DNC 2009 Survey: Do GLBT's even *exist*?

[Smarmie Doofus]

Did anyone else get this? We're supposed to rank "14 national issues in order of priority".

No, nothing frivolous among the 14... 'cept "Improving Education" ( frivolous 'cause President Transformational is truly President Oblivious on this matter; his little charges safely tucked in posh DC private schools; just as they were safely tucked in posh Chi private schools. I don't want anyone that clueless about public schools "improving" anything about them.)

But no mention of *equality*. As in... for "you know whom". Not by that name nor by any synonym or euphemism. By comparison, there is "Improving Race Relations" ( a laudable goal, to be sure, noteworthy on this list only in the light of absence of GLBT and related issues.)

Hmmm.

Anyway , I added my own text in the margin: "Equal rights for GLBT citizens" , drew a line to the left and inscribed the numeral "1" on the line. ( A snippy "thanks for including us"-type remark appended. Not like me, but I was truly annoyed.)

Ironic... if only 'cause I normally would have scored GLBT issues as three or four on the list.

Anyone else get this thing? How will you handle it?

Is what I did so "wroooooonnnnggg?"

[bluestateguy]

1. I guess you missed the signing of the Matthew Sheppard bill last week

because I didn't hear a thank you.

And invoking the president's daughters to make a cheap political point is beneath contempt.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. 1. My post is about a survey that the DNC sent out. Not about...

... the Mathew Shepard bill.

2. A. Re. "Invoking the presidents' daughters": There is no better way... that I know of anyway... to dramatize the president's lack of understanding of public ed. issues than to point out that he is at an experiential disadvantage. The fact that his inexperience is volitional is also something that we should consider when we consider his proposed solutions to perceived public ed problems.

B. If you had to rely on an urban public school system to educate your kids I doubt that you'd regard the point as "cheap" or "political".

[Toasterlad]

8. We're Supposed To Be Grateful That We've Finally Been Included In Existing Hate Crimes Protection?

If the company you worked for owed you a pay raise that everyone else already got decades ago, kept putting it off and putting it off and putting it off, feeding you bullshit reasons for the delay and insulted and demeaned you as "whining" whenever you demanded what was due, and finally gave a small portion of it to you, and waited for you to say "Thank you", what would you say?

If you had an ounce of self-respect, I'll tell you what you WOULDN'T say. You WOULDN'T say "thank you."

I do not owe this administration a thank you. They owe me an apology, and the rest of my rights.

[queerart]

21. After This Post.......

Without a doubt........


I'm fucking in Love......


Lordy.... I wished I could think as clearly as you wrote......


Talk about slicing up the issue on a plate for the average Joe to understand.....


Anyone who says they don't comprehend the nuances of this issue after reading your post is a fucking liar.....

[Toasterlad]

41. Thanks!

:toast:

[unhappycamper30]

43. Very well stated Toasterlad - Thank you.

[susanr516]

45. +1000

:thumbsup:

[keepCAblue]

11. Yeah, you ungrateful gays and lesbos. Be glad you got CRUMBS

...now shut up and go sit back down in the back of the freedom bus! :sarcasm:

[imdjh]

12. Why x 2 ?

Why should we thank anyone for the Matthew Sheppard bill?

Why is it beneath contempt for someone who objects to education policy to point out that the President's children attend private school? IS it beneath contempt for someone demanding Single Payer to point out that the President's family has government health insurance?

[Politicub]

15. Gay liberation doesn't end with the Matthew Sheppard bill

But I applaud the president for signing it and making it a law.

I am weary of my life being a political football, with marriage votes in Maine, Washington and Michigan. It's akin to being a catnip mouse batted around by a cat.

When will our civil rights be something that is off limits to curtail? For example, Prop 8 should have never been placed on the Calif. ballot as a matter of civility.

So, I agree with the OP. Gay rights should have been one of the priorities from which to choose. Or do you honestly think that full GBLT equality ends with a hate crimes bill?

[Jamastiene]

19. So, we should send a hearty "thank you" to the people who were born privileged with rights

that we just now got? That is an entitled, elitist, aristocratic, crock of shit attitude you have there. Should we bow down and kiss your feet too while we are at it? :thumbsdown:

[jonnyblitz]

20. I had to keep deleting my response to that (((asshole))).

it would have been deleted for me anyway. :o

[Athelwulf]

44. What a callous, condescending, and arrogant post.

You remind me of a scene from Family Guy (and you'll have to forgive me for referring to pop culture to make an analogy). Stewie and Brian are traveling across the US to get Stewie's toy Rupert. They visit some historic Civil War battlefield (I think it was the Civil War). Stewie waxes patriotic about how it was so great that we fought for black people's freedom. Then they come across a black guy, and Stewie says to him, in a stuck-up, haughty tone, "You're welcome!"

How do you think that black guy must have felt being guilt-tripped into thanking a white person for his ancestors' liberation, knowing that they were dehumanized and exploited for hundreds of years previous to their long-overdue liberation? (Not to mention the appalling fact that blacks weren't truly treated as equals for several decades afterwards!)

Maybe now you understand how you sound when you say, "I didn't hear a thank you."

Finally, you think education is a "cheap" and "political" issue? Really? Do you even value education? And you think it's "beneath contempt" to point out that the president has a conflict of interest when it comes to a major issue? Really? Is it any less so when the issue is the appallingly wide gap between the rich and poor, and a Republican is criticized for owning a yacht? Or when the issue is health care reform, and a Republican (or a Blue Dog) is criticized for having taken a shitload of money from the health insurance industry? Is this exact form of criticism somehow off limits, even "beneath contempt," when laid against our current president?

[Zenlitened]

2. It's been that way for years, sadly.

And is one of the reasons I do not donate to DNC, but to specific candidates instead.

I think writing-in commentary on the "survey" is just fine. The "survey" is a gimmick. anyway. It's meant to make the recipient feel empowered somehow, helping to steer the direction of the party, blah blah blah... and thus a bit more willing to enclose a check when sending it back.

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. No ... I get that part of it, I really do.

>>>The "survey" is a gimmick. anyway. It's meant to make the recipient feel empowered somehow, helping to steer the direction of the party, blah blah blah... and thus a bit more willing to enclose a check when sending it back.>>>

It also panders; but.... hey .... what am I: chopped liverwurst?

I wannna be pandered to also.

Inequality in pandering is what its mostly about.

[imdjh]

13. I've been replying to all correspondence from the White House with:

Single Payer, gays in the military, equal rights for gay people- then we'll talk.

Alternatively, tell them to kiss my ass and stop writing to me until they pass Single Payer.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. DNC Chairman Tim Kaine is a homophobic bigot of the first

order. He opposes not just equality, but any form of civil unions, any form. He's not a good man. He's hyper religious and yet speaks with a forked tongue of a politician, a poison mix.

[QC]

6. Who appointed Kaine, anyway? n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

7. The President of the United States of Humana

of course.

[struggle4progress]

14. DNC chair is elected by chairs and vice-chairs of the state parties

[dsc]

22. that is beyond disingenuous

The President gets to pick the party chair. yes, he or she is ratified by state chairs and vice chairs but they pick whomever the President says to pick.

[struggle4progress]

24. The DNC chair is chosen "at a meeting of the Democratic National Committee held after the succeeding

presidential election and prior to March 1 next" (Charter, art 5 Sec 1)

Following a Presidential election, a new administration has several thousand political appointments to make, with tens of thousands of applicants; after the Inauguration, the new administration has heavy Executive responsibilities. A sane President-elect or newly inaugurated President will not waste his time trying to lean on several hundred party activists, trying to tell them how to vote: they broadly represent politically astute party activists who were responsible for the outcome of the Presidential election, and they can usually play political hardball fairly well; they will have their own preferences and loyalties, and nothing would be gained by insulting most of the people vying for the chairmanship (or their various supporters) by heavy-handedly insisting they should support someone chosen at the very top

[dsc]

26. nice link No wait you don't have a link

The fact is every single solitary President, of either party, has picked his party Chairman. It is nothing short of absurd to argue otherwise. He wanted Kaine and he got him. Frankly I think Dean should have been begged to stay on instead of given the bums rush he was given. If Kaine were as biggoted against any ethnic or religious minority as he is against gays he wouldn't be the chair of this party.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Smarmie Doofus]

28. You are correct.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/obama-formally.html

Obama Formally Announces Tim Kaine As DNC Chairman
January 08, 2009 5:48 PM

PrintRSSE-mailShare this blog entry with friends
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ABC News' David Chalian and Sunlen Miller report:

President-elect Barack Obama made a quick appearance at the Democratic National Committee headquarters in Washington, D.C., this afternoon to announce Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine as the next chairman of the DNC.

At Obama's first partisan political event since his election, neither he nor Kaine tossed out partisan red meat or offered many words to warm the hearts of the Democratic faithful. In fact, Democratic party interest groups -- including labor, pro-choice advocates, gay rights advocates, and all the various constituencies inside the DNC -- may have heard a warning sign that a President Obama may not be eager to lead the charge on the ideological battles that lay ahead.

There was no mention of Obama's 13 million strong email list or how a grassroots movement built around candidate Obama can be transferred to a Democratic Party movement without tarnishing the image of the post-partisan leader for all people President-elect Obama clearly desires to display.



“Tim and I share a philosophy,” Obama said of Kaine. “It's a pragmatic, progressive philosophy that was at the heart of my campaign and will be at the heart of this administration. It's a philosophy that measures the strength of an idea not by whether it's Republican or Democrat, but whether it can actually solve a problem and make a difference in people's lives.”

Outgoing DNC Chairman Howard Dean was not present at today's announcement. He was, instead, traveling to America Samoa in his final two weeks as chairman. But Obama and Kaine both paid tribute to his tenure overseeing the party that made historic gains in the last few years.

“Having steered the Democratic Party through two successful elections, Howard deserves enormous credit for helping usher in a new era in Washington,” President-elect Obama said. “And now is the time not only to build on Howard's record of achievement, but to remake the Democratic Party to meet the challenges of the 21st century.”

The president-elect also took care of a little inside baseball when he made sure to praise his incoming Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel for his work in helping win back the House back for Democrats in 2006. There was a very public feud between Emanuel, along with his Senate counterpart Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and DNC Chairman Howard Dean during the 2006 midterm elections about the efficacy of Dean's 50-state strategy -- a plan that had the DNC dedicating precious resources to states where the party had very little chance of getting many Democrats elected.

more at link

[struggle4progress]

29. "Tim Kaine .. was elected DNC Chair on January 21, 2009 ..."

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/chairman/aboutthechairman.html

[Smarmie Doofus]

38. Elected chair on Jan 21 and Obama congratulates him on Jan 8?

Leads one to conclude that the "election" is a formality ( if not a sham) and DSC is essentially correct: President picks the DNC chief.

Was he elected over Obama's objection? 'Course not. Would they the committee members have defied the newly elected President. 'Course not.

Anyway... although Kaine's been all over the map on GLBT issues, I really can't see any monumental significance in the outcome of this debate.

My issue is with the *mentality* of the party leadership as a whole; not with a former Gov. of Va. who, by definition, has had to tread softly on GLBT issues to maintain viability in Va.

But remember, he's not Gov of Va. anymore.

[struggle4progress]

30. Here's a link to a transcript of the 8 Jan Obama/Kaine presser:

January 08, 2009
Obama Announces Kaine as Next DNC Chairman
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/01/obama_announces_kaine_as_next.html

I think all that means is that the outcome of the backroom DNC fight was completely obvious by 8 January -- but it's too ambiguous to persuade me that your interpretation is correct, and it sounds close enough to your interpretation that the transcripts can't possibly persuade you that my interpretation is correct

[dsc]

32. Just what do these words mean if we are wrong

I want to thank the president-elect for his confidence in me. I have been honored to serve 15 years in elected -- in elective office, entering my last year as governor of Virginia, and I pledge to do my very best to continue to keep his trust in this very important job.

end of quote from your link

I can't think of any other meaning for those words than Obama is the man he has to please to get and keep the job. No mention of state chairs, no mention of state vice chairs. Only Obama because it is Obama that picked him, and rightfully so. My problem isn't that Obama got to pick the chair it is who he chose to pick.

[struggle4progress]

33. The barroom brawl for the DNC chair was over, and everyone was getting back on the train

for another joyous unity ride. The Chief Honcho drops by and says nice things about the guy who won the brawl

[dsc]

34. those were Kaine's words not Obama's

Kaine talked about earning Obama's trust and mentioned not one word about anyone else's trust.

[struggle4progress]

35. .

:shrug:

[dsc]

36. This clearly implies you were attributing the quote to Obama

The barroom brawl for the DNC chair was over, and everyone was getting back on the train
for another joyous unity ride. The Chief Honcho drops by and says nice things about the guy who won the brawl

end of quote

The quote I provided was from Kaine and about Obama.

[struggle4progress]

37. Unless I read very badly your quote thanks Chief for saying nice things,

presumably because he did say nice things. And -- unless I read very very badly -- the transcript supports that presumption

So far we have established:

(1) Obama said nice things about Kaine
(2) Kaine thanked Obama for saying nice things

It is not an awfully exciting conversation, though on reflection I think it sounds better than some I myself have had recently

The Obamas moved into a DC hotel on 4 January; their kids started school on 5 January; they were going to move into Blair House on 15 January, and they were going to move again less than a week later. During that two and a half week period, I suspect the President-elect had many conversations built on the same template

[jonnyblitz]

31. "Tim and I share a philosophy...." nt

[donco6]

9. Here's what I have on Kaine:

1) During a debate for the Lt. Governor's nomination on May 24, 2001, Tim Kaine said he supported "civil benefits" for same sex couples. The RT-D coverage from May 25th noted, "The candidates differed on little during last night's debate, agreeing on issues ranging from abortion rights to support of gay civil unions and the need for gun control."

2) When Tim Kaine was challenged on this issue by Republican Lt. Governor candidate Jay Katzen, he granted an interview to Richmond Style Magazine. The July 31, 2001 article states:

"I think the institution of marriage is fine. I don’t believe we need to create an alternative," Kaine tells Style. "Gays and lesbians should not be discriminated against in housing, or employment. When the question came up in the debate I said I support changing the state discrimination laws to ."

3) Kaine hedged again in the September 7, 2001 issue of the Washington Blade:

Only Kaine, a civil rights lawyer, has spoken in favor of granting certain rights to gay couples in long-term relationships. He said he supports the right of gay people in long-term relationships to enjoy the "civil benefits" available to married couples.

"I have never said I supported gay civil unions, gay marriages," Kaine told the AP last Friday. "I do believe that people shouldn’t be kicked out of their jobs or discriminated against because of who they are."

4) On November 18, 2003, the Massachusetts released its decision in Goodridge v. Massachusetts. Tim Kaine released a statement on the same day.

"Marriage between a man and a woman is the building block of the family and a keystone of our civil society. It has been so for centuries in societies around the world. I cannot agree with a court decision suddenly declaring that marriage must now be redefined to include unions between people of the same gender.

"Virginia defines marriage as being between a man and a woman and I strongly support that law. Regardless of the court ruling today in another state, I am confident that there is nothing in the Virginia or federal constitutions that would require Virginia to alter its longstanding policy about marriage."

That is, Tim Kaine doesn't think that either the Federal or the Virginia Constitution needs a constitutional amendment.

5) Tim Kaine reiterated his "stance" at AP day in December 8, 2004. In the Daily Progress's coverage of the story, we hear that:

The Democrat also insisted that he opposes gay marriage and gay civil unions but supports contractual rights for gay and lesbian Virginians.

Kilgore said he favors a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, which Kaine opposes.

6) Then, in an appearance before the Virginia Family Foundation Board on January 31st, we learn that:

Kilgore and Kaine said they support a constitutional amendment banning gay marriages. Both said they disapprove of adoptions by gay couples.

But Kaine said that when he was a missionary in Honduras, he witnessed orphans who were treated "hellaciously." As a consequence, he would favor allowing individual gays or lesbians to adopt, so long as they create a loving environment, he said.




And this is the type of tepid "support" we've come to expect from the Dems.

[struggle4progress]

16. Kaine Says He Will Campaign Against Same-Sex Marriage Ban (WaPo 2006)

By Chris L. Jenkins and Tim Craig
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 15, 2006

Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) urged Virginians to vote against a proposed constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage and civil unions, saying the ballot question puts thousands of unmarried couples at risk of losing a slew of benefits ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401556.html

[struggle4progress]

17. ... Kaine refused to sign a proposed constitutional amendment banning gay marriage ...

Tim Kaine
Biography
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/k/tim_kaine/index.html

[struggle4progress]

25. As PRIDE Month Begins, DNC Chairman Tim Kaine Celebrates (June 09)

http://www.democrats.org/a/2009/06/as_pride_month.php

[mitchtv]

10. I sent mine back saying

You didn't mention my priority, LGBT equality, don't ask me to contribute to stratey's party

[tbyg52]

18. Damn, and I threw the thing away unopened.

That'll teach me. Thank you all for doing what I should have done.

[NMMNG]

23. Face it

They're just letting you know where you rank in the scheme of things.

Return the favor next time they come crawling to you for $$$, votes or support.

[xchrom]

39. no -- and kaine is obama's man nt

picked by him and with his endorsement/support seated in the chair.

[sui generis]

40. this is the third year in a row

yeah, and it hasn't gotten any less annoying, sucking up to "mainstream democrats", whatever the hell that is.

[Smarmie Doofus]

42. More annoying this year. My ankles are still sore from marching...

... on DC last month. Not to mention my wallet.

I'm a "mainstream DEM". It's the crew that's at the helm that seems to be skirting the ideological fringe.