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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:17 PM
Original message
My 14 year old neice (nephew now) annouced she is now a he
and we have been waiting for this for YEARS. At age 4, he announced he wanted nothing more than to have a penis.

Any links, especially school links, he'll be attending HS in Portland OR, would be appreciated.

So proud of my nephew!!!!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. wow, this was unrec'd? why?
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Apparently somebody's not comfortable with HS transgenders...
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I'd unrec your response:
Edited on Sat Jul-18-09 11:27 PM by Deja Q
You're making an assumption with absolutely zero evidence to back up your claim.

There's more, as I adumbrated a moment ago, to suggest other possibilities. Which are more likely to the truth, if the law of probability remains constant. Doesn't mean I'm right or that you're wrong, it's possible those who unrec'ed have a personal problem -- as most say about unrec in general, that's their problem and nobody should take the stupid feature to heart.

And, I can think of many GLBT issues more deserving to be on the front page. There, I said it. People are going to be damned either way with this lame-butt JOKE of a feature, but I'm getting my current mindset down here and now to reduce chances of "misconstrued notions" down the road. Its purpose is solely for the front page. If others abuse it, or use it for the mindset they think it should be about (e.g. popularity contest, hidden dig at a OP, personal bias, you name it) that's their fuckin' problem -- it's immaterial to what it's supposed to be about, which is something nobody's really going to consider because of (popularity contest, hidden digs, personal bias, you name it).


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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
90. I'll Give You a Dollar If You Go Away.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #90
97. LOL. i'll give him 5
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
91. w
ow
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
96. you do realize that you make about as much sense as sarah palin?
i read all of what you said and understood nothing.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Don't ask.
I'm happy for your nephew. :hi:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I literally could not be more proud. So brave so young! You go... BOY! :D
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Someone probably pre-empted anyone who would have rec'ed it.
(note, I hadn't voted - I use rec/unrec only as deemed necessary and for issues of sufficient, Earth-shattering content I believe should be on front page. Maybe the one(s) who unrec'ed it felt they should get ahead of those who would blindly ramp up the recs. It's been happening to most people, for most issues. Please don't take the unrec issue too seriously...)

It's the thing people on GD have been mewling about - or one of many reasons why the unrec idea was just dumb from the beginning.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
38. Agree . . . plus the size of the website makes 24 hours to rec really unrealistic!!
I've come across threads after two days I hadn't seen before --

and wanted to recommend --

and sometimes longer.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Corrected that problem
and some folks round these parts do get the ickies when it comes to the GAY.

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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
54. Oops...
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 05:05 PM by polmaven
self delete...misunderstood the question 'cause I'm not completely used to the unrec feature yet...That's what happens when ya start getting old.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. You're wonderful,
and, clearly, his family made him comfortable enough so that he could be who he really is.

That's about as wonderful as anything I've heard in quite a while.

Mazeltov. A blessing on all of you..................

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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. wishing him all the best!
I cannot begin to imagine how difficult such a decision is, but I am hoping the rest of this young mans family, friends and peers are as understanding and accepting as you.
:hug:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. He's lucky and brn into a family of liberals who understand we're wired how we're wired. He's also
a talented musician who may be able to draw attention to this issue.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. born even
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
81. Apparently 'better than even'.
;)

'Well-and-goodly-adjusted' would suit.

He's very lucky, and you're all quite blessed.

Know that you and yours are the vanguards of humanity's inexorable emergence into adulthood.

Thank you.
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DKRC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. Congratulations to your nephew!
:hug:
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'd send him to my friend Bonnie Tinker,
who founded Love Makes a Family in Portland - but she was killed in a bicycle accident earlier this month (http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=10642118&nav=menu368_2 ). Check out the next to last paragraph - and remember this is a Virginia news station (one of the states that is most conservative in this arena).

It isn't clear what will happen to Bonnie's organization - she was its heart and soul - but their website has links for the Portland area. Here's a link to their link page: http://www.lmfamily.org/index.php?n=Main.Links
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good for him - and best of luck in his transition.
Here is one page with some links that may help.
http://www.genderadvocates.org/Tyra/TYRALinks.html

My son is considerably older now, but if you think it would help I can ask him (he transitioned in Portland) for any resources he knows about. I do recall he told me that Portland is a great place for young trans people - but he was 18 when he moved there, so a little different for him and he's almost 30 now, so it's been a while!

Let me know; I'll be happy to check with him.
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Sultana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. Mashallah; Wonderful!
I wish you nephew and long and fruitful life :)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. I can't imagine how difficult it must be
To be trapped in a body of the wrong gender.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Nor can I. Thank goodness we all knew and accepted long ago. His journey will hopefully be less
painfull
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
19. Best wishes and best of luck to your nephew.
What a courageous thing to have figured out and do, best wishes to him
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
20. Please forgive my bluntness
but will changes to this individuals genitalia be performed before they are of age?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. we don't know yet
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 12:21 AM by helderheid
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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. growing
I'm guessing not. If your body is still growing, making adjustments is difficult compared to when it's stabilized.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. Genital surgery may not happen at all. Genitalia is not sex.
Many full-grown adult transmen don't choose to have genital surgery because it is expensive and still not very advanced. He will be given testosterone, look like a boy within a few months to a year, and continue on to manhood as any other teenage boy would. He will probably have chest reconstruction at some point to give the appearance of a more masculine chest so that he can swim and take off his shirt.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. I'm glad to hear he's in Portland.
Folks are quite open-minded in that particular city. And it's nice to hear of someone who is not afraid to be who they are, especially at such a young age. It sounds like he has a loving, supporting family, which certainly helps.
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XOEnterprises Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
23. Congrats to your nephew!
My boyfriend just had his chest surgery this week, and he couldn't be happier right now. He's just flying.

If he needs anyone to talk to, drop me a message, I'm sure my guy wouldn't mind helping him out. Links with information are nice, but sometimes it really helps to have another trans guy to talk/vent to.

And thank you so much for supporting him. It means so much for a trans person to have a solid base of support, especially starting out.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
24. My cousin (by marriage, not blood) just made the same announcement a few months ago.
Although I can't remember how old he is exactly. :P I only met him (although at the time her) a few years ago. My uncle got remarried a few years back and I got two new cousins. At the time both girls, but now one girl one guy.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
25. A penis is a terrible thing to have. Take it from an owner.
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 09:36 AM by tomreedtoon
It controls your life. Robin Williams once called it "a creature with no memory and no conscience." It also makes you subject to the commands and whims of women, when it's not driving you to doing self-destructive acts like watching football, drinking beer, driving pickup trucks and beating up gays.

Maybe this person thinks that changing gender will make everything milk and honey. I doubt that it will. We are all human, we are all failures.

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
59. it's more than having a penis but being comfortable in the skin that you have
clearly this child is more comfortable as a boy and I wish him all the best!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Thank you!!!
But it needs more cowbell. ;P
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. Grass is always greener over the septic tank.
So when you look for greener pastures, you'll always find out your choice comes with an ugly smell.

Sorry, but I don't believe in magic cures for anything, and whenever you try to avoid emotional pain instead of just suffering with it like the rest of humanity, something bad always happens.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. But the thing is, it's something that doesn't make sense to us
I mean you and I are probably very comfortable with who we are and I'll admit to this day it seems strange that someone would want to identify themselves with the opposite sex that they are born. But I've never been in that position where I felt like I'm just not meant to be a girl so who am I to judge. But for the world of a transgender, there is usually years of unhappiness being forced to live in a body that doesn't seem 'right' to them.

This isn't a 'magic cure'. This child isn't looking for liposuction, or a facelift or some other cosmetic upgrade. He just feels that he is not a girl and is correcting it. And not all transgenders get the surgery although that usually is the final step with the transaction from girl to boy.

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Thanks so much. The lack of empathy for a situation we've not experienced astounds me.
It sounds like the same argument of "choosing" whom you're attracted to.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. I'm not comfortable with myself at all. But...
...I know there is not a damn thing in this world or beyond that which can change that. I've seen people go for drugs, sexual experimentation, psychiatry, plastic surgery, yoga and other crap. Ultimately, it's all a failure.

We are all in our own Hell, and their ain't no escape, or a smiling happy God to get you out of it. Just accept your lot, whether you like it or not.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #85
93. Just never met anyone who was so not understanding
Every person is different in this world. For some people, the things you mentioned have no effect on who they are but for others it can make a world of difference. When I was going thru some of the worst depression you could imagine, to the point that I could barely function each day, a simple single daily dose of Prozac for about 11 months helped me get out of that funk and with the help of a psychologist I was able to work thru my issues. I knew I didn't want to be on Prozac for a lifetime, hell 9/11 happened during that timefame and I didn't shed a tear (and btw, I am normally a bigtime crier but I did sense being upset about all of it). Today, I take nothing more than a few OTC suppliments and can't imagine ever being on Prozac again, but I'm glad I used it when I really needed it.

The thing is this - it's now how you feel about this situation and how you would handle it. It's how this young man is dealing with the issue.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
76. What do you think this is a cure for? He is who he is.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. It's a cure for unhappiness. And there is none.
We were meant to be unhappy. Do you think plastic surgery made Michael Jackson a better, happier person? Do you think drugs made John Belushi more satisfied? Or rock music or love made Kurt Kobain more satisfied? This is in the same class.

Nothing helps. Deal with it.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. WOW
best wishes to you and goodbye.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #86
94. This isn't about happiness or unhappiness
Edited on Mon Jul-20-09 09:15 AM by LynneSin
What don't you get about that.

This is about someone who was born a girl but indentified as a boy all of his life. This is an actual defined condition, not just some whim of the moment. Transgender is real and the solution for those who are transgender is ultimately switching to the sex that they feel they should be.

This is no different than homosexuality. No one decides they want to be gay or straight - they just are gay or they are straight. Well for some people they are born of the wrong sex. If someone is gay they form relationships with someone of their own sex. If someone is straight they form relationships with someone of the opposite sex. This boy feels that he should have been born a man and therefore will make the changes needed to be a man.
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Moonwalk Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
77. If you think a person "decides" to change gender because they imagine everything will be--
milk and honey, then you have no understanding at all--AT ALL--of why people transgender. This isn't a decision. It's not a matter of saying, "Hm, do I paint my walls green or blue? I like them both." I don't mean to come down on you, but in the end, this isn't a decision at all. Love that penis or not, I'm sure you know you're a guy and a guy is all you are and all you'll ever be.

Yet what if everyone insisted you were a girl? You look in the mirror and see a man. You don't feel like a girl. You know for a fact you're not a girl. But everyone says you are. Would you then say that you'd "Decided" to be a guy? I don't think so. You are what you are. The only decision that being made here by this young person is that he's going to say it out loud and not pretend any longer. That's it. And given the news about horrific hate crimes against transgendered folk, beatings, killings, hazings, the surgeries needed, the lifetime of hormone treatments--why would you or anyone else imagine that they've deluded themselves into thinking this is going to make their lives easier? He's not saying "Men have it better, so I want to be a man." He's saying, "I am a man. And there's no way I can lie about it any longer."

Yes?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. I love you.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
99. Well, that's a convenient set of excuses (nm)
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
26. Good For Your Nephew and His Supportive Family
I don't have any links. What a great post to read in the morning. I am so proud of all of you, your nephew for having the wisdom and courage to make his decision and the family for loving, supporting and giving him the security to be able to make his decision.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. Good for him, and good for you!
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
28. Congratulations!!! And PROPS to a brave kid!
That takes nerves of steel to go through surgery! And a dedication to knowing who you are--

May he accomplish many more victories in his life and have lots of happiness!!!

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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
29. Best wishes to your nephew!
:hug:
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muryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
30. Best wishes
A four year old said she wanted a penis?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. I know! My first thought was she was being abused but as the years went on...
it was obvious he was born into a female body.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. Good for him! It takes a lot of self-knowledge to transition.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
33. Best wishes on what is a very difficult journey
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
34. Congrats!
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
36. His life will be a lot easier with a supportive family
You are the best.
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
37. Congrats and good luck!
I sincerely hope he will be successful and happy in all his endeavors.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
39. Every couple has a 30% change of having a homosexual child . . .but ...
I think we're really lacking on info on how often this occurs.

I once had a figure of 14% of births being "non-traditional" but it's only from
memory on something I read and I can't support it.

Obviously, this is nothing new but they have certainly not educated the public sufficiently.


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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. Just some info: being transsexual is different than being gay.
Some transsexuals are gay--meaning that someone who is FTM will date only males (gay male) or MTF and date only females (lesbian.) Others are straight. Others are pansexual. Some transmen may embrace their "feminine side" (as many cisgendered straight men put it) but still be straight.

A homosexual is a cisgendered person who desires cisgendered people of the same sex.
A heterosexual is a cisgendered person who desires cisgendered people of the (so-called) "opposite sex".
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Thank you. He appears to be a straight male born in a female body.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I hope you'll all still be there for him if he turns out to be gay!
And if he is gay, y'all sound like the kind of people who will find a way to love him anyway ;)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Are you kidding? OF COURSE we'd love and accept him! Nothing wrong with who you love.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Hee Hee
Yeah, I was kidding! Parents who accept their children when they come out as gay don't always accept them when they turn around them and say...actually... I'm not really gay so much as I'm trans and I'm going to start that transition. But I can't imagine trans-accepting parents who aren't okay with their gay kid. (Although, hey, weirder things have happened :))
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Figured. ;P
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #47
87. Of course . . . didn't mean to suggest otherwise . . .
I was talking about "non-traditional" births --
differences in genitalia -- differences in self-sexual-identify such as this thread deals with .

Again -- I don't know what the statistics are on this --

However, many "straight" couples don't realize that they have a 30% chance of having a
homosexual child.

Much of this information is kept from the public.

OTOH, I'm not clear if you are using "pan gendered" as bisexual or unisex . . . or if
there is some other definiton YOU intend which I am missing?


:)
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cindyperry Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
40. Well it seems a bit early but if he is sure
then good for him and god speed.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. We've know for about 10 years.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
42. Kudos to your family for being so accomodating
I can't imagine how much trauma might have been inflicted on him if he'd been raised by the "moral values" type parents. He's a good looking boy BTW.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
44. I have a 15 year old nephew of whom I'm equally proud.
At Christmas, (the only time of the year the WHOLE family is together), he decided to come out. He basically prepared a speech and stood and read it for around a half an hour, answering questions throughout. The nice part was that he was so surprised by the reaction - he was surrounded by love and support, and not one negative comment. I guess he was expecting something different. His father (my brother) jokingly harasses my gay brother relentlessly, so even we weren't sure what to expect from him - it was such a nice surprise to see the way he handled it. He's really just a joker most of the time, and he totally supported his son.

We all did, really - he was so surprised by the love and support, and I was as proud of my family as I was of my nephew. What he did really took courage, especially when we found out he was expecting a negative reaction. His parents have since had his boyfriend, who he met online somehow, and was sure he was "in love" with, come to their home for a week - he lives in a different state, so obviously there are two sets of supportive parents. It was really just a beautiful thing to see and be part of.

I really wish things had been like that 30 or so years ago - my own brother hid his homosexuality until he was in his 30's, and had moved to another state. While he now lives happily and openly gay, he went through hell in his younger years. I'm so grateful my nephew won't have to do that, and is, in fact, supported not only by his family, but by his many, many friends. Times are surely changing.

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. My partner just started T this week. Bless you and the family for being so supportive.
Your support and love will change his life. Countless FTMs of all ages turn to drug abuse and suicide after rejection from their families. This is great news. :hi:
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. Question - when speaking of the transgendered - what and where is the "Self"?
If (he or she) can be born in the wrong (female or male) body, where or what is the correctly gendered self? Is it a psychological entity? A physical self, separate from the physical body? Are we discussing the soul? Where does this self exist? Is it merely a case of disparate self-image?

How can it be determined that the body is wrong for the self-identification, unless the self were separate from the body? Are Buddhists and Hindus correct when they claim that we are not our bodies? If you can accurately state that the body and the self are of opposite gender, how do you make the determination that it is the body that needs to be adapted to the "self" and not the opposite?

Has this been discussed or studied, to anyone's knowledge?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I cannot answer you with anything other than my own experience with him.
He always identified as a boy. Always. Wouldn't wear female clothing - insisted on shopping in the boys section. Wore shorts and a shirt to swim in rather than a girl's swimsuit. She was simply always a he, despite the gender of his body. As I said, we've been waiting for him to make this announcement for years.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Basically, you do what isn't socially violent and listen to the individual.
It has been suggested that transpersons have a physical map in their neurological system that doesn't match their bodies. How do you know that the body needs to be adapted to the "self" and not the other way around? Easy: a transperson lives in a world where they are relentlessly told that their sense of self has to be adapted to not only their bodies, but other people's demands on their bodies. Obviously, anyone who seeks surgery and hormone therapy is someone who cannot bear to live in a world where their body doesn't match their proprioception. Those people are a high risk for suicide and self-destruction and they deserve to be able to live happily because the medical know-how has been available since the discovery of hormones in the 1950s.
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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. many
I read something years ago, most of the details of which have faded away, but there are apparently many physical aspects of gender determination. Someone can look one gender but have a more fundamental biology (I'd like to say DNA, but I'm not sure that's it) that's predominately the other gender, etc. So there may not be a "correctly gendered self" for anyone. Maybe we are all a mix.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Welcome to DU, kitkat
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #62
80. So, in a sense, binary gender is an illusion
And the concept of being transgendered an extension of that illusion.
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Unca Jim Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
53. It's great...
that he knows so early and can transition before high school! It's tougher for people later in life.

As a friend of several transgendered people, I know that reassignment surgery has come a long way for MtFs, but FtMs have a tougher road. As someone said earlier genitals are not gender, but hopefully in the near future he'll have better options so that he can get his final transitioning over before before college. One of my friends was happy with very minimal surgery (metoidioplasty) to get the clitoris out from under the hood and away from the body, but others I know aren't satisfied until everything female is out of them.

If this was my nephew, I'd begin saving for whatever surgery he wants and discussing it with him. There are lots of resources online and many good plastic surgeons who specialize in helping, but they aren't cheap.

Anyway, good luck!
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
56. and I'm proud of you. eom
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nolabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
58. Intro him to the work of Kate Bornstein
She's a m/f transgendered woman who has written for and lectured specifically to teens, many of whom have been suicidal because of their situation. Sounds like your nephew is in a far better place than that, but having had an e-mail exchange with her some years back I found her to be a terrific person with a great deal of compassion and a wealth of information. Tell your nephew congratulations from me.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Thank you SO much! I will do some googling. My dear nephew is so fortunate to have
supportive parents, uncles and aunts, and grandparents. Still, it won't be easy or cheap - but the support, thank goodness, is there!
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
65. I can't understand this.
I can understand being predominately or exclusively attracted to members of your own gender, even if I myself am not. But I can't understand what it is like knowing, at age four, that your body isn't yours in a way that goes beyond, "I wish I didn't have these stupid freckles".

I accept that it is so, but I still don't understand it, thus I am glad as a parent that it's an issue I've never had to face, because the surgery required would give me a great deal of concern.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. What if you woke up tomorrow as the other gender?
Wouldn't you feel out of place in the wrong body? Wouldn't you even have felt out of place if you woke up as the other gender when you were four?
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. But (s)he didn't.
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 06:50 PM by lumberjack_jeff
Being male is not something the boy in question had any experience with. It's like knowing that I'm meant to be telekinetic or have four legs.

I would definitely feel out of place if I woke up in "the wrong body" because I had some experience being in the "right" one. :shrug:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. I don't think that's as important as you do.
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 07:05 PM by Occam Bandage
You wouldn't feel wrong because there didn't happen to be the right bits of flesh where you remembered them; a sudden change in gender would be a major change in a way that (say) gaining 100 lbs overnight would not be, despite the latter having a greater overall affect on your body shape and composition. You could get used to being fat all of a sudden, maybe even within a few weeks. Do you think you could get used to--and comfortable--being the other gender once you re-learned where all the important bits were?

I don't feel like I'm a male because I happen to have more penis experience than vagina experience; I feel like I'm a male because my brain has a male self-identity hardwired into it. To be sure, I believe many things are to a great extent learned at an early age, proprioception among them. However, I don't believe (and observational evidence backs this up) that gender identity is learned. Gender identity is encoded from birth and not learned, much like sexual attraction; people certainly don't need to be taught that they ought be aroused by one gender and not the other. If we accept that gender identity is encoded from birth, then there isn't really much difference between you waking up with the wrong body tomorrow and this boy waking up with the wrong body every day of his life.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #72
84. That makes some sense.
Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I can't yet say that I "get it" intuitively, but I now have a somewhat better understanding. I appreciate the perspective.

That said, I find it hard to reconcile;
Paradigm A) men and women are equally able to succeed in whatever environment they choose. Girls gossip and play with dolls and boys compete and play with trucks because we're socially conditioned that way, and that conditioning influences us into adulthood.
Paradigm B) It is possible for a four-year old to have an innate sense that they have the wrong plumbing. "I'm a girl, this junk doesn't belong here".

Certainly, no one conditioned that child to think they were born in the wrong body. So there must be something fundamentally male or female about us (besides the plumbing) from birth. If we accept that, then it's hard to argue that those fundamental brain differences might yield advantages or disadvantages in various situations, simply because the fundamental differences can't be trained away.

... or is it just a matter of socializing girls to understand how to work wrenches and boys to better communicate?
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Moonwalk Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #69
95. Instead of imagining that you woke up in the wrong body, imagine the following--
You wake up and you look in the mirror and you are who you are, the gender that you are. But everyone keeps telling you that you're not that gender. They keep saying you're the opposite gender. You know you're not, but they keep telling you to wear other clothes, go into the other restroom, etc. Everyone who approaches or talks to you acts like you are that opposite gender.

But you look in the mirror, and you see what you see. You see yourself. What you are. You don't have a choice of seeing yourself as they see you. Or feeling like you are other than the way you are. You only have a choice to go along with what they're telling you, or not.

How would you feel? And what would you do?
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. I don't think surgery will be involved for awhile. In some cases it's not needed at all.
The first and largest medical intervention for transmales is hormones. Genital reconstruction surgery is not that common yet. Top surgery is common but isn't a terribly big deal and isn't always necessary in undeveloped individuals. Females get breast enhancement surgery all the time.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Point taken, thanks. n/t
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
66. Good for him, and I'm glad his family is supportive. I'm also glad this is early enough
that hormonal therapy will be able to ensure biological development in line with his true gender.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
71. I've sent you a PM about an acquaintance of mine who specializes
in counseling transgendered people.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Thank you, Lydia!
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
79. Oh my, I could barf at a few of the replies in this thread...
As for your nephew, I'm glad that he has supportive family. Many positive vibes being sent to him and those of you who support him. :hug:
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
82. I feel exhilarated knowing that this has happened. When I was growing up in the fifties and
sixties this would have probably been a very traumatic event for some, if not all, of the particpants.

It is so gratifying and reassuring to know that this young man doesn't have to fear who he is.

Thank you for posting this, helderheid.

Recommend highly.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
83. I deeply admire anyone
that has the courage to be true to who they are and face the world as the person they know themselves to be.

Big giant hugs to your nephew :thumbsup:
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
89. Big step. I wish him good luck!
I am sure he has a great family, one that will give him all the support he will need. :toast:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
92. That's great helderheid.
Your family is wonderful. All best wishes to your nephew. :)
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
98. I'm so glad this is working out for your nephew and your family.
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Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
100. Congratulations to him!
A good supportive family is invaluable.
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