear it? Arrest her for being oppressed? Or force her to identify her husband, father, and brothers, so that you can arrest them? Yeah, that'll help. Or perhaps police could stop women in the street and fine them, so that the rich can continue to dress that way?

Nothing would please me more than to see this ridiculous garment disappear from our streets, but I think improving the lives of women would take a lot more than that token gesture.

[DeSwiss]

9. Oh I don't know.

It might be what these women have been waiting for someone to do for them, since they obviously can't do it for themselves. Reason and rational thinking can't be accomplished all at once. Not after centuries of religious brainwashing and BS. So it's one step at a time.

Because there's always the alternative position: What if it does work?

- It's a start.....

[Why Syzygy]

10. Worst case

They won't be allowed to leave the house at all.

[DeSwiss]

11. Rational Thought Of The Day

"No adult should be required to wear clothing, because someone else tells them that they have to. Except in cases where they're in prison."

[moggie]

13. You just want to go around without pants! n/t

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. "Islamic" dress has spread to societies where it wasn't traditional

A prime example is Malaysia, a steamy, tropical country. Ethnic Malays have been Muslim for centuries, but until about 15 years ago, Malay women wore lightweight cotton ankle-length skirts, lightweight cotton over-blouses, and Aunt Jemima scarves. When Islamic fundamentalism hit the country, you suddenly had some Malay women going around dressed like nuns, which seems like an insane way to dress in that climate.

[Withywindle]

22. Most of them still dress that way, from when I was there

I really liked a lot of the Malaysian Muslim styles, honestly - the women wore headscarves, yes, but didn't cover their faces, and the lightweight embroided loose trousers and tunics and skirts seemed very elegant and comfortable to me.

But yeah, I saw a few of the black full-face-veil things, and really felt for them. Covering the face actually has advantages IN THE FRAKKIN' DESERT because of sandstorms--I understand that Berber men often do as well--but in a humid tropical jungle climate I can't imagine anything more miserable.

[Silent3]

15. The burqa may well be "a tool of repression"...

...but laws dictating what people can and cannot wear in public are also another form of repression. Clothing can be as much a form of self-expression as speech. One should not take lightly any limitations on self-expression.

As obnoxious as it is to think of women being pressured by family, by their subculture, into wearing something like a burqa, I'm more offended by the idea of a woman being fined or arrested for wearing one.

I get the idea: we'd like to believe that many of these women would love to have an excuse not to wear a burqa, and by making it illegal you give them a good excuse against those who would otherwise pressure them into it. If Muslim husbands and fathers and brothers are given the choice of doing all the grocery shopping and other errands themselves, and giving up the income the women in their family bring home, or, on the other hand, letting the women in their family out on the street in something slightly more revealing than a tent, they'll probably choose the latter.

A few unlucky women might end up hidden from public entirely, however, by a few zealots.

And a few women, maybe even many, may want to wear a burqa of their own accord. That may well be due to a lifetime of conformity, of internalized social pressure that we'd like to "free" these women from, but it's a dangerous path you take when you decide that someone needs to be "set free" from their own "bad thinking", when you decide they need to be saved from themselves and the government should force that salvation.

One could take another approach to this issue: to not target the burqa specifically, but all clothing that conceals a person's identity. If that's the principle for banning burqas, however, do Halloween and Mardi Gras costumes become illegal to wear in public? Would someone who has a bandaged face need a note from their doctor to show the police if questioned? Would it become illegal for a celebrities or other public figures who want to move about it public more freely, without being recognized, to conceal their identities?

[redqueen]

16. IMO it's religion that's a tool of oppression.

The burqa/abaya is only one example of it.

Treat the disease, not the symptom.


And before anyone starts hyperventilating... no, it's not always used that way... but more than often enough to bother making an issue out of it. Way past time we did so, IMO.

[harvey007]

17. Viva la France!

Here's a great commentary in support of banning burqas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlkxlzTZc48

[Evoman]

18. They should have a program for women to trade in Burqas for Nike shoes.

or AK-47s. Or designer swimsuits.

[JerseygirlCT]

19. I know it makes people angry

but I have to agree. It may be a tool of oppression that some women say they willingly take on - but it's still a tool of oppression.

[lazarus]

20. Do away with them

how is the question. Criminalizing burqas seems almost counterproductive; the women will just be kept home, even more oppressed. I don't know the answer, but I do know the burqa is oppressive and should no longer be used.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. The first time I actually say women wearing abayas was in London

It was during a heat wave, and what was striking was that the men and boys accompanying these women were all wearing short-sleeved shirts with open collars. It looked as if they were exhibiting their supposed superiority by allowing themselves to be comfortable.

Western women used to wear layers of clothing in all weather, but so did men in those eras.

[Withywindle]

24. I've seen it from time to time in New York and Chicago too.

And yes, you're right - you've got these shrouded women accompanied by men and children in reasonable summer clothes. So yeah, you've got to wonder what is going on there?

Chador is the worst, though. :scared:



looks too much like this:




(although it would definitely be more progressive if the women got to carry a big sharp sword.)

[Withywindle]

23. I have such mixed feelings on this.

No, I don't think it's OK for anti-immigrant bigots like Sarkozy to impose his views on people.

On the other hand, I am a Westerner, and WOW does it creep me out to see people with their faces covered. We have this deeply ingrained, bred-in-the-bone notion that half of communication is nonverbal and most of it's done with facial expressions. That's most of the reason why I only use my phone to communicate with people far away and to set up face-to-face dates with people nearby; I don't LIKE trying to talk without that all-important extra dimension.

When I see someone with their face covered, I instinctively feel that (a) that's someone who's up to no good or (b) that's someone I can't really talk with beyond the basics. The only exceptions to this are when it's brutally cold outside, when it's Halloween or a costume party, or when the masked person is a stage performer of some kind.

I don't think I'm unique in this - I think this feeling is pretty general all over the Americas and Europe and non-Muslim Asia. And it isn't really about religion - a woman in a hijab or Mennonite bonnet or face-bearing nun's veil, or a man in a yarmulke or Sikh turban or Buddhist monk's robe don't produce this reaction. It's all about covering the FACE. And yeah, in a society where we rely on the face for identification and signifying of honesty, I don't think it's too much to ask that the face be shown.

[ZombieHorde]

25. If a society makes something illegal, then there should be some benefit.

Putting women in a situation where they are not allowed to leave the house is not a benefit. This law may make the situation much worse.

[ZombieHorde]

26. I thought about this some more and I now wonder if burqa enthusiasts

will just make a new outfit which will serve a similar purpose. Mumu + ski mask?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. That doesn't justify making it illegal, though.

Yes, I entirely agree, a dress code which puts massive pressure on women to cover their faces but no equivalent pressure on men to do anything similar, is sexist, repressive and immoral.

That doesn't, however, justify banning voluntary wearing of the burka.