Did Jesus exist before he was born?..... ( allegedly)

[moobu2]

[Ozymanithrax]

1. In accordance with Christian Doctrine, yes.

In accordance with science, no.

[Mumble]

2. HE only existed/exists in the mythical sense.

[dbonds]

3. He went by the name Horus in the Egyptian culture.

Probably many more names in other cultures, the Sun god of harmony.

[Howler]

4. Yes Evidently as Mithra.

http://meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Mesopotamia/Mithraism/mithraism_and_christianity_i.htm




Most of the research into Mithraism, a religion with many parallels to Christianity, comes from two writers, Cumont and Ulansey. Some Similarities Between Mithraism and Christianity Among the recorded similarities are:
Virgin birth
Twelve followers
Killing and resurrection
Miracles
Birthdate on December 25
Morality
Mankind's savior
Known as the Light of the world
The Legend of Mithra


Read more: http://meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Mesopotamia/Mithraism/mithraism_and_christianity_i.htm#ixzz1BopP8rli


You have to scroll down the page for the mythos.

[Matt_in_STL]

17. One of my favorite Godzilla antagonists

What? Mithra and Mothra are two different beings? Hmmmm.....are they brothers perhaps? No?

Nevermind.

[Howler]

19. LOL!

Oh No Tokyo!!!!

[jody]

5. Did you exist before you were born? nt

[AlecBGreen]

6. a simple question w many possible answers

depending on what you believe to be true.

1) the historical person Jesus never existed, answer = no.

2) Jesus existed but was a human prophet and nothing more, answer = all parts of his soon-to-be-flesh existed as separate atoms since the Big Bang. He (the person) didnt exist until after conception.

3) Jesus was/is God in the flesh, answer = yes, His spirit has never NOT existed, through him all creation was made, including that which would eventually become his physical body.

[darkstar3]

8. One small but important point.

In possibility #2 you imply the usage of the familiar "Law" that "Matter can neither be created nor destroyed."

However, this simplification of the Law of Conservation of Matter neglects the possibility of transformation. The Law of Conservation of Matter is actually a corollary of the Law of Conservation of Energy, and it turns out that matter can be created and destroyed (after a fashion) by transforming into and out of states of energy.

A better possibility #2 would state that "all parts of his soon-to-be-flesh existed somewhere in the universe as either matter or energy since the Big Bang, just like everyone else."

(This misconceived meaning of the Law of Conservation of Matter is often cited by creationists as "proof" that creation is an absolute necessity.)

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

[AlecBGreen]

21. yup, you are correct

"let the record be so amended."

[sakabatou]

7. Depends what one would believe

Some believe that yes, Jesus always existed with God.
Others believe he was born when he was born and existed from then on.

I of course believe he never existed.

[sharesunited]

9. According to Him as cited in John 8:58. One of the heresies which got him in so much trouble.

[dimbear]

10. Exactly correct. One of the many heresies of the day. Another

comparable and equally interesting one, did Jesus qua Jesus exist before he was baptised?

[sharesunited]

14. According to John the Baptist as cited in John 1:28 - 1:34.

[madrchsod]

11. no...and he was`t the only miracle man....

[On the Road]

12. No, But His Parents Did

His relatives and successors never thought there was anything miraculous about his birth or anything special about his status as a human being.

[AlecBGreen]

16. i disagree, I think Mary had an idea

Not only was she visited before his birth, but we hear this from John:

1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4 “Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

This cracks me up. They are at a party, the wine is all gone, and Jesus mother says, 'Hey, do that thing you do!' and Jesus is all 'leave me alone mom!' and she just laughs and says to the servants 'watch this!'

[Igel]

13. Per the Nicene Creed, sure.

Per the NT, sure.

Within that universe, yes.

For the rest of the possible universes, just as in that universe, you make your assumptions and you determine your answer.

For some, if you have no evidence for something and no need to infer it, it's a fac that it never happened or existed. It's a nice heuristic. But it's a vexed problem when it comes to saying something about reality. This kind of thinking led people to dogmatically and emphatically deny the existence of Troy for a long time: If it's not proven to exist, then it could not have existed. Then some accursed true believer managed to find actual evidence that there was a Troy--not necessarily that every detail alleged for the place was true. So some continued to emphatically deny that there was any possibility of a Homer, because there was neither writing when Homer needed to exist nor was there any evidence of an early date for the Iliad. Until they examined the text carefully and found some real archaisms in the text, then found traces of earlier writing, so maybe there could have been a Homer that actually had the text recorded. Still, maybe there wasn't one--something may be possible and not need to exist any more than something may be unknown to have existed and yet actually was. Dogmatism seems unnecessary on either side.

[DeSwiss]

15. Does an idea exist before someone thinks of it?

- And what do you mean by exist?

[rug]

18. John 1:1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[frogmarch]

20. JWs and 7th Day Adventists think Jesus

existed as the archangel Michael before he became Jesus.