Question for Christians: Can Christians be assholes?

[Humanist_Activist]

I see this every time something comes up where Christians act like assholes, and what do you see? Other Christians claiming those aren't real Christian. Forget no true Scotsman, how about outright bigotry against all non-christians. What is it about Christians, true Christians that is, that make them act better than non-christians by default? Can any of you Christians on this board answer this question honestly?

[yourout]

1. From the sounds of it our Bishop here in Madison fits the bill nicely.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Details?

[yourout]

14. Here is a couple.....

<http://badgercatholic.blogspot.com/2011/03/bp-morlino-takes-heat-for-correcting.html>
<http://www.jsonline.mobi/more/news/wisconsin/121752014.htm>

Very recently at a 150 year celebration at a small local church he went on a 1/2 tirade about abortion.

[elocs]

3. Anybody can be assholes. That as simple and as true an answer as I can give. n/t

[struggle4progress]

28. +

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Yes, indeed, they can.

I would argue that the Apostle Paul was an asshole, as were the Medici Popes and a whole bunch of modern clergy. Catholic priests who molest children. Money-grubbing televangelists. Not to mention all the petty little assholes who infest church politics within particular parishes or congregations.

It goes back to the definition of a Christian. Arguably there was only ever one true Christian, since nobody since Jesus has ever lived up to his teachings. Everybody else is a sinner, and some are bigger sinners than others. Just because you want to call yourself a Christian, it doesn't mean you can't be an asshole.

[atreides1]

7. Paul was an asshole

He was the Stephen Baldwin of his time...the man went from one extreme, persecuting the followers of Christ, to the other extreme, attacking those who didn't follow Christ.

And just like Stepehn Baldwin he never stopped at the middle!

[DURHAM D]

5. I only know a handful of people who act like good christians.

And they are all atheists.

[Humanist_Activist]

6. How do good Christians act?

And what makes any of the attributes of the atheists you know even closely match anything in Christianity?

[polmaven]

8. First, let me say

I think there is a difference between non-Christians and "pretend" Christians. The vast majority of non-Christian people I know are no better or worse behaviorally than are my Christian friends. We simply come to our behavior along different paths. (Of course, I don't choose to associate with assholes if I can help it). Of course, nobody is even close to being perfect. I wouldn't even want to know "perfect"....That would be very irritating!

"Pretend" Christians, however, somehow read Bible loudly and frequently, but then act in a completely different manner than how I believe the Gospels tell them to. The Golden Rule says "Do unto others as YOU WOULD that the do unto you"....Not "BEFORE they do unto you". Jesus says "what you have done unto me you have done unto the least of your brethren".

Anyway, I think you catch my drift. I don't think that Christians are or act better than non-Christians...That is, of course, unless the non-Christians are actually assholes.

[Humanist_Activist]

9. "than how I believe the Gospels tell them to." ok, and what makes your beliefs...

About the Gospels right, and their beliefs wrong?

On edit: In addition, what makes you so sure your not the pretend Christian?

[polmaven]

18. Ok, fair question...

In addition to the two examples I have given already, I have never read anything in the Bible that says "you shall do all you can to take from the poor and give to the rich". I have never seen anything that says "the rich are the salt of the earth". Jesus told his followers that they should go into a closet to pray, and not pray in public as do the hypocrites. Of course, there are more examples, but they are all written in the Bible. As I said, those to whom I refer as "pretend" shout out these things, and then act exactly opposite to what they have just read, and seem to pick and choose which passages to follow and which to ignore.

I do not consider myself to be a flawless Christian. That doesn't exist. Even Jesus admitted to flaws. But every definition of Christian I have ever been taught, from grade 1 in Sunday school is what I try my hardest to remember.

LOL - I guess what makes me "so sure" I am not the pretend Christian is because mummy told me so so many times during my life. I recall our discussions often, and still try to listen to what she is "messaging" to me now. :hi:

[Humanist_Activist]

20. Don't you also pick and choose from the Bible?

From an outsiders perspective, everything you said doesn't really mean much, its all subjective and arbitrary, and you can interpret the Bible to mean anything you want. All that amounts to me not seeing a whole lot of difference between how you came about your beliefs and how the loudmouths came about theirs.

Also, I'd much rather that people tried to be better PEOPLE rather than better Christians, whatever that means.

[polmaven]

24. That is, if you really read it,

is basically what I said. "Also, I'd much rather that people tried to be better PEOPLE rather than better Christians, whatever that means." You are obviously here for the sole purpose of putting down those of us who are Christians, so I will not continue with this back and forth. I think you have every right to believe or not believe whatever you choose. I will never try to push my beliefs on you. You obviously are not of the same opinion.

Have a good day.

[Humanist_Activist]

29. How is wanting people to be better behaved a put down on Christianity?

If you want the truth, I think that Christianity is morally neutral in its hold over people's actions. In addition, under certain circumstances it can have an morally negative effect.

[demosincebirth]

10. Dumb question. Same as asking if atheists can be assholes.

[Humanist_Activist]

12. How many atheists claim that bad people who claim to be atheists aren't "real" atheists.

The question is only dumb when it has no merit, this one does.

[humblebum]

17. Oftentimes when someone says that they used to be an atheist,

a common retort is that they were never a real atheist or they wouldn't have stopped. you bet atheists claim that from time to time. Also, I here the term 'real Christian' from atheists a whole lot more than from Christians.

[darkstar3]

19. Link, or it didn't happen.

[humblebum]

21. I've got you as a witness. If you say it never happens, as you know it does,

then, you sir, are knowingly dishonest. But, I think I can come up with a link.

[cleanhippie]

33. Its been two days. How are you coming with finding that link?

[laconicsax]

39. It's almost been a week. Where's the link?

[cleanhippie]

40. WHERE IS THE LINK?

:shrug:

[laconicsax]

41. ...and a week later, still no link.

You didn't just make it up, did you?

[laconicsax]

42. 10 days and no link. n/t

[laconicsax]

43. You have that link yet?

It's been two weeks.

[laconicsax]

44. Still waiting for that link. n/t

[laconicsax]

47. You've had more than a month. Where's the link?

:shrug:

[trotsky]

48. Whoever it is must just be really busy, I guess! n/t

[deacon_sephiroth]

58. link plz... n/t

[kwassa]

22. Um, you are not responding to what the poster stated.

He said that atheists can be assholes, like anyone else.

Which is absolutely true, of course. Anyone from any group can be an asshole.

[darkstar3]

23. But that's not ALL that was said. The question was called "stupid",

which of course it is not, as HA showed.

[demosincebirth]

27. Huh?

[Humanist_Activist]

30. My post is a response of sorts to the no true scotsman fallacy that most...

Christians use to disclaim other Christians from their religion, when those Christians do something stupid or wrong.

[Critters2]

36. Ayn Rand was an atheist, so there ya go. nt

[PassingFair]

45. But she wasn't a REAL atheist.

This one's for LaconicSax.....

:rofl:

:hi:

[TreasonousBastard]

11. Of course Christians can be assholes, but...

not always as big an asshole as someone who asks them about it.

[MADem]

13. Absolutely!

As I have said elsewhere, too, some have no sense of delicious irony.

Some of them put down other religions, and see no conflict with the fact that they are worshipping a guy who lived and died a JEW.

Some of them insist that Jesus was celibate, and Mary Magdalene was a prostitute, yet what self-respecting Jewish boy would be unmarried at 33 years of age? If he hadn't found a wife, his MOTHER would have found one for him. I say the odds are way better than even that MM was his 'old lady--to use an old school term!

Disclaimer--I am a practitioner of the Church of the Fluffy Pillow, I worship every day in a trancelike state, but especially on Sundays, when there's nothing good on TV in the mornings.

[Humanist_Activist]

15. Even funnier, some of them claim they want to act like Christ...

How many of them tear down their guilded churches, or curse fig trees? Its impossible to take them seriously.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. I consider Christian churches to fit that description perfectly.

They have served as the right arm of the GOP for the past 31 years.

[formercia]

25. Real Assh0les think their Majic Diety is better than any other

and spend their lives making sure everyone knows it.

[EvilAL]

26. Sure, Jesus was,

http://www.godisimaginary.com/i39.htm

[drakonyx]

31. Not a Christian but I used to be one

This is one of the reasons I'm not anymore. I don't see all Christians as assholes, but fundie Christians - to use Sarah Palin's favorite term, you betcha! There are as many different ideas about Christianity as there are interpretations of the Bible and ideas about who Jesus was ... if he was even a historical figure. The problem is not the multitude of interpretations, but the fact that so many of them say, "I'm right! You're wrong!" Whatever happened to respect for people who believe differently?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

32. I often find myself being a total asshole

But then I can't help myself - I'm an atheist.

[cambie]

34. Easy question

"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man."
- T Paine

And the God of the bible was an asshole.

[westerebus]

35. As if it makes a difference?

If you are born with one, the possibility you can act like one has a probability factor of 99%, I don't exclude myself either.

[Critters2]

37. After 25 years in Christian ministry, I can definitively answer "yes!" to this question. nt

[cleanhippie]

38. Of course they can be assholes, its not required.

But it certainly makes it easier.

:evilgrin:

[rexcat]

46. No, just persecuted victims.

[socialshockwave]

49. Of course.

Can Atheists be assholes? Can they believe so much in nothing that YOU ALL MUST BE STUPID FOR BELIEVING IN A GOD?

There's idiots in all religions, and all non religions.

[darkstar3]

50. You must really like straw.

I have yet to see you referred to as stupid simply for believing in a God. And before you start quoting Dawkins and his iconic book, you should know that delusion and stupidity are separate things.

Have you, btw, heard of something called a "persecution complex"? I think you might do well to look it up.

[socialshockwave]

51. I'm sorry if my faith offends you.

And Christians are in many parts of the world, persecuted to this day.

I'm of course sorry that Christians used the word of God to hate and defame others(and still do to this day) but most of us are just good people trying to live a normal life and be as true to the true message of Jesus as we can.

[laconicsax]

52. Like Canada?

You poor thing!

[socialshockwave]

53. /sigh. Must we get into this?

These are places where Christians have been or are currently the victims of human rights violations and/or severe persecution:

1. Mauritania
2. Morocco
3. Libya
4. Algeria
5. Sudan
6. Somalia
7. Nigeria
8. Turkey
9. Syria
10. Iraq
11. Saudi Arabia
12. Cyprus
13. Lebanon
14. Egypt
15. Jordan
16. Yemen
17. Iran
18. Turkmenistan
19. Afghanistan
20. Pakistan
21. Uzbekistan
22. Tajikistan
23. Kazakhstan
24. Kyrgyzstan
25. China
26. North Korea
27. India
28. Nepal
29. Bangladesh
30. Myanmar
31. Vietnam
32. Laos
33. Malaysia
34. Cuba
35. Belarus

[darkstar3]

55. You just listed 35 countries where Christians are persecuted for 2 reasons.

1. They are a tiny minority.
2. They live in a country where the supermajority sees other (or all) religions in general as a threat to their culture. They are not exclusively persecuted because they are Christian, but rather persecuted along with others because they are not Muslim, Hindu, etc.

The fact remains that the vast majority of Christians in this world are not persecuted and live their lives in what most people in those 35 countries (regardless of their majority/minority status) would consider luxurious comfort and freedom.

Additionally, China has an official, state-sanctioned Christian religion. Going against the state, and what it sanctions, is how you get persecuted in China.

[laconicsax]

57. So you're acting persecuted on their behalf?

How very generous of you.

[darkstar3]

54. Your faith doesn't offend me,

your attitude and your ridiculous claims do. There is no reason, save playing the victim, to state so blatantly that atheists call you stupid for believing in God or that your faith automatically offends me.

If you wish to debate religion or theology, take the chip off your shoulder. If you wish to simply complain about the fact that religion is rightfully criticised in debates centered on religion, then remember that "your concern is noted" and try to come up with something original next time.

[Pterodactyl]

56. Christians are human, so yes they can be!

[Taverner]

59. EVERYBODY gets to share in the joy that comes along with being an asshole