Suicide Leads to Calls for Improved Treatment of LGBT Mormons

[William769]

Bryan Egnew grew up in an observant LDS family in Arizona, the fourth of ten children. After graduating high school, he attended Brigham Young University, served a proselytizing mission in France, and then married in an LDS temple. He became the father of five children. He served in his local LDS congregation. He did everything that was asked of him.

And over the course of more than twenty years, Bryan slowly came to terms with the fact that he was attracted to men. Six years ago, Bryan confided his attraction with a friend he’d known since BYU days. Jahn Curran was a fellow Mormon, a father, and someone who’d also come to terms with his own homosexuality a few years earlier.

Jahn offered Bryan a listening ear, and some practical advice. When Bryan called a few months ago, saying he could keep his situation from his wife no longer, Jahn told him, "Be prepared to fight a legal battle. Get a lawyer. My wife was very upset with me. I was in the hallway of my house on my knees pleading with her for understanding. She yelled and screamed at me. She left the next day and never came back, and withheld the kids from me for months. She claimed that I was not a fit father unless I repented. I have spent thousands of dollars in court to preserve my relationship with my kids."

The reaction, Jahn says, was much the same when Bryan sat down with his own wife to confide in her. She also became very upset. And she packed the five kids (ages 6 to 16), moved them across state lines from the family’s home in North Carolina to Tennessee, and initiated legal proceedings to prevent Bryan from seeing them. She also contacted the bishop in her local Mormon congregation and "confessed Bryan's sins for him."

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/joannabrooks/5204/suicide_leads_to_calls_for_improved_treatment_of_lgbt_mormons__/

[alp227]

1. maybe LGBT's should just leave religion altogether since religions are just too hostile

except for a few churches like the Metropolitan or Unitarian Universalist as I recall.

[William769]

3. I disagree to me that would be like asking a Gay person not to be Gay

Because people are hostile towards them. Yes I am a person of faith I am also Gay. I would never leave either.

I prefer to fight for my religion & what I believe it stands for just as I do as a Gay person.

I know it's a long hard road I have to go down but I have been doing it my whole life & will contine to do so for both.

After all both have made me what I am today.

[murielm99]

4. Thank you for being willing to fight for your faith as well

as your rights as a gay person. You are very brave.

You have some straight allies in the church community, too.

[William769]

5. I know we have straight allies.

They help make that road a little less bumpy. :hi:

I belong to Metropolitan Community Church. It started in the living room of Reverend Troy Perry in the mid 1960's. Today we have congregations worldwide. Our fellowship welcomes all no exceptions.

[Divine Discontent]

7. nice pic. I like listening to Candace Chellew Hodge. She's helped me keep my faith strong.

http://www.whosoever.org/


http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128002960205017719

[Divine Discontent]

6. Thank you, William769, for this post! I will not abandon my faith to please the ignorant extremists

who say we cannot have faith in a god. I believe Jesus and His promise of "whosoever believes shall not perish", and I'll be damned (never got to say that one in that way before) if I reject my beliefs.

We hear some of our fellow DUers make good points on here about, "their belief in a god must not be that strong if they get so defensive", and things of that nature. Well, I am one of many I know who will not turn from our beliefs.

It's a long hard road we walk. All of us.

And, you're right, both are who you are today.

:hug: (and I'm glad things are going swimmingly for you, btw!)


http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128002960205017719

[LAGC]

9. Hmm... I guess I still don't understand why anyone would choose to remain a Christian when...

...passages like these are found in their Holy Text:

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet" -- Romans 1:26-27

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." -- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

That's the NEW TESTAMENT speaking mind you, not just the Old Testament with its "angry God" that everyone likes to brush aside and ignore out of convenience.

Why even lend credence to such hateful bile as is present in the Bible?

There are plenty of other religions that give you that same sense of fulfillment and euphoria as believing in Jesus does. Why close your mind to just Christianity?

[William769]

10. The Bible may be Gods word but it was written by man.

How many times has it been translated since it was first written? And how many years ago was that?

Our U.S. Constitution was written a little over 200 years ago by man. Does everybody interpret it the same? I think not.

To me God is Love, Hope, Peace, Charity... To others maybe not.

My faith is unwavering, it gives me hope in these trying times. If thats not your cup of tea so be it.

I won't belittle you for your beliefs or non beliefs, but I would expect the same in kind.

Go in peace.

[LAGC]

12. Are there any translations that don't speak negatively about same-sex relations?

Honest question. I'm not trying to belittle, just trying to understand.

If you want to say that we can't trust the translations because its been re-translated so many times, how can you be so sure about what the Bible says about Jesus?

Believing in God I can understand, but why Jesus and why the Bible?

[William769]

13. Yes there are.

Samuel 18:1,3

"And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul . . . And Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul."



And immediately afterward, Jonathan disrobed before David:



1 Samuel 18:4



"Jonathan divested himself of the mantle he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his military dress, and his sword, his bow and his belt.



Jonathan was not only disrobing, but was turning the symbols of his manhood over to David. This draws a very clear picture of what is happening here.



1 Samuel 20:30

"Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?"



Reference to the nakedness of one's parents is one of the methods used in the Bible to refer to a sexual relationship. Jonathan had chosen David as his lover. And in the same conversations Saul says:



1 Samuel 20:31

Why, as long as the son of Jesse lives upon the earth you cannot make good your claim to the kingship!



This clarifies Saul's problem. One of the most important duties of being a king was producing an heir. Obviously, Jonathan had no intention of producing an heir, and therefore could not provide the final step needed to make good his claim to the kingship. He loved David and *only* David.



1 Samuel 20:41

" . . . they kissed one another, and wept one with another . . . "



Here they are displaying a deep affection for one another, and showing an emotional attachment well beyond what would be shown by two heterosexuals in a similar situation. They actually weep together because of their upcoming forced separation.



2 Samuel 1:26

"I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."

[LAGC]

15. You've gotten me confused now.

Just a moment ago you were implying that we can't trust the translations since they were done by man, and man makes mistakes.

Yet here you are apparently trusting a completely different part of scripture as sacrosanct.

I'm not denying that a person can cherry-pick particular verses and interpret them to favor one position or another -- indeed, many parts of the Bible seemingly contradict each other.

I guess what I don't understand is why you would give more weight to those particular passages that support your political views, while just dismissing those that don't? Isn't this the same thing everyone accuses the right-wing fundies of, of just embracing all the hateful things in the Bible, while just ignoring things like "Judge not lest ye be judged?"

Although we can probably both agree that Jesus never said anything in favor or against same-sex relations himself, at least not in the Gospels.

[William769]

16. You showed negative parts of the Bible.

I countered it with Positive parts of the Bible.

As I said above, I believe in the good.

Also it's not my political view I'm giving more weight to it's what I believe.

Also I was just answering your question "Are there any translations that don't speak negatively about same-sex relations?" but apparently you did not like my answer.

Like I said earlier you believe what you want to believe & I will believe what I believe.

P.S. Passive aggressive never works with me.

[LAGC]

17. So the negative parts of the Bible don't bother you at all?

If so, just say so.

You don't have to accuse me of being "passive aggressive" on you. Geez.

I'm just trying to understand.

When I asked "are there any translations that don't speak negatively" I was speaking of those two particular verses I referenced up above. I was just wondering if there were any liberal translations that maybe painted those particular verses in a less negative light.

But if the answer is "no", so be it.

If those verses don't bother you, then I guess that's your business, not mine.

I guess I just have a hard time seeing the Bible as the "inspired word of God" when such hateful passages are in there at all.

[Divine Discontent]

19. yep, that's one of the most powerful. I shared that with a friend who was shocked when he finally

paid attention to what was written in it. Of course, the fundies tell him don't be deceived. lolz

[William769]

14. There is also Ruth and Naomi, you also have Daniel and Ashpenaz.

[Divine Discontent]

18. Paul was as prudish as you could get. If the world followed his statements no one would marry and

have kids, as he says everyone should stay single and witness for Christ. Also, Christian belief is based on Christ, and therefore, His promises have dominion over anything the church that came after Him says, which Paul was a major part of. Jesus said Whosoever lives and believes in me shall not perish but have everlasting life. That's all anyone needs to hear. The reason for so much rancor in religion is all these canonizations of scripture by the Catholic church and people's new word changes into the NIV and other bible versions. I think there's a few versions that say "homosexual" instead of effeminate, for example. The belief among many scholars is that the reference was referring to male prostitutes in the temple. Regardless, it is up to each person to decide what they wish to believe. I respect all to have whatever opinion about the statements they want.

[w8liftinglady]

8. there ARE churches who love us as we are.

We have a magnificent one in Dallas
http://www2.cathedralofhope.com/new

[William769]

11. Thanks for the link.

Alway looking for great places of worship.

[w8liftinglady]

22. I referred a gay patient and a patient with a gay family member there

Both were abandoned by the Catholic church and found true love of God at Cathedral of Hope.One of the few places in Dallas that performs gay civil unions in a religious setting(gay marriage does not exist here).

[Lyric]

25. Uh, sorry but NO.

Religion is a choice, and you can change your religion whenever you want to. You don't choose your sexual orientation. Please don't compare the two.

[Zorra]

21. Jesus Christ would be right up in the faces of the hateful bullies..

I really wish that conscious religious folks would start putting intense pressure on their denominational sisters and brothers that hate us so much.

Conscious religious folks should be giving the bullies a constant barrage stream of "pray away the hate".

Telling their pastors to stop preaching bigotry.

It seems to me like they are generally afraid to take a face to face stand against the bullies in their congregations/denominations.

From what I read in the Gospels, it seems that Jesus wasn't afraid of anything.

[mitchtv]

2. being raised an RC, I understand how

the hate and bigotry can infiltrate their whole lifes. Religions are poisonous

[closeupready]

23. Likewise. As I age, I put more distance between myself and organized religion.

To the point now, where whenever someone mentions some religion (or God) to me, warning lights go off.

I sometimes wish I weren't like that, but Abrahamic religions and homophobia seem to go hand in hand, despite a few denominations which aren't.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

20. Not Every Religious Person Out There

hates GLBTs. And the only way someone can take your faith from you is if YOU let them. If you believe that strongly, if you can, FIGHT. No one has the right to say that you cannot have a relationship with your god. It is that simple.

[closeupready]

24. They can take your religion away if you consider yourself Catholic, esp. if

the Pope says he's speaking ex-cathedra - i.e., infallibly. To cross that is to risk ex-communication, i.e., taking the religion away from members.

[LeftinOH]

26. Being a Mormon is a choice --not for Mormon kids, though. Must be devastating

to realize as an adult that the faith you grew up in hates you.. and that if you leave the faith, you'll be cut off from your family.