Is America the most Mentally ill nation on Earth?

[Ripley]

Do citizens of the USA suffer more from mental illnesses than all other countries or are they just more blasted with Pharm-Ads and Pharm-marketing in the media (not just broadcast, cable, radio, but the huge magazine and music industry) that makes them think they are "suffering XYZ?"

Either way, I'm sure we are the most over-medicated and over-analyzed nation on Earth.

Wonder why? :eyes:

[Groggy]

1. Probably because the drug companies

are drug pushers!! :shrug:

[imenja]

2. no--correlation between poverty and mental illness

Mental illness is highest in the poorest nations. We in this country seek treatment and yes medication for mental illness. But we also do so for heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. All are serious illnesses and should not be trivialized.

[Warpy]

5. Artificially maintained poverty in a land of plenty

is the main thing contributing to the hopelessness I see around me, the mistrust of other people, the anxiety, and the fear.

Concentration of wealth is causing a lot of the degradation of everything around us, and inside us as well.

[imenja]

12. mental illness is not the same as social angst

it is a medical problem, that can be identified through a brain scan. Most people have very poor knowledge on the subject. I suggest you do some reading on it before you trivialize the malady. Please see my post below for sources on the correlation between mental illness and poverty.

[Warpy]

13. Gee whiz

When did I do that?

I addressed the conditions the purveyors of SSRIs are trying to convince us we need treatment for, conditions that most certainly are potentiated by the concentration of wealth creating artificial poverty in a land of plenty.

If you have a refutation, let's see it. Remember, though, that studies in poor countries where everyone is at about the same level of poverty don't count.

[imenja]

17. don't count?

In no country does everyone live at the same level. Class divisions are universal. Many studies are international.

[Dear Maggie]

62. Not true for all

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=222&topic_id=317#318

Now I would suspect the 'mental illness' from a chemical exposure would show up on a brain scan, such as Dr. Haley has found for some of the gulf war vets and now they are looking towards a neurotoxin for cause of their harm ... (I suspect 2-butoxyethanol which is on the list www.valdezlink.com/same.htm ) but which has not been studied

But that is not true for all mental ailments or mental illness as we are broadly saying here.

There is mental illness from how you are raised and treated, unrelated to chemical poisoning, and I seriously doubt that that would show up in a brain scan

[Ripley]

8. I'll take your word.

That it is higher in the poorest nations.

So that begs the question of why there are so many mental illness drugs sold in the US and why so many Americans take them.

[imenja]

15. we take more drugs in general

and obviously the drug companies have something to do with that. Our reliance on drugs is not limited to mental illness alone. What prompts people to distinguish it from other illness is prejudice and lack of information. I provide some sources in my post below for the correlation between poverty, gender, and mental illness.


In terms of treatment for depression: drugs alone are no more effective than therapy alone. Studies show a combination of cognitive behavioral therapy (not psychotherapy) and medication
is the best treatment for major depression. Medication is far from a quick fix. It often takes years to determine the best pharmacological course of treatment. Medication is inappropriate in minor cases of depression, but doctors, particularly general practitioners under-qualified to determine such treatments, over-prescribe. I also think the schism between psychiatry and therapy plays a role. Most psychiatrists today simply distribute medication, though they will also recommend therapy and some maintain therapists on their staff.
Our medical system favors pharmacological treatments over therapy because they are cheaper. That is a failing in our medical system,
of which--I'm sure you are aware--there are many.

Other illness, such as bi-polar depression and schizophrenia, respond remarkably to medication. Many patients could not survive outside of institutionalization without pharmacological treatment. It is important to realize these are very serious illnesses.

[u4ic]

43. I *think* what some are trying to get at

is true depression, whether it be biological or situational, vs normal processes, like grief (death, divorce, other loss)or the normal frustrations or processes of life, and how they are becoming, medically, one and the same.

My father and sister both suffer from depression, so I do not take the condition lightly (and my niece is bi-polar, though she gets it from my brother in law's side). However, I have also known several people who have went to their doctor for a counselling referral for grief, and have come out with a prescription. (the grief was normal, and none of the people in question were a danger to themselves or anyone else)

I, personally, have also had my encounters with doctors who were willing to treat anything out of the 'norm' as depression. I kept on going to the doctor with certain symptoms and he kept insisting it was depression, would give me meds, etc. I kept telling him it wasn't, and eventually I gave in. I started to believe it, too, for awhile...then I collapsed, physically - and through finally finding a doctor who would listen, found out it was a chronic physical condition. Meanwhile, if the original doctor's mindset hadn't been depression, I could have had treatment that could have prevented a severe 2nd physical collapse that has left me housebound for the past 4 years. (I should point out that many of my symptoms were not that of depression, but since I was a young woman, and blood tests were normal...well, it must be psychological).

[imenja]

48. I see your point

Grief and temporary emotional suffering are part of being alive. They aren't the same as mental illness and should not be treated as such. I do think some posters here aren't aware of the difference and how serious of the problem of mental illness is.

[Verve]

3. Good point! There's also a lot of gross feminine hygiene commercials.

So what are these companies implying about women?

[Meowser]

4. Americans like a quick fix, and are not particularly reflective

but I also think there is a form of mental illness that's become pronounced in the past decade. It has been mainstreamed by the right-wing media, and is now perfectly acceptable behaviour. It is characterized by entitlement, nastiness, and lying. It is now concidered normal behaviour. Now I know how the Good Germans felt when they were surrounded by such expressions of hate.

[Ripley]

6. Yes, we do like the quickest, cheapest fix.

Acceptable behavior, i.e. hypocritical thoughts has become a plague in my vicinity. Reflection? You must be joking.

[imenja]

19. being an asshole like BO'Reilly isn't the same as a medical illness

the amount of prejudice and disinformation on this subject is astounding. Are you similarly critical of people who receive treatment for cancer or AIDS?
I'm wondering where or what this quick fix is? Please let me know so I can have it.

[Meowser]

26. How did you assemble your diatribe from my post?

I'm curious if there was a reading comprehension issue. I never expressed prejudice or disinformation on the subject. Kind of funny that you would get all this information from a very simple post. Translation:

Americans like a quick fix, and are not particularly reflective

Well, duh, we're the instant gratification society. Instead of going to therapy where people can get to the root of their anxiety, mental illness, etc., they opt to take medicine, or an irresponsible psychiatrist gives them drugs they don't need. Drugs are needed in some cases, but there is definitely over-prescribing going on.

I never equated Bill O'Reilly's assholeness with mental illness. Though there IS a mass psychosis going on right now similar to Nazi Germany. Have you ever read about the effects of mass propagandization in a fascist society?

[imenja]

30. your post

Your post: "but I also think there is a form of mental illness that's become pronounced in the past decade. It has been mainstreamed by the right-wing media, and is now perfectly acceptable behavior. It is characterized by entitlement, nastiness, and lying. It is now considered normal behavior. Now I know how the Good Germans felt when they were surrounded by such expressions of hate."

Here you equate mental illness with the right-wing media, entitlement, and lying. I naturally thought of Bill O'Reilly. You evidently meant something else, but your post connects "nastiness and lying" with mental illness. Sociological pathology (eg. your example of Nazi Germany) is not the same as mental illness. Mental illnesses are physical ailments like any other. You associate treatment for mental illness with a "quick fix." Now I agree that many Americans want a quick fix, but anti-depressants and other medications that treat mental illness don't offer that. They simply don't work that way. For that, people turn to booze, heroin, cocaine, shopping, and for some even sex. There is much misdiagnosis in mental illness, particularly when people rely on general practitioners for psychiatric treatment. None of the treatments, however, constitute a "quick fix." Anti-depressants works slowly and only on those with an imbalance in one or more neurotransmitter treated by the particular medication in question. Some work on seratonin, others on neuropenephrin or dopamine. These are all neurotransmitters that occur naturally in the brain, but in the case of people with depression or other mental illness, there is a misfiring of the receptors. Unfortunately, it can take years to find the right pharmacological regimen. There is nothing quick about it. The available treatments are haphazard, even primitive, but in the meantime that--in conjunction with cognitive behavioral therapy--is all that is available.

Studies show that the most effective treatments for major depression involve a combination of cognitive behavioral therapy (not psychoanalysis, which often worsens depression) and medication. Therapy alone is shown to be as effective as medication alone. The best possibilities for improvement come from a combination of the two. (Of course, getting insurance companies to pay for therapy can be very difficult. One of the reasons medication is so frequently prescribed above therapy is because it is cheaper for the insurance companies and will generally refuse to pay for more than a couple visits to a therapist.) For some, there is no psychological root to their illness. This is true for some with major depression but far more with bi-polar depression or schizophrenia. No amount of therapy will cure those diseases, anymore than sitting around talking about a brain tumor will get rid of that.


I understand that you didn't mean ill by your post, but it reflects the kind of misunderstanding of mental illness that pervades our society and results in a great deal of prejudice against those plagued by such diseases.

[Ripley]

37. How is a question about it...a misunderstanding about it?

Lots of drugs for "whatever term you want to use for mental" are prescribed and taken by Americans. Fact.

Frankly, I'm tired of being around drug addicts galore in America...

[imenja]

39. drugs are widespread but not just for mental illness

You imagine a distinction between biological and mental illness, as though the latter are simply psychological. Why is someone being treated for mental illness a drug addict. Is a person taking an AIDs cocktail or cancer drugs also a drug addict? Therein lies your misunderstanding. You speak disparagingly (drug addicts) about those seeking medical treatment for mental illness. All of these diseases are life threatening. For many, the medications allow them to survive, to avoid institutionalization or simply to live.
Medication is widespread and often over-prescribed. That goes for Celebrex, Vioxx, Viagra, as well as anti-depressants. The fact is, when anti-depressants are mis-subscribed, they simply don't work. All people feel are the side effects, which are far from pleasant. Apparently anti-psychotic drugs have horrendous side effects, which is why people who need them badly (bi-polar depressives and schizophrenics) will refuse to take them and endanger, and even lose, their lives. It's clear you just don't understand mental illness. That you have no personal experiences with such maladies is something for which you should be grateful.

[Ripley]

40. Why are you distorting my intent?

My post is about the number of mental illnesses in USA compared with the rest of the world. Not recreational drugs. Not human biological illness. Not how great drugs work for those who suffer. And you know it.

Maybe you are missing my point. I am not criticizing people with mental illness, I am criticizing the society that has the most in it, especially the society that seems to hook people on meds as the BEST treatment. The FIRST treatment. The MOST EXPENSIVE treatment.

And once again...why are there so many people with mental illness in our country?

[imenja]

42. Expense, assumptions

Actually it's not the most expensive treatment, which is why insurance companies favor medication over therapy or a combination of the two. I guess I don't understand your reference to drug addicts in the context of medical illness if you aren't revealing a double standard. Pharmaceutical companies profit greatly from all kinds of drugs, yet you have chosen to focus on mental illness rather than cancer, AIDS, heart disease, or another illness. Mental illness is a biological illness. Scientific advances in the last decade have established that to a medical certainty. I take your word that you don't intend any prejudice, but it is nonetheless present. Your use of the term "drug addicts" was quite clear. You might have raised this point in a discussion about cancer, but did not. I really don't think I am distorting your views. I am trying to point out what I see are assumptions underlying your argument.

Also, as the sources I attached below indicate, Americans do not suffer the greatest levels of mental illness. We do, however, take more drugs than any nation on the planet. My point was that those drugs are varied in the illnesses they treat.

I wish to point out that I mean no hostility by confronting you here. My desire is that people learn about the true nature of medical illness so that the stigma might be lessened.

[imenja]

44. The Infinite Mind

There is a radio series that explores various aspects of the mind and mental illnesses. It is called "The Infinite Mind." I am including a URL where you can listen to audio files.

http://www.lcmedia.com/mindprgm.htm

Recent broadcasts have been on: Schizoaffective Disorder; Depression and the Brain; and more general topics like peace and laughter. Contributers are physicians, therapists, artists, writers, among others. It's an informative program.

[slay]

7. Yes. (Money can't buy sanity)

And we have the biggest guns. We are the bullies of the world. As a nation, we have decided to worship at the alter of money. Do we now base a person's value on the amount of money they have? It seems more and more every day that we do, which is truly sick. We can't even seem to agree that hate, war, intolerance, and greed are bad. At least we have a name for people who like stuff like that - Republicans.

[oasis]

9. At least 50 million stupid fucks who voted for Chimpy need a lobotomy.

:dunce:

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Most shallow, hypocritical, tv-watching, purticanical, consumer-oriented

That about explains it. Bottom line is all that counts.
Was the corporation given "personhood" in this country first?

[imenja]

11. sources on correlation between poverty and mental illness

While one might initially think that attention to mental illness might be the product of an affluent, egocentric society like the US, international surveys do not bear that out. Third world countries have higher rates of mental illness, though most go untreated. Imagine the kind of psychological effect of surviving the Rwanda genocide or violence in Darfur?

Here are a few sources that provide some evidence about mental illness around the world and the correlation between poverty, gender, and mental illness.

"Nearly 30% of all suicides worldwide occur in India and China."
http://suicideandmentalhealthassociationinternational.org/


Women suffer significantly higher rates of mental illness than men, in large part due to their higher incidence of poverty and violence inflicted on them
www.who.int/mental_health/media/en/242.pdf
http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/53/5/565

http://www.who.int/inf-pr-1999/en/pr99-67.html



"A. United States and Worldwide

In the United States, researchers estimate that about 24 percent of people 18 or older, or about 44 million adults, experience a mental illness or substance-related disorder during the course of any given year. The most common of these disorders are depression, alcohol dependence (see alcoholism), and various phobias (irrational fears of things or situations). An estimated 2.6 percent of adults in the United States, or about 4.8 million people, suffer from a severe and persistent mental illness—such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or a severe form of depression or panic disorder—in any given year. An additional 2.8 percent of adults, or about 5.2 million people, experience a mental illness that seriously interferes with one or more aspects of their daily life, such as their ability to work or relate to other people. All of these figures exclude people who are homeless and those living in prisons, nursing homes, or other institutions—populations that have high rates of mental illness.

International surveys have demonstrated that from 30 to 40 percent of people in a given population experience a mental illness during their lives. These surveys also reveal that anxiety disorders are usually even more common than depression."

http://encarta.msn.com/text_761566888__1/Mental_Illness.html

[Ripley]

14. Thank you for your links...but....

These are mostly trauma induced mental illnesses right?

Pre-9/11 - lots of Americans were on anti-depressants. Why?

[Verve]

16. Because the pills were there!

Really, Americans have too much time on their hands and many don't feel they know their purpose in life. It causes alot of angst!

[imenja]

18. does that explain medication for asthma, heart disease and cancer?

What is the difference? All are biological illnesses.

[Verve]

22. Yes all are biological illnesses despite the stigma of mental illnesses

being thought of as not. Mental Illnesses are biological in nature. But, with that said, their is a mind body connection with almost all illnesses including mental illness. That's why the biological aspect gets confused when talking about mild forms of mental illness. You don't necessarily have to take medication if you're mildly or even moderately depressed. Exercise, exposure to morning sun, certain vitamins, psychotherapy, healthy eating, and support from friends and family all have scientific studies backing them showing that they all can decrease depression. These activities all increase certain receptors in the brain that are causing depression.

The problem with the American mentality is that we want a quick fix. It's easier to pop a pill a few times a day than to seek therapy, exercise regularly and find social support among friends and family.

Another point. Americans do not have the extended families today that many countries still practice. Americans don't necessarily live by grandparents, siblings, parents etc, like we did 100 years ago. Many Americans don't have that social network that was intertwined with small communities and families generations ago. These support networks likely did wonders for decreasing some forms of mental illness.

[imenja]

29. ok

I agree with much of that, though medication isn't a quick fix. I don't think many people who suffer from severe mental illness think it is. Anti-depressants aren't happy pills, and they aren't narcotics. They don't even work if a person doesn't have an imbalance in a neurotransmitter. Even then, finding the right pharmacological regimen can take years. Apparently great progresses have been made in recent years in research into mental illness, through use of brain scans and other technologies, but most of those advances have not yet filtered down to the treatment level. When they do, I expect far fewer people will be on medication and those who are will be prescribed an appropriate medication more quickly.
I myself am curious about a connection between sugar and depression. I don't know if any research has been done on that subject.

[Verve]

31. Yes, psycho-pharmacology isn't a quick fix. Often psych meds take weeks of

consistent daily dosages before effects are felt. Being consistent is not easy when an individual is depressed so results are often mixed. Also, you're right, many varieties and dosages of drugs are tried before finding the right remedy. This can take weeks, months even years.

I disagree with you ,however, that far fewer people will be on medication in the future. The drug companies are too powerful and will fight like the tobacco industry has to keep themselves afloat if they are challenged.

Interesting thought about a sugar connection. I haven't kept up on the current research in the area but that would be interesting to see if they are finding connections. My thoughts on the matter would be that sugar gives you a surge in energy due to a rise in glucose levels ( and thus temporarily increases your mood). However, your blood sugar will then quickly drop below the level before you ate sugar and therefore so does your mood. Thus, you can crave sugar for the temporary increase in energy and mood it gives you. But it becomes a vicious cycle.

I can recall one study that found children or college students(?) performed better on a morning test if they ate a sugar cereal beforehand. However, in no way would I advocate eating lots of sugar. I think they are finding that sugar actually does great damage to your cells over time. (I can't remember the specifics.)

[Dear Maggie]

58. Chemical companies are too powerful?

RE: your comment, "I disagree with you ,however, that far fewer people will be on medication in the future. The drug companies are too powerful and will fight like the tobacco industry has to keep themselves afloat if they are challenged."

Besides the medication drugs, there are other chemicals that affect people's health like the 2-butoxyethanol or n-butyl ethers. The chemical industry makes a lot of money on them and I think that the chemcial industry www.valdezlink.com/chemical_industry.htm is more powerful than the President, for instance, but not more powerful than the people of the United States of America.

When our people realize how much the 2-butoxyethanol has harmed them and their loved ones, they will arise with a vengence. And the chemical companies will have to take a back seat. Congress can ban them. That's what I think

& why I think so: If CFS, CFIDS, 'gulf war syndrome' were caused from tihs chemical, would people make a scene? http://home.gci.net/~blessing/pages/outline.htm

[oscar111]

20. Imenja bad statistics: how to end poverty: RW denies any mental illness

Hi,
many thanks for your links, and hi quality posts.
but i must quibble with the link on sui.

I and Ch have over two billion of six globally.. one third.. so their sui's are normal rate. Surprised the source did not give RATE, just the inferior stat of volume.

I agree with your point... poverty causes mental illness.

Poverty due to the Job Shortage here.. of 14 million.

www.bls.gov/jlt

has the stats on mere three million jobs for seventeen million discouraged and active jobless.

that is how poverty is

ARTIFICIALLY MAINTAINED

tho US wealth is 1O5 Trillion

www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/accessible/l5.htm {that's L5 table} see bottom line

I suspect s and m.. sadomasochism is the basis of GOP thinking.

Sweden had under one percent jobless for decades, till the RW lied its way to power.

Clinton s of labor, reich, advises

www.njfac.org

More jobs than workers, via share the work, WPA, co ops.

WPA doesnt cost a penny.. harness output of those now idle.

Sad to say, to save on paying taxes, some of the RW denies the existence of any mental maladies. I actually heard such on Hate Radio. ... the black host that is prominent.. forget his name. Not Keyes. They claim it is all faked to get money.

Imenja, hope i didnt sound too critical. Like your quality posts, please post more!

Heard great retort to the RW:
"Why should the brain be the only organ that cannot get an organic disorder?"

[imenja]

55. sui?

Do you mean suicide? I've read a lot on mental illness over the years, but for the purposes of these posts, I quickly searched the web to find some things. It's entirely possible that some of those stats are bad. I am, however, confident in my general knowledge of the subject and the overall posts I've made.
I agree that there is a clear corollary between poverty and mental illness, but not an absolute, singular cause. I expect you don't mean to imply that is the case.
I'm not surprised RW radio promotes hatred toward the mentally ill, since they do toward so many others. It bothers me, however, that so many here on DU continue to maintain old prejudices about these diseases and don't acknowledge their mistaken assumptions when confronted. Minds change slowly, I guess.

[imenja]

50. remember there are all kinds of trauma

Many people who suffer from mental illness have suffered trauma. Genocide is certainly the most appalling sort of traumatic injury, but there are all kinds of abuse you don't see: children beaten, locked in closets, left alone at young ages, ignored, raped, and subjected to other forms of sexual abuse. The rates of such abuses are high in our society and no doubt influence the level of mental illness. Sustained exposure to abuse changes how the brain operates, and untreated depression actually shrinks brain cells.
Of course, there is also a genetic connection. Bi-polar depression has a high incidence of heredity. Other mental illnesses also have genetic components. Scientists are just beginning to identify some of these. Then there are some people, like Mike Wallace, who underwent temporary changes in their brain chemistry--a one time bought with major depression--that was corrected with anti-depressants and has never returned. The longer a sufferer of depression goes without treatment, the more difficult their disease is to treat. All this is established through extensive medical research.
The Carter Center carries out (I believe) the largest international program to combat mental illness. Rosalind Carter is a long time advocate of a more responsible and just public policy toward these diseases. Their website contains some information on the subject.
http://www.cartercenter.org/healthprograms/showdoc.asp?programID=6&submenu=healthprograms

[kineneb]

53. and depression is real

I am one of the "medicated." After suffering for many years with recurrent bouts of depression and having permanent memory damage because of it, I finally found the right doctor and the medicine to make me functional. I have had years of therapy and monitoring of the meds so I know what I need. Without it I would be non-functional or dead, since I tend to be suicidal when depressed. Depression is something I would not wish on anyone; it is painfull and debilitating. And I know that I have to constantly watch for its return- without proper nutrition, rest and medicine, I could become a statistic.

Mental illness is exactly that- an illness of the mind. It is just as biological as diabetes. Do not deny us our medications, they keep us well enough to be productive members of society.

[imenja]

54. that's precisely what I've been trying to communicate here

but people seem remarkably resistant. No one here acknowledges they may be mistaken in their assumptions about mental illness. We are "drug addicts" because we want to be well. As a suffer myself, I find it very disturbing.
I'm so glad you've finally gotten some effective treatment. After years, I also just found a medication that works for me. It makes a huge difference.
Be well.

[Al-CIAda]

21. THE MADNESS OF GEORGE W. BUSH:A REFLECTION OF OUR COLLECTIVE PSYCHOSIS

THE MADNESS OF GEORGE W. BUSH:

A REFLECTION OF OUR COLLECTIVE PSYCHOSIS

by Paul Levy


<snip>
The truth now needs to be uttered. George W. Bush is ill. He has a psycho-spiritual dis-ease of the soul, a sickness that is endemic to our culture and symptomatic of the times we live in. It’s an illness that has been with us since time immemorial. Because it’s an illness that's in the soul of all of humanity, it pervades the field and is in all of us in potential at any moment, which makes it especially hard to diagnose. Bush's malady is quite different from schizophrenia, for example, in which all the different parts of the personality are fragmented and not connected to each other, resulting in a state of internal chaos. As compared to the dis-order of the schizophrenic, Bush can sound quite coherent and can appear like such a "regular," normal guy, which makes the syndrome he is suffering from very hard to recognize. This is because the healthy parts of his personality have been co-opted by the pathological aspect, which drafts them into its service. Because of the way the personality self-organizes an outer display of coherence around a pathogenic core, I would like to name Bush's illness "malignant egophrenic (as compared to schizophrenic) disorder," or "ME disorder," for short. If ME disorder goes unrecognized and is not contained, it can be very destructive, particularly if the person is in a position of power.


http://www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html

[signmike]

23. Are you saying that just because we have 4% of

the world's population and 120 times the murder rate of the entire rest of the world combined there's something wrong with us wrong with us wrong with us?
:shrug:

[Lefty48197]

24. Nope. Dumbfuckistan is.

.

[forgethell]

25. Do you have any

statistics or studies showing that, or are you still upset about the election?? Being conservative is not the same as being mentally ill, anymore than being liberal is.

[Meowser]

27. conservatism is set of neuroses rooted in "fear and aggression, dogmatism

and the intolerance of ambiguity".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1017546,00.html

Lack of empathy should be included in that list.

[forgethell]

45. Yeah, I read that study.

Bullshit. isn't that the study that included Hitler and Stalin among the "conservatives"? How much more radical can you get than those two? Further, conservatives are as capable of complex and ambigous thought as are liberals. And they seem to be somewhat more capable of linear thought, although certainly they don't have a monopoly on it.

The study set up straw men and duly knocked them down. But that doesn't make it valid. Progressives can also be very aggressive. tht's how we originally came to power in the New Deal. Not by sitting on our asses.

On edit: As long as we don't realize that conservatives are every bit as educated, informed, intelligent, and concerned as we liberals are, we will continue to lose to them electorallly. the difference between us is our contrasting views of human nature. The only way to determine which side has the correct, or at least, more correct view, is to observe which ones policy prescriptions seem to work. In the end, that side will soon be winning elections. but only if they put the facts before the American voter.

We should abandon positions that the American public does not want (we can educate them later), and push the ones that are proven winners.

[Andromeda]

28. There are some statistics that say

that one in four people in this country will end up being treated for mental illness.

If four of your friends are all right -- then it's you. :crazy:

[Ripley]

32. Yikes!

:crazy:

[Taxloss]

36. If three of your friends are alright ... n/t

[HEyHEY]

33. No, look at how fucking nuts some places are

[Ripley]

38. Who are you referring to, my Canadian friend?

?????????????????????????????????

[Shutterbug]

34. Actually...... There is a piece missing.

Mental illness is not a fabrication of Pfizer. It is a reality. If you don't believe me, call or email Yale New Haven.

Think back to the Great Depression. Addiction, Physical abuse, Sexual abuse, and even physical abuse were social mores. Imagine if children of that generation, met and multiplied. Then imagine if those children met an multiplied. It is true, I believe, that you pick your mate that is closest to your family. Imagine if your family was as I described above and imagine what that outcome could deliver.

Family disfunction carries itself over generations. That is a fact. Our only hope is to grow with knowldge and prosper therein.

[Porcupine]

35. Worse!! We are biologically nonviable.

If you described any grouping of mammals in the wild that had:

1.A 35% obesity rate or greater.
2. At least 10% morbid obesity.
3. Declining sperm counts and fertility rates among the native born population.
4. Failing rates of resistance to TB and Malaria.
5. A population that requres massive infusions of medicine to function on a daily basis.
6. Dependent upon a stream of food (imports) that they cannot travel to and do not control.
7. Experiencing declining soil fertility on their major foodbearing lands.
8. Declining or failed fisheries.
10. Rising rates of irrational, non-productive or suicidal behavior.

You would describe a process of local extinction.

We are a nation of Lemmings. (metaphorical lemmings, biological ones do not charge cliffs). All the data we have tells us that we are driving ourselves towards a massive die-off. Yet we are led by somebody who tells us to have FAITH that the crops we did not plant will somehow feed us.

[leesa]

41. By Far. Too fat and bloated on wealth and ease.

[txaslftist]

46. I can't keep up with all these posts...I need my ritalin.

[imenja]

49. why, do you need sedating?

that's the effect of Ritalin on adults.

[nascarblue]

47. YES It's obvious

No wonder the London Globe had that headline.

[Dear Maggie]

51. Indirectly - they know what ails us

If you listen to the ailments that they say we need help with ... you will realize that they know a lot of people have CFS, CFIDS or 'gulf war syndrome'

and excuse me,

a little tablet isn't going to fix it

But at least the drug companies know what we're trying to fix and hope to earn money off of it

Depression?
Sleeplessness?
Difficulty Concentrating
FATIGUE
lots and lots of things that are a part of 2-butoxyethanol poisoining.


We need a CURE for the fatigue, the red blood cell damage
http://home.gci.net/~blessing/pages/canine.htm

We need doctors to recognize the 'pattern' of this chemical's harm
http://home.gci.net/~blessing/pages/cfs_overview.htm

Americans may be over-analyzed but we are also overpoisoned with a common cleaning/degeaser chemical: civilians and soldiers, alike

[HuckleB]

52. Not the most over-analyzed, that's for sure.

Every been to Buenos Aires? There are more analysts per capita than anywhere on the planet. It's amazing.

[Dear Maggie]

56. How about Brazil?

I heard from a military dad who lost his teen daughter to a rare disease ... that it was very common in Brazil.

It was something to do with cortical adrenal hormone being 'out of whack' Too much hormone? Anyway the girl went from a size 3 to a size 22 - gained weight and had onset of acne.

The family was desperate to save their daughter ... but no.

I will ask them more about it, as it reminds me of the kind of thing that 2-butoxyethanol would do ... which would be a blight on other nations, too

(I suspect it in jet fuel, in lots of cleaners, in industrial manufacturing. I suspect it causing damage to testes www.valdezlink.com/sperm_count.htm)

[HuckleB]

57. Huh?

[undergroundpanther]

59. Nami mammies

Lost in parental angst,don't weanna e guilty..But child mistreatment,and the fact kids have very little rights, to stand against parental control games and indoctrination hurts society.
http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/05_history.html


Tend to overlook there is NO physical correlation to depression in the brain.It has not been proven
Ever wonder why Zoloft stopped showing thier little nerve diagrams in thier commercials? Because it's a fraudulent claim.
See this debate:
http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/pfizerlies.shtml#intro

Psychology has a history,one of supressing deviants
It is social control.Social control for keeping the bullies on top of our sick human cultures.

http://www.hri.ca/doccentre/docs/gosden.shtml
Normal...is a MYTH!

[HuckleB]

60. Huh?

:shrug:

[Dear Maggie]

61. I catch your drift

www.valdezlink.com/eyes.htm#robin

Robin who worked to help the seals during the Exxon Valdez oil spill cleanup had central nervous system damage ... and part of that chemical exposure (to 2-butoxyethanol) can be CNS depression

It's on the list of harm
http://home.gci.net/~blessing/pages/cfs_overview.htm

People will notice other CNS damage, like memory loss
Sad story

Why I learned about it
http://home.gci.net/~blessing/pages/who.htm

[undergroundpanther]

63. Mental illness

Is not jusat the victims problem
The way we live,the stress of life in this society,never knowing if you can afford rent,heat or healthcare causes stress.Tremendous stress.Some people can't handle that level of stress.
Child abuse is rampant in America that parental stupidity can affect a person forever.Abuse messes up the way people handle stress in a primal way.
Our culture's profit driven system is hellbent on manufacturing of wants,Our profit driven system puts money over people and turnns people into objects,rthat creates insecurity and fear ,low self esteem and the kind of sick materialism that a society of haves VS have nots creates just to prop up haves.This cocercive dynamic causes a tension and it's profitable stress for a few in our society who profit off the sufferings of many. Our society is sick because so many of the individuals that make a society in the image of thier "normalicy"are really sickand don't understand what it is that makes them unhappy(beliefs).A society is as healthy as it can allow itself to be and certain beliefs are totally disconnected from reality..And as long as we let sociopaths and the pathologically competitive and greedy run our societies we will be sick in all our relations..

The pollution infesting everything around us can cause illness and stress.
Allergies can cause symptoms that look like mental illness.
I reacted myself with a feeling of suicidalness to elm trees and rage top roach poop. I discovered this when I went for allergy tests.This suprized me,to witness the severity of these emotional reactions in myself I had to allergens..It sure freaked out my partner too.
There are countless chemicals we are exposed to everyday some of them are toxic and allergic things and they DO affect us, our bodies our,minds even altering our DNA.There are also infections that can make you suffer in ways that facilitate mental illness.

Also take the effects of mass trauma from war,rape abuse,in homes schools,churches, military ect.It adds up.Trauma does alot to keep people controlled and insecure so they don't ask questions or bite the masters hands when they project upon leaders as if they are protective father figures,which in reality they are not..
Mental illness is a complicated thing, it's not just the sick person's issue alone. It's the sick environment we all live in, social and otherwise making sickness.

[Dear Maggie]

64. Many truths you touch upon

As to the haves and have nots that is true in most all societies. In ours, there are more haves than 'have nots' (depending upon your definition, that is) and the opportunity is there for everyone to succeed and cross over boundaries that in other nations would be unthinkable.

You state, "The pollution infesting everything around us can cause illness and stress. Allergies can cause symptoms that look like mental illness. I reacted myself with a feeling of suicidalness to elm trees and rage top roach poop. I discovered this when I went for allergy tests. Chemicals we are exposed to everyday some of them are toxic and allergic things and they DO affect us, our bodies our,minds even altering our DNA. There are also infections that can make you suffer in ways that facilitate mental illness."

Now, I suspect that many 'alergies' are actually our body complaining about too much of some kind of chemical. The one that mimics mental illness is very common and it can prevent parents nurturing each other and their children to the point you mention: 2-butoxyethanol or ethylene glycol monobutyl ether As far as I can tell, it is the most probable cause of 'gulf war syndrome' & in civilian terms this past half century, it would be called CFS or more accurately, Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfuction Syndrome.

You can be exposed to it in paint, oven cleaner, household cleaners like Simple Green, Lysol Tub 'n Tile, 409 Cleaner for starters. Check it out for yourself. What do you use that is 5% or more of this chemical? http://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/ingredients.htm Put in CAS no 111-76-2 and then see what you use that is 2% or more of the complex version: put in 112-34-5

This chemical is in gun cleaner, I suspect, maybe in jet fuel. It can damage the central nervous system and cause a lot of violence that people cannot control. I suspect some of these are in our prisons. I suspect it causes a lot of break up of marriages, etc, etc.

Do you also have fatigue with your allergies? How do you feel? Any of these ailments?

With this chemical's harm you can't just go to the doctor and have it found out. The gulf war vets and other groups I mention can tell you that. Oh, lots of side effects can be diagnosed, but the fatigue is red blood cell damage and it doesn't show up as doctors expect it to BECAUSE the red blood cells are immature and dying off prematurely. So another clue of this chemical's harm is blood in urine.

Why I started looking into this