Best of DU Thread - (non-inflammatory) LGBT Edition - #5

[Zuiderelle]

Ok, let's give it a shot then. Let's call this the "gays should wait for equality" thread.

I'm seeing a lot of "why can't gay marriage wait until after the election" types of sentiments... again. I think it would be useful to discuss it here. What say you?

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Ok, I'll start

We can't wait until after the election because that is what we were ORDERED to do last election. And the election before that. And the election before that.

I think a better question is: How long must we be forced to wait on what the US Supreme Court itself called a fundamental human right?

[Zuiderelle]

3. Here's an archived example from 2004.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=277328&mesg_id=277695

Under the subject "Solution to the Gay Marriage Election Issue"

This response:

What issue? This isnt an issue. Its not an issue. Its a red herring for those idiots who have their issues chosen by the LYING THIEVING MURDERERS in the White House. IGNORE IT.
Iraq is more than enough of an issue for this election. In fact, it is the only issue that needs to be addressed. Anything else is self fornication, an interesting trick, but a trick nonetheless.

and

If you think this election year distraction is going to benefit GLBT's, I would respectfully suggest that you are an optomist. By allowing the power that is in control of both parties to change the subject to suit their needs, you cant get anything done. It may as well be flag burning or abortion. They are playing you like a fiddle.

This could have been written today in GD-P. Verbatim almost.

And here's another from the past:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2777741

Some tidbits:

:-If gay marriage is one of the principle issues in the coming election, the chances are that the Democrats will lose. It (along with abortion, immigration, and possibly the so-called war on terror, although that may backfire) is one of the few weapons the Republicans have left.

:-Civil unions will be less controversial than gay marriage, but still probably cost the dems a lot more votes than they gain, possibly crucially.

:-I think that probably the strategy most likely to enhance gay rights is to try and avoid the issue entirely until after the election, and then pressure the government once it's been elected. I'm far from confident about that.

:-One of the few issues on which I agree with the anti-gay-rights lobby is that the word "marriage" means, and has always meant, a union between a man and a woman. I'm strongly in favour of both granting gays the right to legal civil unions and of calling them "marriage", but the pedant in me slightly regrets the latter.

:-It may be the case that the best way to attain gay marriage is to bring in gay civil unions, wait a few years to prove that the sky hasn't fallen, and then rename them "marriage". I'm not sure about that, thought.

[kenny blankenship]

128. Oh Techbear, a little PATIENCE, the wait list is really very short!

Don't you know that first we have to end war while defeating Islamofascism, bringing lasting peace to the middle east region and all of its peoples, but death to all the angry ones, no matter the cost, while repairing our credit sufficiently to enable us to afford universal health care, and then complete our transition from biomass based carbon emitting fuels over to clean burning nuclear fusion power, allowing us to banish the internal combustion engine and begin to sequester greenhouse gasses on a net basis, thus restoring the global environment to its originally Edenic pre-Lapsarian pristine condition controlled at a constant 72° F before we can begin expending the political capital required to consider whether a... a...homosexual... is a human person with a subset of rights such as those enjoyed by corporations and naturally reproducing human males and females?

It's just that there's a few important things that have to get done first. Priorities, man!

One day, rest assured, equal rights for your kind will come. Differences of custom and law will have evened out and so the newly acknowledged "gay" rights will, I'm sure, be observed and celebrated by humankind on all the inhabited planets and orbital colonies. That is, it will come if geneticists and obstetrics haven't figured out a way to identify and eliminate all "gay-probable" births first.

[meegbear]

2. Boy I sure hope we help lose the 2008 presidential election ...

it would be so fitting that we, the gay community, should hoist our radical homosexual agenda on "straight society" and help the republicans win.

[xchrom]

4. all i can say is this -- if lgbtiq people bumped just a couple of clicks

on the population screen -- then you would suddenly a lot more 'concern' for us and what we say here.

[Zuiderelle]

5. We really need to get out there and recruit.

What slackers we are! :)

[xchrom]

8. we're going to have to come up with something more attractive than pannini grills. nt

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

11. I don't know.

I might be convinced to turn for a nice, imported Pannini Grill, one that comes with a cookbook. Or a Hermes' scarf. One that goes well with my ratty t-shirt collection might work. ;-)

[xchrom]

13. oh well then good news then -- we're in talks

with hermes!

we may do a scarf and shoes thing.

we're fighting right now about whether the shoes should be faux or real croc leather.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

42. I woud recommend...

Unborn virgin Tasmanian Devil skin. Oooo...comfy.

[Critters2]

236. I thought upgrading from toasters to pannini grills would be the charm.

Damn, these people are demanding!

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

90. Out of the closet, you mean?

I agree. A lot of gay youth are still kind of "at sea" when it comes to politics. Many have found a semi-happy niche (often with the help of alcohol and its friends) and they aren't very motivated to get active. If we could find a way to stir up more indignation among them and recruit them into the cause, we'd have a much stronger movement.

[RedLetterRev]

149. I don't even have enough points

to get the free toaster!

[Jamastiene]

46. Well, y'all COULD team up and work on getting ol' Jama here

a girlfrien...ah, screw it...a steady stream of hot women...

lined up to go out with down here in red state NC. I don't mean some half assed effort either. I mean talk me up like the studly long tongued, long fingered lesbian I am. I'm hung, I tell ya. We need to spread it far and wide so we can get more women down here to spread...I don't want to get this thread locked. I'll stop there. :holdingbackuncontrollablelaughter:

I still want the Deluxe Model Toaster, ya know. ;)


:hide:

:evilgrin:

:P

[Toasterlad]

65. As a Gay Man, I Find This Offensive.

Girls...ick!

:hide:

[msongs]

6. neither obama nor clinton will lead the fight for lgbt full equality - u can forget about them nt

[Zuiderelle]

7. In forgetting about them, do you mean we should just give up on it now?

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. It means we should not bother to hold our breath waiting for them to make a tinker's damn

We will be utterly forgotten -- yet again -- before the Electoral College meets to declare a winner.

[Zuiderelle]

22. Oh I agree we shouldn't expect it, but we should still fight for it.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. As I told a good friend...

Who is also an NJ Dem and Hillary supporter with juice the other day, when talking about Obama: You are not going to get anywhere without engaging the candidate and campaign. Individually and as a group. In her case, it was her concern regarding women's issues.

The same can be said for LGBTI issues. Sometimes you have to hit the mule between the eyes with a 2x4, to get its attention.

[jumptheshadow]

9. One of my answers to them

They and the politicians should read what Joan Walsh has to say about her personal experience with this issue:

>>As I've written before, I was once a cowardly civil unions supporter; I thought gay marriage was deadly for Democrats. But taking that position was like living in a dark, cramped house with low ceilings. Watching the explosion of love and jubilation -- and weddings, thousands of weddings -- that greeted Newsom's legalizing gay marriage in 2003 here in San Francisco was like walking out into bright sunlight. You just can't go back and live in politically and morally cramped quarters anymore.<<

She doesn't believe gay marriage will have an impact on this election:

>>Right on cue, some people are saying this gay marriage decision will doom the Democrats again, and I had two quick reactions: I honestly don't think so, and if it does, that's just the way it is. Six of seven Supreme Court justices were appointed by Republican governors, and three of them joined the 4-3 ruling (written by Republican Ronald George, who was appointed to the municipal bench by Ronald Reagan in 1972) that said, in fairly conservative language, that marriage is too important to society to exclude gay Californians. Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has said he'll uphold the ruling and will fight an effort to amend the state's constitution to overturn the ruling. Let John McCain try to ride this issue to a victory in California. I don't see it.<<

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/

Hmmm...we invaded a sovereign nation without legal imperative...our economy is teetering...we are losing our constitutional freedoms...we have abandoned the Geneva Conventions...our health care and educational systems are declining...our infrastructure is decayed....etc., etc., etc. And there are DUers who think that GAY MARRIAGE will lose the election for us? That's pretty shallow thinking.

[MuseRider]

10. I love this...

"I honestly don't think so, and if it does, that's just the way it is."

I have no dog in the fight and don't like the dogs that are fighting but at some point you have to say something similar to this. Now I know that is a very bad thing to say here on DU but as far as I see it there is one overall issue that makes this country what it is (or is supposed to be) and that is the issue of civil rights (justice and equality). Yes, everything else is important but if we are not what we say we are none of it will matter.

I have made the long journey from life long Democrat to new unaffiliated (socialist?) with a new understanding of what Ralph Nader said, we may very well have to sink deeper for people to really open their eyes to what is and has happened. We do not need a messiah or a rock star and we do not need a strong, willing to war candidate. We need a strong reformer who says to hell with this silliness and re-institutes the constitution and enforces it, ALL of it, rather than letting the lynch mob of majority rule over all. What the fuck ever happened to courage and integrity and when did those things become a liability?

[xchrom]

15. What the fuck ever happened to courage and integrity and when did those things become a liability?

when money became more important than anything else -- when we became consumers rather than citizens -- when america bought the argument that taxes equaled big government and govermnent in a democracy was necessarily evil.

when individualism became a religion -- rather than a mere descriptive quality.

this is what i have maitained about o and the donnie mcklurkin thing -- that stuff has deep deep meaning and it ain't pretty.
and it is deeply homophobic -- but there is no price to be paid for that.

hollowness and shallowness is king -- for now.

[jumptheshadow]

24. It's more than money...

It's the 24-hour news cycle, the gossip culture and the way Americans dwell on trivialities to the detriment of more serious topics. It's broadcast journalism. I can remember when the broadcast people used to ask a print journalism friend to tell them what happened in courtrooms because they had missed it and had a deadline to meet. They weren't even interested enough to witness "the news" themselves. It's a terminal shallowness in our society that values botox beauty over wisdom and honesty.

As far as gay marriage, well here goes: I am an older DUer. I come from a conservative Irish Catholic family and my grandfather was a Republican politician who ran on Church-oriented values. It wasn't easy coming out in my family during my generation. Yet, I can sincerely say that every single member of my extended family respects my 17-year marriage. It took direct exposure to somebody they loved and respected to change their minds. One of these days we will reach critical mass and some of our politicians will develop a backbone. Don't expect it to be soon, however: Look at how long it's taking to get universal healthcare and that issue hasn't been stigmatized by religion. Look at how long it's taking to get the idiotic marijuana laws repealed. It took two and a half generations to get from Brown vs. Board to a serious black presidential contender.

[xchrom]

43. a serious african american contender who used lgbtiq people

to get to the top of the heap by playing on the 19th century fears of gay people.

ex-gay ministries combine the bigotry and science{which in modern times has done FAR more to damage gay people than religion}
and he has gotten away with it scott free.

and i'm not so young myself -- and money is what it's all about in this culture -- or it has become since reagan.

[jumptheshadow]

53. Yep, he disavowed Wright but not McClurkin

And he wouldn't have his photo taken with Gavin Newsome, whose heroic actions may prove to be the turning point for marriage rights.

He also stayed away from a civil rights demonstration, but when complaints were lodged about it, he called black leaders and made them campaign advisers. Was any similar outreach done for the gay community after McClurkin?

Now I have fallen into the trap. When Obama emerged as a serious candidate in Iowa, I was thrilled that, for once, nobody was mentioning race. Then I was disheartened when it became all about race 24 hours a day. Lately, the "discourse" has been about bashing particular individuals or groups of people, whether they be gays, the transgendered, women, feminists, Appalachians or DU posters, who while debating issues, are labeled racists.

We will have to agree to disagree about religion and science. Perhaps it's a matter of perspective.

[xchrom]

55. re: the science -- it was medical science from the

last half of the 19th century through to the 70's that were the chiefs proponents of our persecution.

we ended up in asylums being drugged or given shock therapy in order to cure us because of medical science -- churches mostly turned a blind eye to existence.
homosexuality -- certainly a sin -- but one in a list. - in what was a generally oppressive time.

ironic that after having fought so hard to get science off our backs -- we wind up in their hands with this epidemic.

[LostinVA]

122. And, this showed on the Prop 8 vote last night

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. how about acceptable homophobic VP choices? does that bother anyone?

[xchrom]

17. me. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. as is i dont trust obama on glbt issues, but if he were to pick richardson or nunn

i am going to have to write in my vote


also x-chrom i loveya. i just thought i should throw this in. :loveya:

[Zuiderelle]

23. I'm tending towards being with you there. Bad enough we won't get a pro-equality president,

at least we shouldn't have to put up with an even worse VP.

Personally I'm sick to death of voting for everyone else's good. I'm done with half my life already, and am still a second-class citizen.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. i live in a blue state, its not like my vote will mean mccain or not-mccain

and i dont think i could bear to say i voted for nunn

[Zuiderelle]

26. Good point. If I was in NY I would also write it in if we get Richardson or Nunn.

[Jamastiene]

47. 1/3 of my life here.

It's disgusting that we still cannot get them to listen to us. All they ever tell us is "wait until after the election." Well, we are sick and tired of waiting. Patience runs out. Maybe we need to organize a Million GLBT and SBNN March no matter who gets into the White House next.

[mitchtv]

30. I don't find Richardson homophobic

H juet gave a wrong answer. GLBT rights seem to be progressin in NM. I think he was just nervous., and he quickly corrected that choice statement . Nunn on the other hand would cost Obama my vote

[TechBear_Seattle]

20. I think you mean "acceptably homophobic."

The rank-and-file liberals would not accept someone who is Fred Phelps homophobic, and probably not someone who is Pat Robertson homophobic. But someone who is Barak Obama homophobic -- "hate the sin but love the sinner" and "My religion means I believe gay marriage is wrong" and "I will respect state decisions insofar as I can continue to discriminate at the federal level" homophobic -- THAT is a different kettle of fish.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. i meant more homophobic than the norm of dems. i think richardson and nunn

are more homophobic than others are.

i saw a gd thread about it where people's concern was more w.nunn's age than his hatred for equality

[dsc]

31. that would have been my poll

and I was deeply disappointed.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. so was i. obama looks like he is going to be our candidate, and i am preparing for it

the loss of hrc is a big deal to me, but i will not vote for a ticket w.a known homophobe.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

91. Democratic GLBT proposal platform

1. Support "civil unions" for now, this is one issue where I'm willing to make a (hopefully short term) bargain with the devil.

2. Allow gays to serve openly in the military. Hold all soldiers to the same standards of personal and interpersonal conduct regardless of orientation.

3. Crack down on schoolhouse homophobia by conducting frequent audits and tying funding to a school's success in maintaining a welcoming social climate.

4. To eliminate anti-sex attitudes that could be implied by the compromise on #1, eliminate the phrase "abstinence until marriage" from all sex ed classes. (this would also be a good opportunity to slide comprehensive ed in there)

5. Employment anti-discrimination act for all private employers not directly affiliated with a church. Ditto for housing, insurance, credit, and finance.

6. Combat inequality in entertainment rating systems so that sex scenes of equal explicity don't get different ratings if they are gay vs straight. (this is more important than you might think of at first since the rating sends a message of age-appropriateness and NC-17s are largely ostracized from the mainstream market).

=====
Feel free to add to this list with your replies.

[Jamastiene]

50. I still question why so many Republican choices are being discussed.

How many Presidents in our history have had Veeps of a different party?* This is NOT common, nor is is wise for our party.



































* Presidents whose VP belonged to a different party

* John Adams (Federalist): Democratic Republican Thomas Jefferson was his VP.
* Abraham Lincoln (Republican): Democrat Andrew Johnson served as his second VP.
Source: http://www.heptune.com/preslist.html#Party

[ThomCat]

93. Yes. It's a serious concern.

Because we already know that O is willing to tollerate homophobia. A VP that is the same or worse is going to totally destroy any chance we have of making progress.

[The Great Escape]

16. Can We Link To Homophobic Posts On Other Progressive Sites....

or do we have to be civil to those bigots as well? Or can I even call a bigot a bigot?

[Lithos]

29. Yes, you can link

And yes you can provided they are not a DU member.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[dsc]

32. so we can't even call out people here for things they publicly state elsewehre?

are you kidding?

[Lithos]

34. No

These rules have been in place for sometime.

Personal Attacks, Civility and Respect

The administrators of Democratic Underground are working to provide a place where progressives can share ideas and debate in an atmosphere of mutual respect. Despite our best efforts, some of our members often stray from this ideal and cheapen the quality of discourse for everyone else. Unfortunately, it is simply impossible to write a comprehensive set of rules forbidding every type of antisocial behavior. The fact that the rules do not forbid a certain type of post does not automatically make an uncivil post appropriate, nor does it imply that the administrators approve of disrespectful behavior. Every member of this community has a responsibility to participate in a respectful manner, and to help foster an atmosphere of thoughtful discussion. In this regard, we strongly advise that our members exercise a little common decency, rather than trying to parse the message board rules to figure out what type of antisocial behavior is not forbidden.

Do not post personal attacks or engage in name-calling against other individual members of this discussion board. Even very mild personal attacks are forbidden.

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You are permitted to criticize public figures, who are not protected under our rules against personal attacks. However, if a public figure is a member of our community, that person is protected by our rules and you are not permitted to personally attack that person. (You are permitted to offer constructive criticism of their activities as a public figure.)

If you do not like someone, please be aware that you have the option of putting that person on your ignore list. Just click the ignore icon on one of their posts.

There are no exceptions to these civility rules. You cannot attack someone because they attacked you first, or because that person "deserved it," or because you think someone is a disruptor. We consider it a personal attack to call a liar a liar, to call a moron a moron, or to call a jerk a jerk.

If you can PROVE a DU members non-DU comments are bigoted and indicative of their real opinions, then please PM this information to DU Administration. Having the same username is probably not going to be sufficient - there are too many examples of handles being coopted by others either deliberately or accidentally. Even so, people are primarily judged by their behavior on DU.

[Zuiderelle]

35. Nowhere in there does it say that we cannot point out homophobia.

We can point out homophobia without saying or even implying that someone is unwelcome. It is not the people that do this that are unwelcome, it's their bigotry that is. That's a pretty clear distinction in my book.

A progressive site like this one purports to be should be ENCOURAGING its members to point out examples of non-progressive thoughts, especially clearly bigoted ones. When alerting often doesn't work, it's very demeaning to us for us to not have some outlet for our frustration.

This is a very, very bad decision.

[LostinVA]

56. What you said

This current rule change is absurd and inconsistent.

[Jamastiene]

49. What if we happen to link to another site and that certain person

is a DUer who is using a different user name at the other site and we didn't know it when we posted said link?

Also, can we take individual sentences that are homophobic and quote them here to discuss what is homophobic about the sentence itself provided we do not say or imply who said it? In other words, can we at least use a sentence or phrase that is homophobic and discuss that as an unattributed quoteby anonymous as opposed to linking to the post in question?

[racaulk]

27. Did anyone ever get a list of appropriate words we can now use?

I know that "bigot" is off limits. Are there any others?

:eyes:

[queerart]

33. Your Question Makes Alot Of Sense........

What words are acceptable for not only the Queers to use....


But where might one find the list of words that the Haters can no longer use?


.... and just wondering in a non-inflammatory way...... Are any of the Mods Club Members?


Things that make you go Hummmmmmmmmm..............

[Jamastiene]

48. "homophobic," "gay," "a," "an," "the,"

and "prejudiced." I think those are the others we are not allowed to say. :pals:

[LostinVA]

58. Don't forget "breeder"

Especially when heterosexual members of DU use it to refer to themselves.

[Jamastiene]

59. Yep.

Thanks. I can't believe I forgot that one.

[MuseRider]

60. You can't use breeder?

I remember a couple of people making a stink about it but I did not know you can't use it. That is a shame, I think it is quite appropriate and not exactly an insult really, not at all like what gets spewed your way.

[LostinVA]

61. Several straight DUers got mod warnings for using it referring to themselves

And using words that rhyme with "breeder" referring to themselves.

I got a mod warning for it, and I didn't use the term. I just happened to be in the same thread/s.

[MuseRider]

62. Thanks LVA

I had no idea. I use it but perhaps nobody reads my posts? :( Never have I ever gotten a warning, here I think I am not long for this site with my "radical" beliefs and I see this. Hmmmmm.

This is truly outrageous and I am so sorry. Warned for being in a certain thread? Man that is low.

[readmoreoften]

74. Wait. We can't call a bigot a bigot anymore?

What about social segregationist?
I usually say hateful ignorant fuck. Is that still okay?

[bluedawg12]

118. Biased? Prejudiced? n/t

[Mabus]

28. I'm real conflicted

I mean I can kind of understand not calling people out on current threads for fear of a mob mentality but I've found the posts made as a result of calling people on what they posted as very informative. I had no idea there were so many posts containing homophobic references until I saw these threads. I also found a surprising number of repeat homophobes/bigots that populate DU. That revelation is still disconcerting to me.

I am disappointed that such threads can no longer be posted. Sometimes it is better for people to intervene in informative or rational way to idiocy as it is unfolding rather than wait and talk about it afterward. I don't think there was any piling on in the way that the DU rules are trying to discourage. I didn't see the threads as a battle-cry to go sic-um rather I saw them as opportunities to debate some points. Granted, the terms used to describe some of the posters on other threads wouldn't be considered neutral - far from it but being able to intelligently and rapidly respond to such threads elsewhere on DU was very informative and low on flamebait.

[LeftCoast]

36. 'non-inflammatory' ? Is that to spare hurt heterosexual feelings?

Perhaps we can have another heterosexual come in and tell us what's homophobic and fair to discuss around here. I sure wouldn't want to upset any of them.

[bliss_eternal]

37. I 'm very sorry...

...for my comments yesterday--and the ways my comments contributed to the discussion. My hope was to be helpful, as the person who's threads were being referred to. But I posted without full awareness of what was going on (I saw one thread was locked. Didn't know or even realize ALL Best of threads were locked here). :(

I totally misunderstood what was going on, and what members were reacting to. I sincerely thought the issue was a matter of linking to open threads, and clearly that wasn't the issue at all.

I am embarrassed that I spoke out of ignorance, but take responsibility for my actions. I hope that members of this forum can find it in their hearts to forgive me. My intent is to be supportive, and I feel I was less than (unknowingly) and for that I am sorry.

I stand by my prior comment that "The Best of" should continue here.
I sincerely hope it does.

If anyone would prefer--I'm open to placing this as a separate thread. Given that so many outsiders are posting in this forum (and my belief that this is inappropriate) I thought it best to respond w/in already started threads.

:hug:

edited for spelling.

[LeftCoast]

41. I need to apologize to you.

My comment was not addressed to 'you' specifically, but rather at the convoluted and tortured lengths we are now expected to go through in order to discuss homophobia as it occurs on DU.

I'm sorry I let my anger be misdirected toward you.

[Jamastiene]

51. You have always been very helpful and very supportive of the GLBT community

from what I have seen.

In case you are trying to apologize to all of us, I just wanted to say this:
Actually, I would be honored if you would be part of any team that ever works with the admins and mods here to come up with some cohesive, across the board, even handed rules for all involved for these types of threads. :pals:

[LostinVA]

57. Today's game is let's discuss homophobia without using the word "homophobic"

I wouldn't want to offend homophobes.

:puke:

[hulklogan]

38. While we're waiting for equality, could we at least have a comfy sofa and some snacks?

As things stand, waiting for equality in the USA is like waiting at the bus stop down the street from my house on a windy day.

[Zuiderelle]

39. while barefoot

in the middle of winter

[Creideiki]

40. Mmmm...potato chips.... /Homer

[TechBear_Seattle]

44. At least you know that the bus exist and will, eventually, arrive

I'm not at all sure about equality for GLTB.

[Mimosa]

45. I'm sure about equality for GLTB.

I think the people at DU are generally very tolerant and accepting of most viewpoints. I worked in the gay rights movement in the early through late 1970s. I have seen a whole lot of positive change.

[Jamastiene]

52. and maybe a few issues of Hustler and an escort or two for me?

while we are at it. This is going to take a while. I want enough pajamas to have pajama parties every night of the week and I'll need some Dr Pepper (some, haha, there is no "some" when it comes to my appetite for Dr Pepper). If you put in a machine, you'll need to have 2 rows of drinks be Dr Pepper just for me. Not sure if anyone else drinks it here. Might want to ask them.

Also, I have always wanted an over sized Teddy Bear or Lion stuffed animal. I need something to hug while I sleep....and ooooooh, can we have bunk beds and hot tubs? Why should the Mods be the only ones allowed to have hot tubs? Come on, y'all. Pony up with some goodies while we wait.

Speaking of waiting, will we have burial plots when we each start succumbing to old age? And no, not THAT kind, not your standard Ts. I'm talking about a place where elderly ancient GLBT DUers go to die while we wait for the right to even talk about equal rights. I want to be buried near Sapph, Buffy, LeftCoast, Harvey Korman, cboy4, Lefty Mom, flvegan, Chovexani, and 94114_San_Francisco. I certainly hope DU owns enough land for all the graves we'll need as we wait well into old age and end of life issues will need to be discussed too. Or can we do that? I want dsc to officiate my funeral.

Well, folks, looks like we are in for the long haul waiting for "our turn" to speak up about homophobia. Everyone pack a lunch and bring their sleeping bags? Might want to make sure to bring a book or two-hundred to read.

Also, will we have dental and medical care while we are in our padded, soundproof room? Also, can we visit each other in the DU Hospitals and DU Rest Homes? Or will we be told no and not to talk about that too? Surely, you wouldn't leave us all without the basic human rights everyone else has. Oops, I asked about a real issue that the GLBT community faces. Is that still allowed. Hold me back, y'all. They might get all pissed at me. Who knows what they'll do? :scared:

That is THE SUCKIEST part of it all. We in the GLBT community, both in real life and online, have to live by a completely separate set of rules. I'm talking rules so hairy and full of strange loopholes that we need a team of lawyers to explain them to us, yet those rules are never laid out in a complete list somewhere. Most cities, towns, states, and countries have a standard set of rules laid out by their government for the straight people to follow. There is no guesswork for them. They pretty much reach a point in adulthood, where they KNOW what the rules are.

For us, though, the rules aren't even written down anywhere. We just have to stumble through life and try to figure out what is forbidden, other than our very existence, and what straight rules apply to us.

The rules are liquid, ever changing, with literally dozens of different meanings depending on the occasion...when it comes to us. It's all just so confusing. And to think, I thought I understood DU rules to be quite clear. I guess I've been misreading them all this time.

[NMDemDist2]

63. Gay Rights are Civil Rights

period, end of discussion.

Why is that so hard for so many to understand?

:banghead:

I'm not asking you to wait, this issue is about the only one I argue with my husband about. At least as 50something hetros (don't you dare call us 'breeders' we didn't and we aren't) he's starting to 'get it' after literally years of my talking to him.

but if truth be known, he's come around after me watching GayUSA weekly and he at first thought Anne and Andy were funny, but now he sees the issue for what it is..... a denial of rights to a specific community of people.

Fight on, my friends, and I'll be there for you with my vote and my voice.

:yourock:

[mitchtv]

64. so I guess egg packers is also out?

Just wanna keep current

[NMDemDist2]

66. ....

:spank:


:cry:

[Bluenorthwest]

67. The United States Constitution

Says we all have a right to equal protection under the law. Those who do not support universal equality simply do not support the Constitution. It is that simple.

[Lyric]

68. Here's one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3323403&mesg_id=3323528

Apparently we all just expect to be "kow-towed" to.

:eyes:

[Maven]

69. I hope Karl has a good time getting "CORN HOLED"

:puke:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3339610&mesg_id=3339610

Some of the replies on the subject of Rove's sexuality are predictable.

[Duncan Grant]

70. Is public support for LGBT people a liability for Obama in the general election?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6303026#6303792

[MNBrewer]

71. No

:beer:

[terrya]

73. Ugh, HIM.

God. That dumbass just doesn't get it.

I'm sincerely hoping that that stupid, neandethal attitude won't fly this time around here...or in the electorate itself.

[Zuiderelle]

75. Sigh

I don't have the energy to deal with that sort of crap. again. and again. and again.

[terrya]

72. There's an amendment on the ballot in California.

That would deny California gay and lesbian couples the right to marry...as mandated by the California Supreme Court.

I am donating to defeat that disgusting amendment. If I was out there, I'd volunteer in person to help defeat that disgusting amendment.

I am NOT waiting until after the election for same-sex marriage.

[readmoreoften]

76. Maybe I could change my name to "I should get over it" to save the biggitz some time.

What about that spelling?

More names for us:

"FalseOutrage"
"FauxOutrage"
"CrocTeers"
"LessThanYou08"
"MyGayGermsPurelled4U"
"DemBusSpeedbump"
"UppityQueer"
"OPityQueer"
"LemmeHavvit"
"IGotCivillyUnionizedToMyCivilUnionee!"
"ILLeckshunRuiner"
"TimeToWait"
"StupidIssue"

Goin-to-the-State-Municipal-Office-&-I'm...
Gonna-Get-Civilly-Un-ion-i-iized
Goin-to-State-Municipal-Office-of-Love.."

[friedgreentomatoes]

77. i feel this way about Hope v. Fear..

..might sound stupid but here it is
for everybody else, Obama's campaign is about Hope..
...but for us , it is Fear... "vote for us or u will get McCain"
:P

[Duncan Grant]

78. Lesbian and Gay brains, genes, etc.

"What the Gay Brain Looks Like" Time magazine (two symmetrical halves of the brain theory): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3486134&mesg_id=3486134

Gay Gene/Gay Germ (Human Biodiversity Institute):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=76895&mesg_id=76895

Why Gays Don't Go Extinct (increased female fertility theory):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=78054&mesg_id=78054

I thought it might be valuable to group a few of these threads together here. If you find other threads of this type, please share them. Thanks - :hi:

edit: one more...

Gay Men, Straight Women Share Brain Detail: Report
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=77628&mesg_id=77628

[sui generis]

94. What does the effeminate male straight brain look like?

just curious.

Personally, if I want to paint my ass blue and stand on my head, there should not be a law prohibiting blue-assed people from getting married.

It's like being gay - ultimately whether by feeling gay your whole life or being gay for an hour: we exercise the choice at the point we take the action, just like painting your ass blue.

Now then, blue assed people of the world - is there a category on your driver's license indicating the hue and approximate coverage of your buttocks with this azure tint? Oh, that's a left buttocked blue assed dude.

No. Can't see the gay, can't see the lovely cornflower blue, and whether you're born with a blue ass or choose to paint it blue, it's all the same: invisible.

We might as well say what does the brain of the tattooed person look like? Why in hell should it matter?

:P

[LostinVA]

79. "Dubya is definitely gay or bi" -- posted in GLBT forum

Discuss.

[LeftCoast]

80. I just see this as yet another example of str8 folks pushing off the evils of the world on to us

Probably why I rarely post here any more...

[Creideiki]

81. But where do you go?

If I could find an alternative, I'd leave this place to the centrists.

[LeftCoast]

82. Mainly DailyKos. The discussions are far more substantive with far less homophobic BS

It's really sad because DU used to be THE place for interesting discussion. It was my first stop of the day to get news and information.

[Zuiderelle]

83. Kudos to the mods for deleting that slime.

[LeftCoast]

84. Agreed - Kudos to the mods...but what does it say about DU that this stench keeps returning?

Over and over again...

[LostinVA]

85. Unfortunately, the poster of the slime is still here

[Zuiderelle]

86. Well, yeah, there's that.

And no evidence left of the homophobia. :(

[Duncan Grant]

87. Equal time for a thread that is affirming and interesting.

Here's a great thread about a librarian's response to a book about gay marriage:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3746308&mesg_id=3746308

:thumbsup:

[LeftCoast]

88. That was nice

Thanks for pointing it out.

[LostinVA]

89. That's because librarians rock and are almost all lefties

The ones who aren't still are very supportive of free speech.

[Zuiderelle]

92. Very nice, and very subtle.

Thanks for posting it.

:thumbsup:

[jumptheshadow]

95. Quite a homophobic little thread here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6644154

One of the subthreads in response to the OP hit a new low at DU.

The equation of homosexuality to bestiality is bad enough on right-wing boards.

[jumptheshadow]

96. Subthread deleted by the mods

Thank you.

[Duncan Grant]

97. Matthew Mitcham threads (Gold Medalist, Beijing 2008):

Please share others if you find them.

The thread in GD is interesting ( re: media coverage).
GD:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3846210&mesg_id=3846210

GLBT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x81542
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=81034&mesg_id=81034

edit: added 2nd GLBT thread

[racaulk]

98. Posted without comment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7001441

[BrainStorm]

99. It says Missing Topic

What did it say?

[racaulk]

100. Yes, to the mods credit, they deleted the thread.

Thank you, mods! :)

It was another hatefest against transgendered people. The OP started with something like "Person X is awful manly, could she be transgender (sic)? I've seen less testosterone in a men's locker room." Some of the replies weren't much better. The thread then burned at about 1,000 degreees before being snuffed by the mods. Disgusting stuff.

But to be fair, the OP did apologize later downthread. I just think that, in his mind, he was just making an innocent joke and he didn't realize how offensive and inappropriate his comments were when he made his OP.

[Zuiderelle]

101. So, kick.

For posterity's sake, Lots of nice stuff in the responses to this thread from a week ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7295995

[JackBeck]

102. Marriage decision should have been timed better:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4210443&mesg_id=4210515

[terrya]

103. *sigh*. I asked a favor about the same post in GD: Presidential.

I asked...requested, pretty please....that no one post that "why couldn't they have waited until after the election" posts...just like that one.

[Duncan Grant]

104. What the...?!

Unreal. :grr:

[racaulk]

105. More "Ann Coulter and his/her Adam's Apple" inanity can be found in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7526463

GDP threads about Ann Coulter are like flypaper for the DU transphobes. :puke:

[LeftCoast]

106. Lovely group of DUers on that thread

:puke:

[Zuiderelle]

107. I wasn't sure what you were talking about until I got down towards the end

and all the Adam's apple comments. What the hell is wrong with people?

[racaulk]

108. Upon alerting, the offending posts were deleted by the mods.

Thank you! :hi:

[Jamastiene]

109. Well, one of us has managed to bust George Bush and Laura Bush up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4288150

Look at the very first reply.

[Jamastiene]

110. Thank you, Mods!

:hi: :hug: :D

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

111. "Ellen Degenerate" from a 1000+ post member

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4363940&mesg_id=4364879

[LeftCoast]

112. Post is gone

Hope we can say the same for the poster.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

113. They're still here

[LeftCoast]

114. Well, at least we got you back

You're worth at least 10 homophobes. :)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

120. Thanks!

I definitely think I'm worth at least 10 homophobes.

[Maven]

115. OMG!!!

When did you get back?!!!

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

116. Last Friday, I think

:hug::hug::hug:

How are you doing?

[Maven]

117. Great

Even better now that you're back. Sanity is being restored in so many ways...

[yardwork]

140. Hi Haruka! I'm glad that you're back.

[Clintonista2]

119. PM me with who the poster was

[racaulk]

121. "Mann Coulter" sees a return in GDP.

And when politely asked to remove the comment, the user refused and flaunted their bigotry. Good stuff. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7787227&mesg_id=7787332

[bliss_eternal]

129. It was deleted for them.

Gone now.

[racaulk]

144. Yes, but it's a shame that it HAD to be.

If you say something that references a minority group that is questionable, and someone in that group tells you that your statement is inappropriate, you should have enough sense and decency to censor yourself. To argue the point, and to try to tell you what you have a right to be offended by, is absurd and assholish. I can't imagine doing that to someone in another minority, and I just wish the DUer in question could have seen this point.

She makes a contemptuous remark like "well, YOU will know the remark was there, won't you?" and then tries to play the victim and say that *I* am not coming from a place of mutual respect. You just can't make this kind of stuff up. :crazy:

[LeftCoast]

123. Richard Simmons = Gay MLK

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4386173&mesg_id=4386258

[Chovexani]

125. I saw that shit and didn't even know what to say.

It's rare that I'm speechless, but that managed to do it.

[bliss_eternal]

130. That sounds disgusting.

It's gone now, so I missed it. Thanks to whoever alerted. :thumbsup:

[Chovexani]

124. wow they are just out of the woodwork today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4387507&mesg_id=4387766

don't you know the militant straights are working hard for "our day" and we will be full people and citizens eventually so gosh why are we so angry.

[bliss_eternal]

131. Whaaaaat....?

:wow:

[Zuiderelle]

141. My god, this shit is depressing.

[Duncan Grant]

126. I'm going to replicate a post and not share the link.

In response to my assertion that Democrats are apathetic to LGBT rights:

107. Well, who else are you going to go to?

That's the stark reality of this situation. Also, do people really think that GLBT rights will be a higher priority than energy policy and health care policy? Is there any room left in that little bubble you're living in?

:rofl:

I thought the :rofl: was a nice touch of contempt.

[Jamastiene]

127. How disgusting and juvenile.

:banghead:

[Duncan Grant]

136. See? This is how they make us "the other".

Ugly to watch, isn't it?

[bliss_eternal]

132. You're stronger than me.

No way could I laugh at something so blatantly insensitive, callous and rude.
I wouldn't blame anyone here that decided to denounce membership in the Democratic party, seeing comments like that.

Though I'm also frustrated you didn't provide a link. That poster deserves a free piece of my mind followed by a swift kick
in the ass.

[Duncan Grant]

134. That wasn't my laughter, bliss. It was the other DUer laughing at gay people.

Cold-hearted for someone to laugh at a group of people who lost rights -- again. :hi:

[bliss_eternal]

138. omg.

I'm so sorry I misunderstood. Now I'm really upset you didn't provide a link. (Yet glad, so there's no reason for the mods to shut down the thread ;))

Someone laughing about that really needed my virtual foot in their ass.
What the hell is wrong with people?

:hi::hug:

[Chovexani]

133. Wow. Just wow.

Every time I think the militant straights on here can't sink any lower, they prove me wrong.

[Duncan Grant]

135. What kind of Democrat mocks gay people on a day like today?

Is a little empathy too much to ask for? (sigh)

[Chovexani]

137. A privilege-marinated, selfish, hateful douchebag Democrat

Apparently empathy is too much to ask for, much less support.

I liked the condescending asshat in one thread who said by god everyone else had to wait for their rights and don't you know everyone is working for "your day" so omg why are you so pissy. Like someone else said in response, it was so "shut up, Mommy knows best and is doing this for your own good".

[racaulk]

143. Although you didn't share the link, I bet I know who posted this.

And he's eating a granite cookie right now. Please check his profile and tell me if I'm right. :)

If it's who I think it is, I'm glad he's gone. He had a habit of being a contemptuous jerk, and not just to GLBT DUers.

[JackBeck]

139. Yes, it's because of the "butt sex".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4402884&mesg_id=4405056

[Zuiderelle]

142. Well, that post is gone... but that OP is outrageous!

:grr:

[LeftCoast]

145. Well, well, well...look who blames the gays...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3589737&mesg_id=3589766

I just can't imagine why his kids are virulent homophobes... (sarcasm)

[Jamastiene]

146. I'm not even sure where to begin on this one.

"Was this a stolen election or did the majority vote it down and the gays can't handle it?"

and the message body starts off like this:
"I'm for the proposition, even though I'm in another state."

They also seem to think the proposition vote happened in Utah. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3589737&mesg_id=3590079

[Jamastiene]

147. Quit being so hysterical and don't dare complain about Saudi Arabian gays' pain.

Even the pain of those outside America is a double standard. You can count Sudanese pain but not Saudi Arabian pain. They are NOT equal. We CANNOT feel pain. I don't know why I bother sometimes. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4443832

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

148. Should gay couples pretend to be straight couples?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4449031

Since the thread is archived, we can discuss it now here, even if the thread about it here got locked. The fact that it wasn't locked for being homophobic flamebait is extremely telling about the acceptance of homophobia around here.

[TechBear_Seattle]

150. Did you know that "pansies" is not a bigoted epithet?

And it is my fault for finding it offensive. Gee, imagine that! :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7896991&mesg_id=7897007

[QC]

151. All "white gay folks" are just alike and think the same things!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3615967&mesg_id=3616240

Amazing what fascinating things one learns on DU these days!

[donco6]

152. Boycotting only hurts the "little" guys.

We should just try talking to people to win them over.

:sarcasm:

[yardwork]

153. "I place the blame squarely at the no on 8 campaign..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3615967&mesg_id=3616128

while what happened was a travesty, I personally am of the opinion that the "no on 8" people decided to save their vast resources for other states, and chose to remain in a false sense of security till it was too late. They had TWICE as much money as "yes on 8" people but chose to have a weak response in the battle for people's minds.

....

They just didn't educate the people enough and are now facing the fruits of their own ineptitude.

Gay people didn't educate the people enough and are now facing the fruits of our own ineptitude. It's all our fault that we allowed our rights to be taken away from us.

[Duncan Grant]

154. The backlash over prop 8 gets ugly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=452695

What did they expect? Are we supposed to form two orderly rows and politely march off into invisibility?

[racaulk]

156. Uhhh...what?

The thread you linked is one from 2007. Although I'm not sure what it was about, I'm sure it doesn't relate to Prop 8.

:P

[Duncan Grant]

158. "Twilight Zone" moment...

:silly:

[Duncan Grant]

157. Correct thread **HERE**:

Sorry folks, I don't know how I managed to mangle this! :blush:

Here's the correct thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4526958

[Zuiderelle]

161. Oh man.

:(

[yardwork]

155. I "choose to do sex with someone of the same gender."

Nice. Reduce my relationship to sex like two dogs in heat.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=188681&mesg_id=188830

[Duncan Grant]

159. Well worth the read.

Thanks for posting here! :thumbsup:

[yardwork]

162. Fortunately, the thread was locked and the perp escorted from the premises.

Another day, another gay-bashing thread.

[racaulk]

160. The Coulter haters just can't help themselves.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4531848

I won't link to the inappropriate replies, but you'll find more than one joke about Ann's "Adam's Apple" and "boyish figure."

One day, I'll learn to stop clicking on threads about her. *sigh*

[Zuiderelle]

163. if a court is gonna over turn your vote - whats the point?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3617231&mesg_id=3617469

[NMMNG]

166. Cool, does that mean they won't vote anymore

:evilgrin:

Gee, if only....


Freaking bigoted dirtbags.

[QC]

164. The Homos Now Control College Football!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4541026&mesg_id=4541026

[yardwork]

167. The OP finally admitted that he was drunk as hell when he posted that, but

what does that say about him? "I'm drunk and bored so I think I'll start a thread making fun of gay people."

wtf?

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kenny blankenship]

168. Oh did you hear that Rush Limbaugh is gay? According to DU he must be, since he's traveled to

the Dominican Republic. He just MUST be!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4610645

it couldn't possibly be for this

[JackBeck]

169. You know what's also fucked up about this?

A conservative message board said the same thing about me when I vacationed in DR last year.

Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart from us, since there are a few repeat offenders in that thread.

I'm not, of course, referring to BOSSHOG who is unabashedly an LGBT equal rights supporter.

[Zuiderelle]

170. No, actually it sounds like they are accusing him of being a pedophile.

That's a completely different thing. Being a pedophile has NOTHING to do with being gay. I'm so sick to death of the association I can hardly stand it. And here "we" are doing it too? No, they are accusing him of being a criminal, a pedophile, not a law-abiding citizen who doesn't abuse children. A pedophile, NOT a homosexual. A pedophile is a BAD thing, so accusing him of being one is saying that he's bad. That is not even close to accusing someone of being a homosexual, as if being a homosexual were a bad thing.

Sigh.

[bluedawg12]

171. Someone else just conflated those two things

on another thread over on GD.

There are two replies correcting the OP.

[QC]

172. We got a live one!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7982118

[JackBeck]

173. This one's going for a record.

[LeftCoast]

174. This one has to be up there in terms of Top 10 list of Batshit Insane Moron Posts

It's been a while since anything on DU shocked me like that.

[Moloch]

175. Wow...

that is the most homophobic post I've ever seen on DU. I wonder if that poster thinks his/her bigotry will be excused because of long-windedness.

I couldn't get past the first paragraph talking about gay people converting straights. Even the fundies don't talk about that any more.

Reporting immediately.

[GodlessBiker]

176. It sounds almost LaRouchian in its insanity.

[QC]

177. I wonder if it is some kind of performance art piece.

This person couldn't possibly be for real.

Could he?

Check out his Facebook page.

[GodlessBiker]

178. I saw that Facebook page. I was wondering if that is the same person.

[QC]

179. well, the preoccupation with homosexuality makes a lot more sense

after seeing that facebook page. That's for sure.

[GodlessBiker]

180. He seems to have an odd interest in corsets.

[QC]

181. Maybe he plays Frank N. Furter at the local late night showings of Rocky Horror.

[ropi]

182. make the visuals stop!

poor morphy...

[GodlessBiker]

184. Perhaps. A classic movie.

[QC]

185. Just remember that he is absolutely heterosexual, though.

[ropi]

183. honestly..i haven't laughed that much in a long time.

that post had my jaw dropping and then the responses kept having me tear up.

[QC]

187. I know. I kinda wish they would let him stay around, just to give us someone to play with.

[jonnyblitz]

186. he has an interesting thread in the religion/theology forum, too.

kinda loopy:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x192155

[racaulk]

188. OMG!

Sometimes I find "soft" anti-gay posts here that annoy me, but it's been a LONG time since I have read something like THAT. Holy crap!

:wow:

You know, it is impossible to build a coherent and convincing argument when the premises upon which that argument is built are flawed. That OP was just a bunch of pseudo-intellectual babble, and how the OP made such illogical leaps is beyond me. Good on the mods for locking that one. The lock message made me LOL. :)

Well, I'm off to go commit some random felony now. That OP has convinced me that jail is a GREAT place for me to be, and the prospect of going to jail is no longer is discouraging factor to prevent me from committing a crime. I'm just giddy with excitement thinking about all the action I'm gonna get! :woohoo:

[Zuiderelle]

189. Who knew? All this time, I should have been aspiring to jail.

What a sad, sad thing that I have passed my prime and totally missed out on the joys of incarceration with straight people. :cry:

[bluedawg12]

190. It looks like he vomited random words on my screen

Just got off work and logged on to find that piece of garbage,oh well, he got his lockdown and delivery.

The scientific citations were very impressive, invisible, but impressive with a tinfoil hat on. :freak:

[bluedawg12]

191. Here's the antidote to mrcrazypants - it is outstanding!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7982459&mesg_id=7982459

[racaulk]

192. Yep, yardwork knocked my socks off with that OP.

Good on her! :thumbsup:

[racaulk]

193. There was, if you can believe it, some transphobic Coulter hatred in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7982287

But when I alerted on the offending replies, the mods were quick to remove them. One step at a time, they are renewing my faith in this forum.

Thank you, mods! :hi:

[yardwork]

194. This one is really remarkable!

YES, gay people are second class citizens... however, the option for white members of the GLBT community to the stay in the closet and get treated like 1st class straight white people hasn't gone away.

Unlike the obviousness of skin color.

There is still a price you pay for coming out of the closet. Homophobia dates back thousands of years. Expecting major progress within 50 strikes me as absurd. The very fact that gay persecution is illegal and sodomy laws are being overturned, or ignored is PROGRESS.

So, of course, I'm going to get in trouble for stating the obvious.

There are certain gay rights that I have and will stick my neck out for.
- Adoption
- Equal Employment Rights
- Civil Unions, complete with health benefits, death benefits, visitation rights and tax breaks.
- Hate Crime Prosecution
- anti-discrimination laws
- repeal of don't ask/don't tell and acceptance of openly gay military personnel



But I will NOT stick my neck out for same-sex marriage. I guess that makes me homophobic.

[racaulk]

198. Is that post still around?

If so, could you post or PM me a link? Thanks! :hi:

[QC]

200. This person has posted nothing but homophobic crap since arriving here

five months ago, and yet he's still here.

[LostinVA]

201. I cannot beleive taht poster isn't TSed by now -- the subthread gets WORSE, too

[QC]

204. Some people seem to have a license to violate the forum rules.

He is apparently one such person.

[racaulk]

195. Re: Warren: "All this complaining over something private you do that no one is trying to take away."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7993656&mesg_id=7993799

Yeah, because the arguments against warren have EVERYTHING to do with gay sex.

Unreal. :eyes:

[racaulk]

196. Oh, and the saga continues!!!

"If you are gay and excerise a small degree of discretion, you can live life without prejudice. Especially if you are white."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7993656&mesg_id=7993930

Good damn grief!

[racaulk]

199. Round 3!

"Really, I have very little empathy for white gay people."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7996673&mesg_id=7996749

[LostinVA]

202. That one -- and: "Not the same level of civil rights, and you know that"

[yardwork]

197. This one is truly rich.

Critics would seem to want a pastor, of substantial stature whho supports Gay marriage,


That is a helluva a way to kill any good will and shorten any Honeymoon Obama and the nation needs to get through its many current crises,

[Zuiderelle]

203. Anti-gay bigots only object to "specific gay sexual acts" dontcha know.

Thu Dec-18-08 12:10 PM

10. I do think white gays face bigotry. But its not the kind of bigotry

that beats you down into feeling you are not equal on a *HUMAN* level.

The bigotry they see is in the form of certain objections to specific gay sexual acts. No one considers them incompetent or intellectually inferior.

Its also possible for a white gay person to be somewhat in the closet and still enjoy the full social capitail of "whiteness".

There is no escape whatsoever from skin color (or gender for that matter).

:eyes:

[yardwork]

205. Did you alert on that one? Is the poster still here on DU? If so, why?

[Zuiderelle]

206. I'm so tired of alerting.

What good does it do. Another one pops up in place of whoever gets tombstoned... and it takes FOREVER to get rid of them. And yes, he just made that post, and though I haven't checked, I pretty certain he's still here. That sort of opinion, for some incredibly odd reason, doesn't seem by itself to be enough to get one banned.

[yardwork]

207. Please send me the link in a PM. I'll alert.

[racaulk]

211. Sending you a PM now.

I have alerted, and would appreciate others doing so as well. :hi:

[QC]

208. As long as a deleted post is the only consequence of breaking the rules,

then why should anyone be expected to behave.

They need to start handing out strikes for violations here. That would make a difference. But the real sociopaths here could not care less if some of their posts are deleted.

[racaulk]

209. Exactly right.

If the mods just delete the post and don't tell the user their post has been deleted (or, more importantly, WHY it was deleted), then their behavior will not change...as evidenced by the user being discussed in this subthread.

[QC]

210. Exactly. There should at least be an automated email sent to authors of deleted posts.

That might make people think a bit when they see 15 or 20 of their posts deleted in one evening.

But then, of course, there also needs to be consequences for carrying on like a sociopath.

[yardwork]

212. There are consequences. The mods will send a warning to repeated trouble-makers.

As someone here once posted, "humping the alert key day and night around here works."

[QC]

213. Even then it's arbitrary. Some people carry on like sociopaths for years

and are still here, no matter what they do.

[yardwork]

214. I know that but it's all we've got. We don't have to post here.

I'm not sure that posting here so much is good for me or the causes in which I believe. The nasty posts upset me sometimes, and I feel like I'm fencing with trolls a lot of the time.

On the other hand, I like the supportive posts and DU often makes me laugh.

[QC]

215. I think that DU is probably not a help for the party or for the people who post here.

I have left before for months at a time and I think it might be time to do so again, as it is now abundantly clear that this is no longer a place for people who care about politics. It's nothing more than an especially shallow and hateful fansite this past year or so, populated by the mirror image of those 20 Percenters who still worship Bush as a deity.

[LostinVA]

216. Uh oh -- the Uncle Lizas are popping out now in GDP

[racaulk]

217. Hugs make everything better!

:hug:

[Maven]

218. "Saying that gays are pedophiles isn't hate speech"

Lovely.

What the fuck is wrong with this place?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8006187&mesg_id=8006187

Everybody who recommended this should be tombstoned.

[Solon]

219. I knew one would come out of the woodwork in my thread...

"Marriage" has meant for centuries a union of a man and a woman. Let's leave that word to describe that union.

ON EDIT: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8004820#8006502

Ooops, forgot the link!

[terrya]

220. This fucker should have been tombstoned a long time ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8006676&mesg_id=8006800

[QC]

221. Flameout in progress!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8011246&mesg_id=8011246

[racaulk]

222. The reply from chimpsrsmarter was CLASSIC!!!

:rofl:

[QC]

223. Yes, that's one of the all time greatest posts!

[Jamastiene]

224. Just like Santa Claus, that one got the cookie...

the Granite Cookie:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=225762

[JohnnieGordon]

225. Her tombstone was the revolving door variety, she's back, reinstated...nt

[Jamastiene]

226. DAMN!

Someone who had been posting hateful stuff against gay people all day long and then put that screed against ALL DUers up gets to stay? That's just fucked up.

[Jamastiene]

227. Sigh

Choice...lifestyle...sticking up for right wing fundies...typical shit again...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4688627&mesg_id=4688627

Very first response. Typical. The bastards are crafty. It's not like we can alert that, yet at the same time, we know it's code. We know what it really means.

[Zuiderelle]

228. That infuriates me.

I was going round and round with someone here in this forum on that subject. As if that person doesn't believe it's a choice but because OTHER people believe it is, it makes it different and we aren't really oppressed at all.

:grr:

[Jamastiene]

229. That is exactly the tactic they are using and making DU feel like

the Ex-gay movement has taken the place over. In essence, they have. The right wing trolls don't even have to bother coming here. There are people already here using their talking points for them. All they have to do is sit back, cook some :popcorn: and enjoy the show.

It's disgusting. :mad:

[terrya]

230. They don't even pretend to be subtle about it around here anymore.

[QC]

231. Racism is never acceptable, but homophobia, well, that's different.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8013658&mesg_id=8013961

No one will be surprised by the author of this post--except for those surprised that he's still here.

[racaulk]

232. How he is still here, with some of the shit he has posted, is beyond me.

Good grief...

[QC]

233. Some posters seem to have a license to do whatever they want.

Others get no slack at all.

[racaulk]

234. You know, that's very true.

Tombstoned for 2 years: Being involved in some drama in the Lounge.

Tombstoned for 5 minutes: Making a blanket condemnation in GDP that those upset about Warren are "racist scum" and secretly want Obama to fail.

Yeah, that's fair and equitable treatment. :eyes:

[QC]

235. It's hard to know what to say sometimes. n/t

[JohnnieGordon]

237. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman."

But what if I want to get married Mr. Homophobe, where does that leave me?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8004820&mesg_id=8015147

Solon told him it's against DU rules to oppose gay marriage, and linked Skinner's quote: "We expect all of our members to support equal rights for all people, regardless of sexual orientation. That includes the right to marry."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1324374

I included Skinner's quote and the link to it in my alert.

[JohnnieGordon]

238. Deleted

I didn't think they would since he wasn't very inflammatory. But saying it at all, was rubbing it in our faces. And they should be consistent about their Skinner's rule, apparently they are. I'll be keeping Skinner's quote bookmarked.

[JohnnieGordon]

239. Meat-eater feels being disliked by PETA is comparable to the bigotry gay people face

When he first brought it up I thought he was joking, then my jaw dropped when I found out it's just more of that wonderful "I have so little regard for what you've been through as a gay person, I'll compare it to stubbing my toe or whatever."

No minority group is going to get in the way of protecting his Majesty from any and all criticism.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8016546&mesg_id=8016656

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

240. A true wtf moment

I predict pizza in that one's future. Probably just wishful thinking on my part, though.

[bluedawg12]

241. That was textbook

stoooooopid :puffpiece:

[yardwork]

242. Heterosexual hatred oozes from every pore of the homosexual community here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=103634&mesg_id=103642

[yardwork]

243. It's a valid point....trying questioning any homosexual ...

Is there something wrong with posting a Yahoo news story? and yes, you did miss something. the anti-heterosexual hatred is all over DU these days. Try questioning any homosexual and the same thing will happen to you.

[Name removed]

244. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

245. I want to be a reptile.

I'm violent too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8018188&mesg_id=8018210

[QC]

247. Just read the Psalm and ignore the hateful, lunatic spew. n/t

[yardwork]

246. We're hanging on crosses surrounded by Judases

This one is really sexually messed up:

Yes, I'm a bigot because I don't think you are going to die during the inauguration.

Everyone around you is Judas. Enjoy your cross.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8018188&mesg_id=8018694

[QC]

248. I'm sure Chomsky would be very proud. n/t

[QC]

249. Wonder if this one wears a wedding band or has family pictures in the ole cublcle?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8019338&mesg_id=8019363