How gay is too gay?

[kweerwolf]

(From The Guardian)

Can you be just a little bit gay? Is gayness ever just a phase? These are serious, difficult questions, as Michael Portillo, for one, will tell you. But yesterday some light was thrown on the subject by none other than the Catholic church. The Vatican published a new edict on its position on priests and homosexuality, one approved by the new pope, and the answer to all these questions, it emerges, is "yes".

The Vatican's document states that candidates for the priesthood with "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" and those who actively support "gay culture" need not apply, on the basis (in precis) that they are past saving. But candidates who have suffered only a "transitory problem" with gayness need not give up hope of a place in the seminary, just so long as three years have passed between them "overcoming" the "problem" and them entering the priesthood.
In short, young priests may have a closet, and they may once have peered out of the keyhole, or even stepped out for a moment, but from now on, the closet door must remain tight shut. Or, to put it another way, homosexuality is very much like smoking - a few years off the fags, and you're all nice and pure again.

There is no mention, in this document, of the 30-50% of priests already in the church who are claimed (by Catholic gay rights campaigners, but still) to be gay. And it goes without saying that while transitory problems with gayness may, with time, be acceptable, celibacy remains a strict requirement for all priests, and gayness in general remains un-OK for lay Catholics. (Quite how this can claim to be any sort of response to the church's record of child abuse is unclear, but that is another matter.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1653704,00.html

[bliss_eternal]

1. Why do they make the assumption

that those that molest boys have to be gay--that's so insulting, imo!

Sure there probably are priests that are gay, but to presume that it's the ones that molest is misleading, to say the least.

Two seperate issues--homosexual priests and pedophile priests. I wish they could keep this straight.

:grr:

[MercutioATC]

3. That's a major Fundie issue, too. They think gay = pedophile.

I had a Fundie co-worker go off on me because I said that I'd let my son go on a camping trip with a gay Scoutmaster (purely hypothetical...my son's not a Boy Scout and I wouldn't let him be one due to their anti-gay stance).

He told me I was "sick".


I tried to explain to him that being gay and being a pedophile were different things, but he really believed they were the same thing. I then told him that, since he was straight, he obviously molested little girls.

He wasn't amused.

[bliss_eternal]

4. Ugh! Some people...

it doesn't help that the media perpetuates such stereotypes and theories. Popular culture (tv, film, etc.) doesn't help much either.

Good for you for trying to bring the guy to reality--sorry it didn't help much.

:(

[TaleWgnDg]

5. Exactly . . . why is the Vatican scape-goating homosexuals?

.
Exactly . . . why is the Vatican scape-goating homosexuals? Is it to further the Vatican's own end? Its own need? Of course it is.

Why should the Vatican blame themselves for decades (centuries?) of poor governance?

Why should the Vatican blame themselves for educating, ordaining, hiring, promoting, and employing mentally ill pedophile priests?

Why should the Vatican openly admit that which has been factually proven in courts-of-law around the globe? That it is by their own hand, that of the Vatican, that has caused many boys and girls to be sexually abused by the Roman Catholic Church who were (and continue to be) entrusted into their care? And, that in doing so, the Vatican knowingly allowed mentally ill -- pedophile priests -- to be transferred parish-to-parish, church-to-church for decades? for centuries? thereby perpetuating such sexual abuse of children.

Why should the authoritative Vatican -- "God said it, I believe it" -- incorporate medical science at this point in its reactionary edicts? Instead, why not merely continue to blame others for its own heinous behavior? Blame homosexuals. Smear homosexuals. Infer that homosexuals *get off* sexually abusing children entrusted into the care of the Roman Catholic Church.

All that being said, does not negate the plethora of medical documentation indicating homosexuals are no more prone to pedophilia than are heterosexuals! And there lies the rub. And the lies from Rome. The all-powerful Vatican!

See, e.g., http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x21147
((1.) Read this Vatican document, "Concerning the Criteria of Vocational Discernment Regarding Persons with Homosexual Tendencies, Considering Their Admission to Seminary and to Holy Orders" translated from Italian to English; (2.) PBS NewsHour transcript about this Vatican document; and (3.) comments about same from DUers)
.

[bliss_eternal]

6. The Vatican promotes sickness and dysfunction

(in my opinion) in the following ways:

1) By covering up the crimes of the priests that molested, instead of getting those priests out of the churches, allowing them to be charged with crimes and insisting that they get help.

2) By not allowing women to serve as priests or ministers in the Catholic church. This sends a message that women are still somehow not capable of guiding men, women and children in spirituality and religion--bs.

3) By not allowing priests to marry. Excuse me, but why is some guy that can't do half of what I can do, supposed be be allowed to hear my sins? That's crap!

I'm sure there are many other ways, but these are the areas that bug me the most.

The Vatican and the Catholic church have bigger problems--I wish they would deal with them and stop scapegoating gays. First of all, stop oppressing priests--let them marry as straight or gay. And get all the molesters OUT of the churches!

What's with everyone trying to take attention off of their own bad behaviour by shifting the focus to gays?

I'll be very happy when it's no longer 'in vogue' for govt. and religion to oppress gays.

[bammertheblue]

8. My boy brought home the paper

with this headline and I almost cried.
Instead, I threw the paper against the blinds. Very constructive, I know.
It just tears me up inside, because I have several gay friends who wanted to be priests and were kicked out of seminary when they came out.
How DARE the vatican insinuate that they would molest a child or are somehow less fit to be a priest than a straight man! I can't even think about it without becoming irate.

[TaleWgnDg]

9. Welcome to DU, bammertheblue . . .

and it's healthful to be angry. Good for you.

Yes, Rome has a proven track record of being reactionary and unable to assimilate realities.

For many years, I've assisted couples as they dissolve their marriage or other living arrangement, resolve child custody issues, as well as other family related legal matters. I've met all kinds of people. All kinds. After almost 40 years of this experience, I've found that gays don't sexually abuse children any more than do straights. And, the medical, including psychiatric, community agrees.

It's tragic that gays are so smeared and scapegoated.

[madrchsod]

2. you would think after 1600 years the "church"

could solve the issue but i suppose they just keep sweeping the problem under the rug

[TaleWgnDg]

7. Yup, Rome gets *off* blaming homosexuals for its own

.
Yup, Rome gets *off* blaming homosexuals for its own problems but then only those homosexuals that Rome weeds out at the seminary entrance door, not homosexuals that are already ordained. Because the numbers of ordained priests are decreasing and are needed, have been promoted, and are in authority within the Church.

It goes w/o saying that if the sexual abuse of children were perp'd by homosexual priests then wouldn't it follow that all homosexual priests should be removed?

So what's really going on?

Rome has failed once again to openly admit that it allowed pedophiles -- mentally ill priests -- to sexually abuse children entrusted into the care of the Roman Catholic Church, period. Rome has failed, once again, to remediate this problem. Rome knows as well as the world knows that homosexuals are no more prone to sexually abusing children than are heterosexuals. Open any worthwhile psychiatric or psychological clinical study about this subject, it's there! Grab a copy of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) and analyze this subject matter. Who are pedophiles and what is pedophilia is readily available. Wha? Rome cannot read? I doubt that!

This new Vatican document entitled, "Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with Regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in View of Their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders," is nothing more than an attempted deflection away from the actual causation of sexual abuse of children entrusted into the care of the Roman Catholic Church.
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edited to fix the hyperlink
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