Bible does not denounce faithful relationships.....

[bluevoter4life]

between people who happened to be gay. This according to Church Archbishop Rowan Williams. It was a little difficult to determine where he stood on the issue, but it starts becoming clear toward the end. Its quite an interesting read.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4473814.ece

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. Based on looking at a lot of religions, the active problem is lust

that which attracts us to the material world rather than the spiritual, a very very common issue. How the idea got in there that heterosexual lust was some how holier than gay lust is the question.

[Smarmie Doofus]

2. Might have something to do with the 9 to 1 numerical advantage....

... that heterosexuals seem to enjoy cross-culturally.

>>How the idea got in there that heterosexual lust was some how holier than gay lust is the question. >>>

Show me a statistical minority that is at that kind of numerical disadvantage that is NOT discriminated against and I'll... I'll ... I'll do something out of the statistical norm!

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. It derives from a general sense of "the sole purpose of sex is procreation"

Therefore, non-procreative sex of any kind is frowned upon if not denounced. You see this attitude in Judaism, in Christianity and Islam (both influenced by Manichaeism), in Buddhism and in modern Hinduism. Heterosexual lust is seen as excusable to some extent as it has the possibility of procreation. Same-sex interations do not and therefore lack whatever marginal legitimacy is found in different-sex interactions.

[indigo32]

5. sad thing is

sex, non-procreative sex, is actually quite healthy for us when we're
taking precautions not to spread communicable disease.

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. Ah, but the perceived healthiness of sex is a trap laid down by the Evil One

Or is is an attachment to the illusions of this world. Or it distracts you from your true yearning to reunite with The One. Or it allows even more Divine Sparks to be emeshed in the wickedness and corruption of the material world.

:shrug: Hey, I didn't make the rules.

The human sex drive is very powerful. As such, it makes a very useful leash: control a person's sex drive and you control the person. That, I believe, is why so many religions are obsessed with defining allowed and prohibited forms of sex.

[napoleon_in_rags]

6. See, I don't even mind that principle, but they don't live up to it.

Living without lust is very, very hard. Most people don't, and most of those who try live in celebacy. The idea is that people are supposed to procreate without lust, which this noble sort of ascetic ideal, but its not what happens most times. People have sex with lust, strait folks have oral sex, handjobs, foreplay etc, none of which is related to procreation. The problem is that all this gets a wink and a nod, especially when its a married couple, but not with a queer couple.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. The hypocricy is not the point

People are not supposed have sex with lust, have oral sex, masturbate, etc.

But at least mixed gender couples have the potential to have children together, regardless of age, fertility or inclination. That makes a world of difference, apparently. At least, it did to the Washington Supreme Court when they ruled in 2006 that mixed gender couples were entitled marriage while same sex couples were not. (I kid you not: read the lead ruling in Andersen v. King County.)

[napoleon_in_rags]

10. You're talking law here...

...I'm more talking faith, but the real lesson here may be that the two shouldn't mix. The ruling is INSANE!

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. I'm talking faith too

faith ...

2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof

Merriam-Webster Online

That many jurists (and a lot just plain ignorant folk) confuse faith with law is not our current topic. Ignore my swipe at the Washington Court, please; that was just me not missing an opportunity.

The point I was reaching for is that different sex couples have the potential of procreating, however slight that potential might be. For a lot of people, that potential is sufficient reason to make allowances not extended to same sex couples.

[napoleon_in_rags]

12. I hear ya.

I'm saying it doesn't make sense to me.

[closeupready]

14. I'm sometimes tempted to ask these Xtian fundies, "so then is it okay if I marry your daughter?"

:rofl: Seriously, though, I wonder how they would react if they found out, post-marriage, that their new son-in-law is an "ex-gay"? I somehow doubt that would go over well with them.

Anyway, no rationalization is too silly when it comes to heteros - everything goes, and if you need a reason, they've got one; no, they've got hundreds. Just pick the one you like best, and we'll go with it. Meanwhile, no amount of data and argumentation is ever good enough to justify love between gay people. :eyes:

[napoleon_in_rags]

15. Exactly! Its a cultural thing.

They wouldn't want you marrying their daughter, good point!

[Irishonly]

4. I Was Taught

that Leviticus was more about lust and class than laws governing homosexuals. The law at the time said it wasn't proper for members of the same sex to sleep with those of the same class although it was perfectly acceptable to have relations with a teen or a member of lower class. I am probably not explaining this very good at all. I understand it when it's being explained to me. Pastors that show hatred by claiming otherwise or just showing their stupidity.
Edited because I sent before I was done

[napoleon_in_rags]

7. Dogma aside, my personal religious conviction is that its about lust.

We're called upon to stive for lives of non-attachment, whether it be to flesh or money or ego or whatever. God is not anti-queer in this regard, he doesn't differentiate between lusting for Britney Spears or Brad Pitt, its all attachment. We're supposed to all be working on experiencing pure love more and more and letting attachments fall away. If that pure love same sex, even the Bible makes clear that that's okay, as evidenced in David's relationship.

[Irishonly]

13. I Agree

I have no idea why some Christians are so worried about others lives. I guess they have forgotten love and devotion are good and condemnation is bad.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

16. My comment isn't getting posted!

Don't you hate it when you post a comment and then it never gets put on the list? Happens far too often to me.