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Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Democrats » Elizabeth Edwards Supporters Group Donate to DU
 
balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:58 AM
Original message
Hey there all you Edwards people!
Andrea and saracat surprised me with a star! What a generous thing, and unexpected. I had emailed them asking for help with a poll idea, which I couldn't post because I was not a donor, and they both were kind to give me one. Today is my birthday, so I will consider it a birthday present ;-)

I wish I were joining our little group with John still in the running. My heart hurts because of all this. The stupidity of this country, and the evil workings of the corporate-owned government are just incredible! I will continue to join you all in the threads and attempt to help educate, but it is a tiresome thing. I don't know how much I can stand talking to such a thick wall of stupidity. Talk about lemmings!

I truly am one of the "working poor". I can honestly say that part of what got me here were stupid choices and years of addictive behavior and depression. But now I am better and find myself a white, middle-aged, single father barely keeping our heads above water in this decaying society. I am in a trade for rent situation which helps with the "roof" part.

Anyway, it's good to be here and I will enjoy participating with you all. Thanks again Andrea and saracat, you're the best!

P.S. The poll idea would be a question for O. and C. supporters asking how they feel about the SUDDEN romancing between the two candidates.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. The poll is up in GDP.
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 01:01 PM by balantz
Interesting to watch the C. and O. supporters thoughts feelings on a combined ticket.

If you guys wouldn't mind kicking it I'd like to see where they are with the idea of an O. and C. ticket, and perhaps they will begin to open a dialogue on the sudden strangeness of the love-fest.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Welcome to the group!!!
This is the best bunch of people I think I have ever encountered in cyber space.

Pleased to have you on board!
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks Yael!
Edwards people are the best!
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. fantastic
Glad you to a star and good to see you here. Some anonymous Edwards supporter was generous enough to donate on my behalf when I straggled in here broke and homeless.

"...how they feel about the SUDDEN romancing between the two candidates."

Very perceptive. IMHO it was an obviously orchestrated dog and pony show for the purpose of crushing the growing insurgency within the party that Edwards was instigating. It succeeded in herding all of the people back into the fold and silencing criticism of the party, with just a few brave exceptions here in the Edwards forum. The lie is that this was done to provide a united front to the Republicans. The truth is that this "unity" meant that we critics and insurgents had better STFU. It is a fake unity - not a true coming together on principles and ideals, but rather the illusion of unity, a homogenized and sterilized conformity achieved by suppressing the critics. The party leadership does not want the public to know that there is a battle going on for the heart and soul of the party, because they know that the general public would side with us by the millions and millions. This suppression was not done so we can fight the Republicans better, it was done to protect the positions and power of those in the leadership. It may well come at the price of losing to the Republicans, but retaining their own power in the party is more important to the leadership than beating the Republicans is.
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iris5426 Donating Member (697 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. And dammit does that scare the hell out of me.
To be one of the ones that sees it, and therefore :tinfoilhat: to everyone around you really sucks. I am pretty sure most of my friends now think I'm crazy because I've told them I think John was forced out. The really scary questions are what will it take for them to see the truth of what's happening here? Will it reach a point where we lose our freedoms and can't even gather to voice our opinions in places like DU?

Ugh. So disheartening.

Sorry to be so glum, welcome balantz! :hi:
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. re-posting
I will copy and paste some things here from other threads on this subject that may be useful to others.

To think that there are no back room deals, no coercion, no threats, no power plays in politics is akin to thinking there is no physical contact in ice hockey. Back room deals, coercion, threats, and power plays are what politics is. They are practically the only thing that goes on.

There are hundreds and hundreds of insider historical accounts about the way politics works, and has worked in every campaign and every White House and every Congress. There is no excuse for people to have this fantasy world gentrified and sanitized view of politics. The opposition plays in the real world of politics, and they will tear us up if we keep avoiding reality and living in some imaginary world of hope and feelings. We look ridiculous and absurd, and we are.

I find the naiveté and denial on this thread - the complete embrace of the PR the politicians put out, the abject surrender to the emotional appeals of the staged media events - to be very alarming.


I think that we need to face reality and understand what politics is. Threats, horse trading, coercion, pressure, back-stabbing, back room deals, intimidation and power plays are not the exception in politics, they are the rule. In some ways, those things define what politics is. When Johnson was trying to get Civil Rights legislation passed, he called southern Senators and threatened to "cut their nuts off." There is no shortage of insider accounts of campaigns and administrations and Congress throughout history. Read about the deals that Humphrey made with Johnson to advance his career. Read about JFK's threats to governors in the southern states. And of course there was Nixon's heavy-handed politics - exceptional mostly in the sense that we know more about the inner workings there. When Lincoln was trying to get the amendment to the Constitution passed to outlaw slavery, he grabbed congress by the lapels and said I am the president of the United States, clothed in great power to help my friends and hurt my enemies, and everyone new exactly what he was saying: play ball, or I will f*ck you up.

We cannot know exactly how Edwards was forced out of the race. The politicians keep that stuff hidden from us, because they want to put a happy face on the whole mess for the sake of PR and keeping us docile and malleable. We do know that some very powerful interests wanted the Edwards campaign destroyed - and that should not surprise us. We do know that his speech was very contrived and forced and out of character. We do know that there was a dramatic shift in the way the two leading candidates presented themselves immediately after Edwards announcement.

We also can see the power plays mirrored right here in microcosm, since the maneuvering and power plays by the candidates filter down to the grass roots through a variety of channels, and people do the bidding and spread the messages that the handlers of the candidates want disseminated.

Powerful people wanted the Edwards campaign deep-sixed. Those people have tremendous leverage over all of our politicians. They can pick up the phone and accomplish more in five minutes than all of us working together can accomplish in ten years. To deny that this is the truth about American politics is to be completely divorced from reality.

I think the Edwards campaign was too risky for the party leadership, antagonized and provoked too many rabid and powerful attack dogs who could seriously damage the Democratic party politicians, upset the power balance too much, and a calculated decision was made among the party leaders that Edwards needed to go - "for the good of the party." Things were getting out of hand - Edwards was lighting fires that were a little too dangerous to those holding power, and that needed to be suppressed before things spun out of control.

I imagine that Edwards was told something like this - "look, John, you are doing a marvelous job, don't get us wrong, but this just can't happen. You have to play ball, and there is just not going to be support for what you are doing within the party leadership, and it is seriously upsetting corporate interests who can hurt us and everything we are trying to do. We need to compromise, John, you know how the game is played. If you don't cooperate, we will mess you up and you know we can. We need to look at the big picture. For the good of the party, we can't have you flying around like a loose cannon getting people's hopes all fired up. Do you have any idea what a massive change it would require for us to get behind your program? How many skeletons in the closet of ours would be revealed? And the Republicans would use all of that, and they might beat us and then where would we be? We appreciate your idealism, and the issues you are raising, but the reality is that we just cannot piss off the big money people. We might not like that, but that is the reality we have to deal with, and they are getting very angry and making threats to all of us in the party leadership. For the sake of loyalty to the team, and the jobs and positions of so many Democrats who have helped you in the past, you must back down. If you don’t we will bury you."

A conversation such as that would be entirely consistent with what we know about all politicians and how they do business - completely congruent with every back room conversation between every politician in every campaign and every administration throughout our entire history.


Hope that helps you be not so glum, iris!

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iris5426 Donating Member (697 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Thanks!
It definitely gives me a much more eloquent way to make my case to them!

:hug:
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ClericJohnPreston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. What you are describing
is cult behavior.

Great to have you on board Balantz. I always apprciate your posting such informed responses.
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adnelson60087 Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Two Americas, if you're right about John's exit
then why did he go along with the program? Why not stick it out? What could have happened to him?? Any thoughts?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. They're much more sophisticated now. They don't have to assassinate anymore.
Yes, something dirty is afooot. We may never know..... probably won't...

At least we still have him and Elizabeth!
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. why do we?
Why are we tempted to go along? Why are so many DUers going along? He had much more at risk than any of us do.

The pressure to not be a "purist" and not be a "idealist" and not be a "dreamer" is pervasive at all levels of modern society. The enticements and the threats to get in line and compromise and play the game are very powerful.

What could have happened to Lincoln? How was he persuaded to give up on being the Senator from Illinois in 1858 when he had the most votes?

"For the good of the party."

"There is too much at stake."

"We need to be practical."

"Don't get me wrong, I agree with your opposition to slavery, but..."

"Why wreck your career over this? How can you advance the cause if your career is wrecked?"

"The support just isn't there, we need to face reality."

"We need the support of certain powerful people later, and they are opposed to you right now."

"You need to put the cause above your personal ambition."

He withdrew.

Now, did the anti-slavery people say "oh well Lincoln lost so I guess the cause is lost and we had better settle for and support the lesser of two evils - Stephen Douglas?" Sure, many did.

Here is what Lincoln said about that:

"There are those who denounce us openly to their own friends, and yet whisper to us softly that Senator Douglas is the aptest instrument there is with which to effect that object. They wish us to infer all, from the fact that he now has a little quarrel with the present head of the dynasty; and that he has regularly voted with us on a single point, upon which he and we have never differed. They remind us that he is a great man and that the largest of us are very small ones. Let this be granted. 'But a living dog is better than a dead lion.' Judge Douglas, if not a dead lion, for this work, is at least a caged and toothless one.

Our cause, then, must be entrusted to, and conducted by, its own undoubted friends—those whose hands are free, whose hearts are in the work—who do care for the result. Two years ago (we) mustered over thirteen hundred thousand strong. We did this under the single impulse of resistance to a common danger. With every external circumstance against us, of strange, discordant, and even hostile elements, we gathered from the four winds, and formed and fought the battle through, under the constant hot fire of a disciplined, proud, and pampered enemy. Did we brave all then, to falter now?—now, when that same enemy is wavering, dissevered, and belligerent! The result is not doubtful. We shall not fail—if we stand firm, we shall not fail. Wise counsels may accelerate, or mistakes delay it; but, sooner or later, the victory is sure to come."


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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Absolutely brilliant analysis! I'm a gonna quote you again...
Dang, every time I think I've finally printed out the real jewel of your awareness, you come up with another one!

You sure aren't fiddling while the party burns...

:rofl:

:loveya:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I got this mental image from your words...
I saw a figure like us standing on the curb, with a nasty, polluting bus roaring away, with the big Dem donkey on the side.

Then, the figure was under the wheel of the bus....

Bray, donkey!
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. I'm with you there.
It is all very obvious to me. I wish the majority of Americans could see the glaring truth of it. It scares me that people can be so blinded in so many numbers.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. There are a lot of good Edwards People here.
That's how I got my star. It's nice to see people speaking with their actions, not just there words.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. Happy birthday, balantz!
It's so nice to see you with a star. :hug: :toast:

:party:
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. My
HAPPY BIRTHDAY :party: wishes as well, balantz!
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. Happy Birthday balantz !
:hug: Life is still good here in Edwards land -
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Thanks all!
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 08:37 PM by balantz
:hi:
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pamela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. Happy Birthday!
:party:
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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
21. Awesome! So glad you're here, balantz!
And... Andrea and saracat, YOU are awesome. :) What a wonderful thing to do. I love REAL DU'rs like you!

A belated Happy Birthday, balantz! (I didn't see this 'til just now.) I've enjoyed your posts, and am happy to see you here with us.
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