Tying test scores to teacher performance will result in grade inflation

[2Design]

Ok the more I see this merit 'crap' for teachers the more I believe it will result in grade inflation
If you are going to measure a teacher on someone's else behavior or ability to learn, that teacher will hand out higher grades to stay employed - people learn to work the system to keep a roof over their head.

Measuring teachers on someone else's behavior is codependency and wrong head

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-education25-2009jul25,0,4550811.story


Obama chides California for not using test scores to evaluate teachers
At stake are billions in federal stimulus funds to be allocated in 'Race to the Top' grants. Schwarzenegger says state law will be amended if necessary to comply.

[BlooInBloo]

1. I wholeheartedly agree that there exist stupid ways to measure teacher performance...

Thankfully, not all of us have education degrees.

[napi21]

3. Since it's the teachers job to teach the kids, how eo you suggest

you rate the teacher's performance?

I hate the way it's done now! I lived in Tx. when Shrub initiated that there, and EVERYBODY complained that all they were doing was teaching to the test! However, I do think there has to be a way to rate their performance.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Teachers for years have walked the line between blue collar and professional mentalities as it

suited them. The time for that is coming to a close.

Professionals are evaluated yearly, preferably with some metrics. There are salary differentials based on performance and skills, not seniority. However teacher contracts are much like auto worker ones. Seniority drives pay and assignments, not skills or performance. The annual evaluation is simply and up or down check with tremendous job protections. Skills and market rate pay are subordinated to the auto worker style contract. Incentives are often precluded. You can not insist on being called and treated as professionals and then demand blue collar contracts.

The NEA etc had the opportunity to get ahead on this and work out something equitable in terms of professional evaluations and merit. Instead they chose to go into denial, fighting a futile rearguard action. They are going to be steamrolled by Obama and his Dept of Education. Its not like we could not see this coming.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. So cops and firefighters have blue collar contracts?

They are public servants and no one ever mentions merit pay for them. Why teachers?

[Smarmie Doofus]

15. How about parental satisfaction?

Combined with other measures. (NOT test scores.)

[LWolf]

20. The funny thing about that

is that, in most cases, some parents will be very happy with a teacher that others complain about. It's unusual to have parents consistently agree about teachers.

In districts and schools that allow parents to choose teachers, some teachers will get more requests than the rest; I was one of those, when I worked in that system. Other teachers would get refusals; "don't put my kid in ____________'s class."

Those choices on the part of parents, though, were based, not on concrete info about teachers, but word of mouth. Not exactly objective.

If there were an objective way to collect feedback from parents I think that would be good information to collect for the purposes of professional growth. I don't think it would be appropriate as part of the evaluation process.

[Smarmie Doofus]

23. I'm talking "as a *component*"; not as a single determiinative index.

For all of the reasons you mention. But I vastly prefer organized parental feedback as an element in teacher eval to the "observations" and impressions ( which are usually what the "observations" are in fact) of a principal or assistant principal.

Unevenness in parental ratings should be mitigated by sheer volume of response. That is... anomalous responses OUGHT to be outweighed by perceptive feedback... assuming everyone ( or at least almost everyone) is sampled.

Parents have an E-NORMOUS stake in the quality of the actual product. ( Unlike the school admins who have none.In my school NONE of the admins live in the district... or in any district remotely LIKE it, much less have kids in the schools.) If a teacher is consistently getting panned by the parents, then teacher's pedagogy might be at fault, or... and this is just as likely... teacher has failed to communicate what he/she is doing and why.

Either way it's useful info.

[LWolf]

24. I agree with that.

As long as there are controls in place to prevent personality conflicts, personal dysfunctions, and political agendas from impacting the process.

Parents' feedback has been very helpful to me over the years. Frankly, I can't do my job well if parents aren't part of the team, and getting their feedback can be a great part of the professional reflection good teachers do.

I was fortunate to have begun my career in a school that actively fostered parent participation in every facet of our school. They were welcome on campus. They not only had a presence on school site councils, they had seats on hiring committees, budget committees, and were welcome at every staff meeting. It was an exception, rather than the rule, to have a classroom on campus that had no parents in it throughout the day.

I am also a parent and a grandparent, so I've operated on both sides of that particular fence.

[LWolf]

21. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8627639

[LWolf]

19. There are many ways to do so.

If you are really interested, take a look at Charlotte Danielson's work.

Of course, her system is focused on improving performance, not "grading."

http://www.danielsongroup.org/index.htm

[mix]

2. The tests are standardized...

...so inflated classroom grades won't matter and will in fact be glaringly obvious.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Since grades do not relate to test scores how would that change things

As far as grade inflation goes, I see a tremendous amount of it already. I had a student tell me he had taken a relevant AP course so my class would be a skate. He withdrew for academic performance reasons. He simply was not prepared for college level work at the 150-200 level in his declared major.

[ejpoeta]

5. maybe that's the point. see, the kids get better grades, so they are doing better

and the system is working. just like kids like my nephews who are failing classes left and right get sent to the next grade regardless of their ability to pass the grade they are in now.

[timeforpeace]

7. Well duh. That's why grades aren't used to determine teacher performance, testing is.

[dsc]

8. No you will get teaching to the test

schools getting people to drop out, and every possible scheme to game the numbers you can think of and in some rare cases you will get out right cheating.

[noamnety]

9. I agree about schools getting kids to drop out

except they do it a little differently because a drop-out will affect their ratings. Instead they try to get kids to transfer to other schools.

[Jeclark]

10. Race to the Top

Any race will have winners and losers. Obama is proud of the fact that he will weed out the losers in his “race to the top” reform. Our education system is no longer child centered we are competitive based with test as the measure of winners and losers. Merit pay and the ability to move to a charter school will do nothing in the long run to level the playing field for low income and minority students. It seems more likely that by using money in this manner, Obama will see dynamic innovative teachers respond by refusing to work in schools that are less likely to allow them access to the merit pay they are more likely to earn in affluent schools. Public school administration will focus more on test scores, quick fixes, and teaching only content that increases test scores. Charter schools will come and go as fast as the current educational fad. I guess I could agree with this mentality if we were to expand it into all areas including banking, healthcare, and the practice of law where success is never a guaranteed outcome. I suggest that Obama needs to spend more time talking with teachers who were not hand picked by their administrator. The grass roots movement that helped get Obama to the White House should be considered in helping change our education system. Unfortunately, this means talking with real teachers who are teaching the children with the greatest needs. These are the very teachers that will not be getting the test scores needed to earn the merit pay Obama is putting forth as way to attract better teachers. These are also the teachers that the administration tends to hide because they are more likely to speak their mind and stray from the administrator’s position. I spent a vast majority of my time working in low-income minority schools and I believe ultimately I am a better and richer teacher because of my experience in the past. Indeed, I believe I have won the race to the top even if my Navajo and Hispanic students did not get the test scores to earn me a bonus.

[Dr. Strange]

12. Grade inflation already occurs.

I can't tell you how many times I've had students in a College-Algebra-level course get Ds and Fs on their homeworks and tests and then come to me flabbergasted because they got As and Bs in their math courses in high school.

:rant: If you got As and Bs in your high school algebra course, then you should know how to add fractions! :rant:

[LWolf]

13. Grades don't rely on test scores.

Using test scores to threaten and punish teachers doesn't improve their teaching, either.

There's a reason that teachers get to be such a public scapegoat. If the corrupt use of student scores to evaluate schools and teachers weren't such a good propaganda tool, politicians might have to do something about the actual sources of poor student performance.

Things like poverty, for example; and the inherent dysfunction of using the factory/business model for educating ALL citizens.

They aren't going to pour the kind of resources into the nation to address poverty, and into the system to move it toward a system that works for all. That would be counter productive for their sponsors and their careers.

[mzteris]

14. so you're saying teachers can't be trusted,

is that it?

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. Actually, some CANNOT.

And since some CANNOT.... should they benefit from the inflated test scores that they will produce?


Should they be rehired/granted tenure/ receive salary bonuses AT THE EXPENSE of those teachers who CAN be trusted?

Really: does any of this make sense at all? Think it through, for god sakes.

[mzteris]

17. Actually I'm against testing as it exists now, you know

and I'm certainly against using "a test" to determine the pay and the fate of anyone.

But I didn't like the tone of the "broad-brush" smear against teachers. It made it sound like they're all untrustworthy!

FWIW - I've always hated cheaters.

[RetAZEd]

18. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can lead a student to knowledge...

But you can't make him think.

I wanted to share an experience with the Algebra professor. My husband taught math remediation classes in rural Arizona with "at risk" kids for a while. Here's a paraphrase of a conversation from his class.

Him: Today we're going to review the multiplication of fractions.
Kid: Mr. ___ We learned that already, Man.
Him: Well ____, come to the board and do this problem then.
Kid: Hey Man,You're the teacher, that's your job.

He just wanted me to add, kids don't always understand the difference between being exposed to a concept and learning it or how to use it.

I once asked a Math teacher from my school district why all students had to take Algebra. He said Math teachers ask that question to the State Board all the time, but aren't able change any minds. Of course, the people who actually work with the kids are the last to be heard.

[Taitertots]

22. We should test, but not base funding or teachers salary on the results

I have yet to find someone who can explain to me how decreasing funding or teacher pay is going to do anything but hurt already failing schools.

This is just a club to beat the poor. They already have lower test scores due to the circumstances outside their control or the teacher's control. This will ONLY make sure the rich continue to have the best teachers while the poor are bemoaned for stuff they have no control over.

[mbperrin]

25. Yes, it is hard to see how taking resources away will make a thing better.

If a carpenter is bending a lot of nails, we don't take his hammer away and then say, "When all your nails are straight, you can have your hammer back," while we buy the guy who's driving straight nails a nail gun, which means he doesn't even need a hammer any more, both based on the "hammer score" standard.

Poverty makes a difference and not a good one, despite all those "rags to riches" fairy tales out there. Mostly, it's just rags to more rags. But making education a contest instead of a project is completely wrong-headed.