Why are some Atheists considered to be intolerant?

[onehandle]

Poll question: Why are some Atheists considered to be intolerant?

(For the record, I have no problem with Atheists, just intolerance. Notice how I liberally used the word 'some,' unlike the push poll below.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x220239

[Taverner]

1. Or because some religous folks are surprised we're not kissing their deities ass?

[donco6]

2. Yes.

And that's being "intolerant." Pfft. Fuck them. How's that for intolerant?

[T Wolf]

12. EXACTLY! We are just intolerant of having someone else's "belief" shoved down our throats

constantly.

We are attacked personally as something less than worthwhile human beings and oppressed politically by an established theist government that incorporates many religious prejudices and bigotries into law.

Fuck that.

[Don Caballero]

3. Atheists are more annoying

than religious fanatics. I hate people who think they know everything.

[unpossibles]

6. then you must hate religious fanatics more

Atheists don't claim to "know everything" they just don't believe in God. People who believe in God do in fact claim to know that He exists despite any proof. Which one is claiming to have special knowledge?

[drm604]

7. It strikes me that religious fanatics are the ones who think they know everything. n/t

[Don Caballero]

9. Atheists know for a fact there is no God

and they will tell you about it all day long. The atheists I have come across in my life are as intolerant as religious fundamentalists.

[laconicsax]

14. Have you ever considered that they might be right?

Strictly speaking, it's impossible to know for certain that no gods exist, but it's pretty easy to look at the complete lack of evidence for their existence and conclude that they don't exist.

Do you believe in any of the following gods?

Zeus, Marduk, Amaterasu, Enlil, Rudra, Demeter, Odin, Helios, Myesyats, Ra, Teshub, Hephestus, Hanuman, Tian, Sebek, Hermes, Umai, Njord, Al-Uzza, Hazzi, Bishamon, Lakshmi, Vesta, Min, Anubis, Fukurokuju, Mot, Quetzalcoatl, Nut, Tefnut, Nergal, Vajravarahi, Aglaia, The Lu, Hevajra, Balor, Rhiannon, Atlas, Honir, Nusku, Kurukalla, Don, An, Macha, Jurojin, Govannon, Abarta,Hepat, Hahhimas, Apsu, Hyperion, Rhea, Aizen-Myoo, Nephthys, Potrimpo, Mati Syra Zemlya, Eos, Ea, Anu, Men Shen, Ansa, Cybele, Vohu Mano, Lao Jun, Gukurokuju, Yama, Manat, Itchita, The Lah-Dre, Nodens, Ebisu, Jumala, Coeus, Dana, Heimdall, Daksha, Gungnir, Hestia, Jupiter, Mahatala, Kataragama Deviyo, Mitra, Pusan, Perkuno, Epona, Ceridwen, Wakahiru-Me, Dumuzi, Forseti, Nammu, Zao Jun, The Gulses, Ahura Mazda, Kwannon, Durga, Inaras, Arianrhod, Lir, Metis, Nga, Ouranos, Cliodhna, Attar, Yuqiang, Reshef, Taranis, Isis, Hannahanna, Teutates, Morrigan, Menulis, Pattini, Mahadevi, The Marutus, Goibhniu, Dylan, Aine, Aphrodite, Coatlicue, Kadaklan, Bragi, Hodr, Izanami, Boru Deak Parudjar, Fjorgyn, Otshirvani, Shamash, Dionysus, Aten, Heruka, Euphrosyne, Adad, Nekhbet, Saturn, Inana, Guanyin, Clotho, Astarte, Inari, Gefion, Yam, Dagda, Shiva, Etain, Wayland, Nechtan, Hera, Men, Bastet, Agni, Svantovit, Aryaman, Poseidon, Hinkon, Hupasiyas, Camulos, Manawydan, Mithra, Hecate, Anat, Tomam, Al-Lat, Surya, Kumarbi, Attis, Taiyi Tianzun, Setesuyara, Tishtrya, Boreas, Aonghus, Shu, Leto, Sif, Santas, Hubal, Anahita, Faunus, Ishtar, Skuld, Veles, Adonis, Atropos, Tapio, Badb, Wadjet, Mandah, Freyr, Nerthus, Dyaus, Asclepius, Athena, Basamum, Amida, Anshar, Sadb, Wadd, Murukan, Kied Kie Jubmel, Uu,Cerdandi, Ereshkigal, Dazhbog, Lelwani, Sin, Ullikummi, Balder, Tsukiyomi, Artemis, Thoth, Tezcatlipoca, Dian Cecht, Utu, Baal, Iskur, Wen Chang, Ame-No-Uzume, Xolotl, The Daevas, Hades, Circe, Telepinu, Thor, Ninlil, Ganesha, Donn, Hachiman, Frigg, Vulcan, Saule, Ec, Nanna, Indra, Nu Gua, Tlaloc, Ninurta, Vidar, Patollo, Madder-Akka, Bhaga, Nemglan, Korrawi, Mnemosyne, Cernunnos, Es, Caer, Grid, Brigid, Perunu, Seth, Cronos, Juno, Lachesis, Tuoni, Tammuz, Khosadam, Prometheus, Persephone, Svarazic, Tyr, Hathor, Cupid, Vishnu, Maat, Moloch, Geb, Ukko, Apollo, Boann, Aglibol, Suku-Na-Bikona, Ruda, Varuna, Ulgan, Dhatr, Brahma, Eros, Anbay, Ninhursaga, Semara, Kishimo-Jin, Ganga, Llyr, Kurunta, Ida-Ten, Benten, Ogma, Freyja, Oceanos, Osiris, Susano-Wo, Horus, Vayu, Kegutsuchi, Vayu, Belenus, Loki, Ki, Nudd, Pan, Aditi, Karttikeya, Thalia, Taru, Minerva, Nasr, Idun, Neptune, Natha, Shou Lao, Gadd, Uke-Mochi, Mars, Leib-Olmai, Lugh, Mac Cecht, Izanagi, The Dagda, Marishi-Ten, Jurojin, Apep, Lei Gong, Khyung-gai, Huitzlopochtli, Eileithya, Taranis,Khnum, Amaethon, Geb, Hotei, Manannan Mac Lir, Prithivi, Shen Nong, Ebisu, El, Bellona, gShen-lha-od-dkar, Batara Kala, Psyche, Venus, Ningal, Urd, Ptah, Zarpanitu, Kuvera, Amon, Num, Searbhan, Shoten, Luonnotar, Neith, Daikoku, Kubaba, Indra, Aegir, Ariniddu, Mimir, Ares, Soma, Shaushka, Lugus, or Janus.

Because the evidence for their existence is just as strong as the evidence for the Abrahamic god.

[onehandle]

23. Maybe they all exist? You don't know.

Maybe Ganesha is standing behind you.





Made you look.

[laconicsax]

25. Maybe they do, but there's no good reason to suppose so.

There's no evidence that Ganesha exists. There's no evidence that any of the gods/goddesses I listed exist. Positive claims require evidence and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Just because it's impossible to know for certain either way doesn't mean that we can easily form a conclusion based on the available evidence.

No evidence means that the positive claim of a god's existence is more likely false than true. I don't believe that Ganesha exists because there's no evidence to support such a claim. Playing the agnostic card is just lazy.

Suppose that someone claimed that a race of mite-like creatures lived in Jupiter's atmosphere at a depth of a few miles in a handful of small colonies. Being so small, it would be impossible to detect them, meaning that it would be impossible to prove they don't exist. Would you consider their existence to be an unknowable issue and refuse to consider the chances either way or would you be sensible and see that the only evidence for their existence is the claim itself and tell the person making the claim that you don't believe in Jovian mites?

[PassingFair]

41. Hadn't you better get back to worshipping?

That's a LOT of beliefs to cater to!

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. You think maybe they might have just been reflecting your attitude

toward them?

[drm604]

22. Very few will state absolutely that there is no God. Not even Richard Dawkins.

Most simply believe that there is no evidence for a God or Gods, and therefore no reason to believe in such things. That is different from stating absolutely that something doesn't exist. I can't absolutely disprove leprechauns, but I do not see that as a reason to give any credibility to the idea that they exist.

I've never met anyone who would tell me about anything all day long, so I'm skeptical that you've met many atheists who've done so.

I will venture to say that for most of the atheists you've encountered, you weren't even aware that they were atheists. Most don't talk about it a lot, because it's not a driving force in their life.

The ones you became aware of were the small number who are annoying about it. You were aware of them because they were annoying, not because they were atheists.

I don't know you so I don't know if you wear your religiosity on your sleeve but, in some cases it's the religious people who are annoying about it and won't leave people alone. They end up driving non-religious people to be annoying in return. Then they go around complaining about "annoying atheists" when they themselves caused the people to snap at them by their own behavior.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

61. Can you back that up?

If not, it's anecdotal evidence - the worst kind.

[laconicsax]

10. Who claims knows everything?

Religious fanatics claim to know that only a specific god exists, what his thoughts are, and what happens to someone when they die.

What is it that atheists think that they know?

[DeSwiss]

27. But I've always found that.....

...people named "Don" are the most annoying of all.

- Wouldn't you say???

I'm NOT Annoying!!!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

30. Give me an example

of an atheist claiming to know everything. Just one. Please?

[PassingFair]

40. You're funny!

Atheists make no claim to "knowing".

Neither do "Agnostics".

It is the Abrahamic religions that
make claims to "revealed truth" and
knowing everything.

Silly you!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

47. I'm still waiting

I want to see concrete examples of atheists making statements claiming that they know everything. Is that too hard for you to do?

If you're going to make the bullshit claim, at least make a minimal attempt to backup your bullshit with some half-arsed examples of that bullshit.

[Taitertots]

66. Religious Fanatics are far worse by any measure

Atheists never claimed to know everything, just one thing. That there is no evidence for god and therefore no reason to believe it exists.

Religious Zealots claim to know everything. That god created and is responsible for all things, absent any evidence.

[no_hypocrisy]

4. I've been around atheists of all ilks.

The ones I couldn't tolerate were those with beliefs that couldn't be challenged or analyzed. They were as dogmatic as the Pope.

I'm more of a humanist who wants access "truth" on my terms which means listening to and questioning everything.

[MineralMan]

29. What beliefs do atheists hold?

Atheism is defined by disbelief, not belief. I'm one atheist. I disbelieve in all supernatural entities. I don't believe in any of them.

What would you say I believe?

[no_hypocrisy]

32. Do you mean atheists, freethinkers, humanists, or ethical culturists?

[MineralMan]

38. What did I write? I believe it was 'atheists.'

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[darkstar3]

33. English fail

Please look up the definitions of evangelical and fundamentalism and try again.

Evangelical atheist is an oxymoron. So is fundamentalist atheist.

[hughee99]

8. Just like any other group of people,

Atheists are capable of intolerance as well.

[BlooInBloo]

11. Because we don't as rule tolerate teh stupid.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Other - because people who accuse atheists of intolerance want to

justify their own intolerance of atheists.

[laconicsax]

15. +1

[darkstar3]

34. +1 from me too. n/t

[Exultant Democracy]

62. +1

[Taitertots]

67. +1

[ZombieHorde]

17. I have heard imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I am glad I have inspired you to create a poll.

I am getting some amusement from the fact I have been insulted for my anti-KKK poll but not my anti-Catholic Church poll. Du is fun.

eta: Your tribute poll has received more votes and comments than my two original polls. I am envious.

[Howardx]

18. since when are we supposed to tolerate stupidity?

not this kid.

[Taverner]

24. Or when are we to tolerate intolerance?

Say, we're supposed to respect the Christian's and Islam's HATE HATE HATE of gays?

[TygrBright]

19. Other-- See thread above. n/t

[onehandle]

21. on edit.

I'm not really sure which thread you are talking about.

[TygrBright]

26. uh, that would be this thread. All the posts above my post. n/t

[kestrel91316]

20. I've seen plenty of extremely intolerant statements by purported atheists

right here on DU. Of course, I have no way of knowing whether or not they are actually RW activists just trying to make genuine atheists look bad. Sadly, that is a definite possiblity.

[MineralMan]

28. What's a 'purported' atheist? I've never met one of those.

Is that someone pretending to be an atheist? I don't know any of those, either.

Could you give me an example of such a thing.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

31. Show me a couple

I want to see them. Please?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

46. I'm still waiting

All I hear is silence...

[uberllama42]

63. I can say for sure

that your sig line is as intolerant as anything I have read from an atheist in about six years on DU. In fact, if you had not referred to "extremely intolerant statements by purported atheists," I would have placed you based on your signature in the camp that many believers in this thread are complaining about.

I have no desire to defend the Religious Right in America, for which I have no small amount of animosity. But I do not think it is fair to compare a group that wants to ban abortion, on those grounds alone, to a faction that forces women to cover themselves at all times, attacks females who go to school, and who are willing to stone people to death for a slew of offenses, ranging from converting to Christianity to owning swine.

I do not know what has been said by atheists on this board that is more intolerant than the comparison between the "pro-life" movement in the United States and the Taliban. I suppose the comparison is subjective, but I fail to see why the atheists or alleged atheists on this board are more extreme or intolerant than anyone else.

[Sal316]

35. Because of statements like...

"Put my mind at ease? Eliminate religion"

and

"Ignorance is believing in magical beings"

and

"It's heartening to see that some Americans are coming out of their caves. The only way this nation along with this planet can progress is to discard its mythological, magical, voodoo, baggage by the wayside."

and

"Magical thinking inhibits logical and critical thinking."

and

"All religion is "stories" and superstiton. If we can "shrink" organized religions and finally make people understand really what they are, the world will definitely be a better place for it."

and

"Religion has done more bad than good."

and

"The faster people quit believing in fairy tales the better."

and

"It's high time to rid society of the blood-sucking perpetuators of hate and ignorance."

and

Just about everything in the International Blasphemy Day thread.

Most of the atheists here on DU whine and bitch about "religion being pushed on them", but I've yet to see one thread here in R/T where a liberal believer is actively seeking to convert people. Instead, what you see are the "New Atheists" here who take every single opportunity they can to denigrate, deride, insult, mock, and bash any and all believers, liberal or not. They all pile on like a bunch of Jr High bullies who need to feed their sense of self worth by trashing others.

The absolute disdain and broadbrushing that many of the atheists here have/do for people of faith is in the same class with those you condemn. It sinks to the level with "all Muslims are terrorists", "all Jews are greedy", "all Catholics are pedophiles", or whatever ugly, ignorant, bigoted stereotype you can think of.

It is, quite honestly, ugly, and serves no purpose but to show the world you're just an ignorant bigot as the Phelps clan or any other rabidly RW Fundamentalists.

....and you're supposed to be the smarter, more logical, more "enlightened" ones....or at least that's what you tell the people of faith here.

HA!

....a bunch of petulant children is more like it.

[PVnRT]

37. Wow. You're equating violent homophobia with pushy atheism.

I suppose nothing is really beneath you, is it?

[Sal316]

39. With "Pushy" atheism? No.

More like with the snide, dismissive, bigoted, "all religion is evil", "all believers are stupid", "the world would be better if we eliminated religion" type of atheism.

There's a difference.

"Pushy" atheism (or faith or whatever) is simply annoying.

The statements in my post go beyond pushy to downright discriminatory.

If you can't tell the difference between the "pushy" type and the type that uses bigoted stereotypes, then perhaps you ought to go back, reread my post, and apply those statements to another group for some perspective.

Until then, don't presume to lecture me about decorum.

[PVnRT]

42. There is not a single quote of yours

equivalent to "God hates fags" or "Kill all the queers" and you damn well know it. Those quotes are mocking religion, not calling for repression and death. Get a fucking grip.

[laconicsax]

43. Why do you think he cares?

Sal has demonstrated a willingness to go to any length to smear atheists. If he thinks something will attack atheists, he'll use it, no matter how dishonest or false it is.

[trotsky]

44. Bingo. A demonstrated history of using falsehoods to attack and demean atheists.

Sal316 has destroyed any credibility or moral ground he may have thought he once had.

[Sal316]

50. Are we a little sensitive?

Wait for me to care........
.....nope, I don't.

Your criticism would mean so much more if it didn't come from someone who used strawmen and falsehoods to attack and demean believers.



Oh...wait.....


....nope, still don't.

[trotsky]

54. Didn't expect you to care.

Lying for Jesus is a tradition as old as your religion. But I do think you project very well.

[Taitertots]

69. Considering no one who wrote the new testament ever...

Met Jesus, met anyone who met Jesus, spoke the same language as Jesus, and many of them didn't even live in the same country as Jesus. It is safe to say that lying for Jesus IS their religion.

[Sal316]

49. Smear? No.

Call out bigots and ethically defensible positions?

Yes.

If you feel "smeared" because you realize you're defending a person who doesn't see the glaring ethical issues surrounding selective human breeding.....


...that's a you problem, not a me problem.

[laconicsax]

51. There's a difference between defending a person and pointing out that you lied.

But there's no need to get into that here, there's an entire other thread dedicated to you lying and insisting that even though what you said is false, it's still true.

[Sal316]

56. ..and that thread is full of.....

....you bickering over headline wording and being completely unable to grasp the big picture.

but that's neither here nor there.

[PVnRT]

53. I konw he doesn't

I just want to get on the record.

[Sal316]

48. ahh...the old moral relativism defense...

...aka "we're not as bad as them!"

Sorry, bigotry is bigotry.

Perhaps you'd have been more comfortable with the teabagger Obama=Monkey analogy instead of the Phelps'? At least in that one, death isn't involved.

[PVnRT]

52. Unsurprisingly, you still don't get it

You can't seem to find the difference between mocking an idea with hatred for peole. Is the concept that hard to grasp, or are you too wrapped up in the "Christians are the most persecuted people of all time!" mythology?

[Sal316]

55. Still defending your bigotry?

What goes on around here goes much further than mocking an idea, in fact it devolves to hatred and mockery of people.

But considering atheism is the product of an immature intellect, what else can one expect?

[Leontius]

57. How do you reach the conclusion that "atheism is

the product of an immature intellect"?

[PVnRT]

58. "Atheism is a product of an immature intellect"

Whatever, kiddo. It's clear you won't happy until all atheists are forced to either convert or be silenced, so good luck with that.

[Deep13]

59. Once again, here is my response.

I have it bookmarked so I can give the same response to the same arguments.

I notice you are not claiming that your quoted examples are factually wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=196408

[uberllama42]

64. You deride me and others as petulant children

yet you are probably the most fragile and petulant poster I have ever encountered on this site. When I read you squawking lugubriously about how horrible it is that some people disagree with you, I feel sorry for people who have actually been the subject of oppression and bigotry.

Why is it that almost none of the quotes you compiled to support your accusations of hate and bullying says anything more extreme than "there are bad ideas out there, and we'd be better off if people didn't believe those things"? Why is it that only the first and the last out of eight could be construed, even by someone as dishonest as you, as advocating coercion, let alone violence? Is this pitiful litany the only thing you have to support your wailing and gnashing of teeth? If so, I am profoundly unimpressed.

You have shown yourself to be pretentious, arrogant, condescending, petty, and mendacious. I have nothing but contempt for your ostentatious victim complex. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes, so be it.

ETA: condescending

[ChadwickHenryWard]

65. Oh for crying out loud.

That's what I call a raging persecution complex.

[Taitertots]

68. I'm sorry you have to hear that you are wrong

That is not intolerance.

The real intolerance is the bigotry keeping atheists from congress, judiciary, and presidency. The intolerance that pushes religious bigotry into government, discriminating against gays and other religious groups. The real intolerance has been the millenniums of religious conquest and religious violence.


Oh, but we are so intolerant that we tell you that you are wrong and mock you when your leaders molest children.

[cynatnite]

36. Well, considering how fucking intolerant the catholic church is...

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1883598,00.html

especially in regards to the rape of a 9 year old little girl by her stepfather...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

and also when it came to the sexual abuse perpetrated by priests and the coverup by the catholic church...

I'll stop being intolerant once the religions quit being so goddamn corrupt, hateful, hypocritical, and harmful.

[onager]

45. Because some Xians are hypocritical, thin-skinned whiners.

n/t

[Deep13]

60. Because we are intolerant of lies.

There is no virtue in tolerating lies or the evil they cause.

Even thought it really ought to be obvious at this point, the my intolerance is directed at bad ideas and not necessarily religious people. Despite my animosity toward Christianity as a belief system and the bad things it causes, that intolerance is not directed to Christian people who, like everyone else, are largely good and decent.