I dont think people who are not oppressed understand a very basic thing about us:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

This is the only life we have.

Asking us to wait, hold on, what choice do you have etc is just so demeaning. You know its the only life we have. If we dont get equality now, then when? If we cant expect our politicians to uphold our dignity, why should we keep voting for them?

This is the only life I have and its immoral and cruel to ask me to be happy and content in my second class citizenship.

[Sub Atomic]

1. Dear I'm sorry but I think you didn't get the memo.

We're all supposed to just shut up and go back to the closet and stop making such a fuss over nothing.

It's only 2 minutes for crying out loud. And it's not like anybody's ever going to remember this.



:sarcasm:

[crappyjazz]

2. I'm at a loss for words

Whenever this comes up on DU, I'm usually complete taken aback by the reaction. I should learn by now to expect it I guess.

I take the view that in the end all politicians are the same. Yes, some of them have better ideas and such, and may have more liberal views than others, but in the end, a politician is just that: a politician. They have to pander, they have to weigh every move, and they always have to keep the next election in mind. It's disgusting, but it's politics.

I've come to realize that there will always be discrimination and oppression in this world.

I am Canadian and my partner is American. We wanted to be together and the only way to do that was for her to immigrate here. We have been hoping against hope that one day, America would catch up and allow us to move to America as a married couple, but every year, her parents get older and we are starting to face the fact that we won't be the ones there to help them out, the other kids will have to do it.

It might be a minor thing, but it is another thing we have to contend with that other couples would not. I get that unless someone is in the same situation, they don't really care, but I expected more from this place.

[roguevalley]

9. I would think after the past eight years of fearing to live and breathe

the way we did before bush that some people would have gotten a taste of it but obviously not. I am with the OP.

[QC]

3. Why can't you let go of your pet issues?

Isn't it enough for you to bask in the warm glow of The Anointed One?

[CreekDog]

4. Yup. And people should be able to identify their struggles and pain

With yours.

The key is to get people to recognize their pain as the same kind that you feel and to get them to care.

I've got a friend in church who is pretty conservative on most things. One day we were at the bar and he asked me if i knew that genetically younger siblings were more likely to be gay than older ones. No idea if that's true. He said this to make the point that people are born this way and seemed to get at the unfairness of expecting them to be something (heterosexual) their bodies were not created to be.

If you think that conservative church goer can be convinced to vote in favor of gay rights, well, so do I.

[lightningandsnow]

5. Summed up very well.

I agree. 100%.

[sui generis]

6. Well there is no point in asking sociopaths to emphathize

We just hafta take care of ourselves, same as we ever have.

Open season on sociopaths though. I mean, to their way of thinking, if they can't drive down the road with the top down, and the wind, blowing through their hair, running over helpless little gay boys and girls, what's the point of having a head?

:shrug:

[bluedawg12]

7. They don't seem to equate it with our life at all

judging by the many comments I have read here, on a progressive forum of all places.

They act as if we are "miffed" about not having a big gala wedding party.

People who get this so wrong see it as our fight for incidentals, for "trivia," they perceive this all as being frivolous and portray it that way when they speak of us "whining."

It's as if they have never read a single thread about the gay rights, our struggle nation wide, the pervasive and persistent dehumanizing discrimination, the hateful often ugly and invariably psyche damaging rhetoric, anti-gay violence and murder, institutionalized discrimination by various Churches, by employers including the Federal Gov't viz a viz the military, job discrimination and the denial of equal rights and benefits afforded to married couples on a State and Federal level denied to same sex couples.

[Zenlitened]

8. Fifth rec.

:applause:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. The saddest thing, as a black woman, myself is that I get oppression from ALL sides

so I understand that hatred against gays/lesbians is unacceptable. Sadly, many of my fellow black brothers and sisters don't seem to agree with me. To them, any argument regarding civil rights is automatically assumed to be comparing the plight and struggle of black Americans with that of gays/lesbians. While I submit that there is a difference in the history of oppression, to make that argument presumes that there are no black lesbians/gays or that being lesbian/gay is a mutable characteristic. Many people who oppose civil rights for gays/lesbians must necessarily convince themselves that being gay/lesbian is a choice. If it is a choice, then it is THEIR fault if they are oppressed because they should chose a different "lifestyle." The root of homophobia is justified hatred through an assumption that gays/lesbians make the choice to be gay/lesbian.

[WVRICK13]

11. Oppression is a Weight

that we carry around our necks and on our shoulders every day. When I see bumper stickers like one man and one woman equal marriage I get angry, then I get sad. It makes me afraid at the same time. How must the Jews have felt in Nazi Germany? At first it started very slowly with signs, then laws to make them lesser citizens and escalated to wholesale slaughter. A am afraid we will see the same things happen here. How long before vigilante groups start large scale campaigns against us? They start by organizing protests against us, putting signs in public, passing laws to legally restrict our rights as citizens and then they become more bold. The first actions have already happened and it scares me. It scares me to think I may be in a public place minding my own business and as I proceed to my car I will be shot or stabbed and if I live I may not get the help of a policeman who hates gays and is backed by the law into thinking we are second class citizens and do not deserve protection. Or if they call the ambulance will they delay in responding because I am a second class citizen. These things would be hard to prove and prevent which makes them possible in the minds of people who are told repeatedly that their hatred and fear are justified and supported by society.

The hardest thing is to come to gripes with the fact that our entire country and the precepts it was founded on have been historic shams. "With Liberty and Justice for All," while historically treating blacks and women as not a part of that society promising these rights. If citizenship is considered a membership in an organization, in this case our country, then are all members not accorded the same rights and benefits? Are their varying levels of membership with different rights? I have been a member of such groups where the amount paid to membership determines your rights in the group, i.e., associate member, contributing member, voting member etc. Does this mean we can pay less for our membership in return for less rights? Do we create a separate tax system for gays and heterosexuals or any other group without equal rights? Sounds fair to me.

All I want is to be given the rights the Constitution guarantees, nothing more nothing less. The flip side is to tell the world we are a class based society with different rights for different citizens. Stop the hypocrisy, tell the truth and be what you are.

[Pacifist Patriot]

12. Wow. Do you mind if I use your words in a sermon? Highly profound!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. absolutely. its not like i am doing anythign useful with them

:)

[Pacifist Patriot]

15. I beg to differ. You are too modest.

[laconicsax]

13. If people believe that they have eternal paradise waiting for them after they die,

then how could they possibly understand your point?

Oppressed? No big deal, just adhere to <doctrine> and you'll get infinite reward in the afterlife.

:puke:

[Jamastiene]

16. I wish there was a function where I could just automatically

Recommend your posts here in GLBT Forum. It seems I Recommend most, if not all, of the OPs you start here.

As always, well said. :thumbsup:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. thank love,

[Festivito]

17. I wouldn't ask you to be happy about it, just not to be foolish.

I don't know who asked you to be happy about it, they were wrong.

If you are beset by one of two choices, one that takes your right to marry, and the other that takes your right to marry, work, and be protected from random acts of violence. I would think the choice to be a no-brainer.

Your question seems an ill attempt at making a point.

EDITED TO ADD: Your point is excellent for helping others relate to what you know and understand. Excellent job relating.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. if we dont count that why do you guys so worked up if we say we should sit out an election

if out votes are not important enough to earn, why do you care who we vote for?

[Festivito]

20. I'm saying that you should care for whom you vote.

Our country is attacked, its economic system in a shambles, our military overdrawn, our reputation is mutilated the world over, our retirements are decimated if not worse, and you wonder why I would be upset if you sat out an election that could have stopped this list from occurring? It's okay with you?

I have to get someone to bribe you before you'll help stop these things from happening to both of us? Does that not seem nutty to you?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. so we did help. we voted. obama won. you dont see the betrayal in picking rick warren?

some of us donated. (i did) and some of us volunteered hard for him.

[Festivito]

27. The closest I came to talking of Rick Warren was to say ...

..that someone was wrong to say the OP should be happy about this situation.

I haven't had the time to investigate and verify the things I've heard about Warren's statements. I have seen hyper-inflated rhetoric about him that has not included attempts to understand the other side while clamoring that others should understand their side. I'm not happy about some of the discussions I've seen.

I understand some of the mindset of people who oppose gay marriage. I think there are points to be gained in reaching out to them rather than discarding them. Whether it is enough a Warren invocation, I don't know. I do know that sitting out the election would have been a bad move and suggesting it does not instill confidence in your decision making, at least not to me.

I wish you well.

[Riktor]

29. Sounds a bit like lobbying...

Don't get me wrong. I support gar marriage, I voted against Prop 8, and from what I've read, I think this Warren schmuck should at least be slapped across the face with a 19 lb. lake trout.

However, the goal of an election is to select the most all-round competent candidate, regardless of whether or not said candidate will fulfill all of your hopes and dreams. Saying, "I voted for you, now pay up", is akin to lobbyists using their contributions to bend policy to their will. Not that gay marriage is nefarious, but the principal is essentially the same. The Constitution grants the government "distance" from the electorate to make democracy indirect, to avoid policy passed on the passions of the masses.

You don't have to be happy about the outcome of Prop 8, and you certainly don't have to be happy about Warren's role in the inauguration. However, I would be reticent to say you were "betrayed". The rules of the game stipulate the candidate owes you nothing once he is in office, but you may certainly make it perfectly clear to him/her that you will not support reelection unless some changes are made to better your situation.

Anyway, I think you'll find Obama has a cult of DU-affiliated followers who do not tolerate critical analysis of their new god. If may be easier to dismiss them as bigots, but in reality they're just idiot fanboys looking for a surrogate father-figure.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. you dont understand the difference between a lobbyist and glbt who dont have civil rights?

either you are stupid or willingly dense.

[Riktor]

41. Really?

I don't see what you hope to gain through ad hominems and straw men.

The fact of the matter is that our government is structurally an indirect democracy, and it was designed as such to ensure policy is not dictated by the passions of the general populace. While at this point you may rightfully be upset the president-elect chose to rub shoulders with an enemy of moral progress, it is important to bear in mind that if policy were decided by the whims of the general population, homosexual marriage would most likely be banned outright in a federal amendment. Thus far, every advance we've made in social equality had to be imposed by the executive and the legislature, regardless of the general feeling of their constituents.

So, is it morally acceptable for the president-elect to continue to neglect the state of social inequality between heterosexual couples and homosexual couples? Obviously, the answer is "no". However, just because you voted for a candidate does not mean he or she is in any way obligated to take your personal beliefs into account when forming policy. That is all I am trying to say.

Of course, as long as we're talking "stupid" and "willingly dense", perhaps you missed http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/11/obama-on-mtv-i.html">this, which I would find odd considering it was plastered all over these forums at the time. Perhaps you find it surprising a man who believes marriage is between a man and woman hangs out with another guy who thinks marriage is between a man and woman. I, however, do not.

[Creideiki]

32. Without the LGBT community

would Obama have won Colorado, Virginia, North Carolina, and other relatively close states?

Overwhelmingly, we show up to vote (best percentage among minority groups, historically), and we vote at a historical 70% rate for Democrats. That's usually a 7-10% voting bloc that the Democrats take for granted. I've already written to my house representative (who has a leadership role) that without substantial progress, I will not vote for her in 2010. Nor will I vote for a Senatorial candidate who is not a vocal advocate for treating everyone fairly. And I'm in a state where the Democrats may win by 4%, but not more than that. The Democrats will start losing this state if they cannot treat all Americans fairly.

[yardwork]

23. I donated quite a bit of money to Obama, the most I've ever given to a politician.

I voted for Obama in both the primary and general election in my state, which happened to be a swing-state this year. I know that I personally convinced at least one other person to register and vote for Obama, and I know that they convinced at least one other person to do so.

Now I feel like a chump.

[Festivito]

28. You should not feel bad at all, you should feel like a hero.

If in winning the war, you did not win your most important battle, understand that you are closer to winning it on the next try than you would have been with the other side being in charge.

[Creideiki]

31. Coalitions are built in the primary season

We don't have a parliamentary government where the general election happens and our MPs choose a Prime Minister. We build that coalition before the election.

So if we get told that absolutely nothing important to us will get addressed because, yet again, it's everyone else's turn, and we couldn't possibly multi-task, then why should we vote for people that will promote your agenda?

[MNBrewer]

44. BRIBE????

Getting our equality recognized under the law is a BRIBE????

what incredible BS!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[yowzayowzayowza]

22. I'd suggest reaching out to and not alienating people who ...

want to support you on grounds of civil mutual respect tho their personal fantasy faith life dictates they abhor your lifestyle.

eta: These folks don't cotton to being called bigots much.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. i dont have a lifestyle. i have a life. exactly how am i alienating people?

[eridani]

35. By existing

:sarcasm:

[bluedawg12]

37. Save the new talking points from Rick Warren about "civl discourse"

we don't need to see the spin justifying Warrens invitation regurgitated here.

We didn't elect a President to have "civil discourse" with extremist bigots, we elected one to fight for rights, justice and law.

Warren sees gay civil rights as a moral issue, we see it as a legal issue.

The President elect needs to work on the legal issue, that's his job, we don't need him to be our proxy with evangelicals for outreach, thank you very much.

[yowzayowzayowza]

42. So no negotiations with Iran:

"We didn't elect a President to have "civil discourse" with extremist bigots..."

"...we don't need to see the spin justifying Warrens invitation regurgitated here."

I don't take your position as spin and would appreciate the same respect. I apologize for incursion into your forum. See ya in the main fora.

:hi:

[MNBrewer]

45. Bye. Don't let the door, etc, etc.

[yardwork]

24. I don't understand why DU rules are being ignored over the past couple days.

I've read numerous posts stating that we are only discriminated against because of our perverse sexual habits. Those posts have not been deleted, and the posters are still here.

I've read numerous posts stating that I don't have to be discriminated against, all I have to do is pretend to be straight and everything will be fine, so why am I complaining. Those posts are still here and so are the posters.

I've read numerous posts stating that I'm a bigot for not welcoming Rick Warren just because I disagree with his views. Aren't his views as valid as mine? What's my problem? These posts would be immediately deleted if Rick Warren were a Holocaust denier or a White Supremacist, but because he "only" preaches that gay marriage is the same as incest and pedophilia and he "only" campaigned publicly for Proposition 8 and he "only" thinks that women are inferior to men and he "only" calls for all abortions to be outlawed even in the case of the life of the mother, I'm the bigot for not letting him have an equal place at the Democratic Party's table.

I don't understand this.

[Clintonista2]

26. Take a look at how many of the 'phobes on DU have stars

When in doubt, follow the money. Banning all of them would take the $$$ out of the pocket. It's why I stopped sending my money to DU a long time ago.

[Marrah_G]

40. I am also very saddened by this

People are openly displaying their bigotry without fear of consequences.

[Creideiki]

33. I disagree only in that there are many people in the majority who have developed empathy

It's the developed sense of empathy that allows people to understand that you don't need to be in the minority to fight for its rights. Otherwise, I wouldn't have voted for union, women's reproductive, and minority rights in the last election cycle.

[TechBear_Seattle]

34. Thank you, Lioness. Very well stated. n/t

[PeaceNikki]

36. Some of us do, pri.

And some of us stand in solidarity with you. While I cannot say that I feel every emotion that you feel and understand exactly how it affects your daily life, I would never ask you to wait, dismiss your hurt and anger, or stop fighting for equality. Your civil rights are my civil rights.

I'm sorry that not everyone feels that way and I am disgusted at how dismissive some are.

:hug:

[Deep13]

38. You hit the nail on the head.

Time is not our friend.

:pals:

[MuseRider]

39. You could not have said this better.

As a woman I have known oppression but nothing at all equaling what you are experiencing on a daily basis.

It is funny. I never liked Obama. Did not/ do not trust him. Everything I thought would happen is happening. I have not been silent on what I have thought about him but the GLBT organization that I am active in fought with me all the way to support him because he "promised" to be an advocate. My objections to the fact that his promises went no further than words were unheard. Now this. This proves the point that many many GLBT citizens worked hard, very hard, to get him elected and this is the reward they are seeing. Sadly I see that you will not experience much advance if any in the administration. Still, I hold to my words that I will be thrilled and apologize if he does the right thing. I am not too terribly worried that I will have to eat my words.

Pressure and yell and make all the noise you can. I guess we are all going to have to shame this country into recognizing it's bigotry. How that bigotry is not understood does not give me too much hope for this country. How is it so easy to delude oneself? What a fucked up mess.

[Irishonly]

43. You are right

The passage of 8 and Warren giving the invocation literally breaks my heart. I am a straight woman and I know I really have a clue as to how you are feeling. I read your words and I feel your pain but I do not have to live it day in and day out. I hate bigotry and injustice. It seems to me there are some democrats that have take a page from the religious right with their get over it and it's not a big deal. It is a big deal. A state constitution was changed from giving right to taking away rights from a minority Now a big proponent of the discrimination policies is given the right to give an invocation. Healing, smealing. No pro life democrat will ever win evangelical voters. All they see is pro choice and pro marriage. They wear blinders to everything else.

[David Zephyr]

46. They don't understand and are comfortable with their secret bigotry.

Who'd have ever thought we'd be run over so early on.