I got my LTTE in the Sun Sentinal!

[immoderate]

:bounce:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/sfl-brmail370pnfeb18,0,299134.story

I'll save you some clicks, it's like this...

America not Christian

February 18, 2009

The United States is not founded on Judeo-Christian principles, as a letter to the editor on January 24 states. It is founded on British Common Law, which pre-dates Christianity in England, and the Renaissance philosophies of John Locke and Jean Jacques Rousseau. The first five presidents were not Christian; they were deists, except Adams, who was a Unitarian.

The Constitution makes no reference to any particular god. It says that all men are endowed by their Creator, which in my case means my parents. The Constitution also specifies that no religious test should ever be required of any office holder. The Treaty of Tripoli, ratified in 1797, which gives it the force of law, states the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion. And of course, most famously, the Bill of Right states that Congress can make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

Jefferson and Madison, principle authors of the Declaration and the Constitution, respectively, did not believe in the divinity of Christ.

Jefferson even created his own version of the Bible, which excluded all the supernatural and religious doctrine, leaving only the moral and biographical information. It ran forty-six pages. And of the Ten Commandments, only two are part of our law, the prohibitions against murder and stealing. These, of course, are part of every moral code, even where the Bible is unknown. It is unfortunate that Americans know so little about their history. The invocation of so called Judeo-Christian principles is often heard, but is never followed by specification of those principles.

They held it for three weeks. If you go to the link, you can leave comments. You don't have to register.

--imm

[NMMNG]

1. Nice work

I commented. I must say, though, that Topix always brings out the nutcases. That's the danger of poor moderation.

[immoderate]

2. Yeah, but the first page is pretty good.

--imm

[enlightenment]

3. Nice.

I would argue that this statement is open to debate, however: "It is founded on British Common Law, which pre-dates Christianity in England, . . ."

Not so much. There are undoubtedly some elements evident prior to the arrival of Christianity in England; the Venerable Bede wrote that the earliest Anglo-Saxon law was drawn up iuxta exempla Romanorum and the idea of the king as the embodiment of the state probably owes much to the Viking concept of kenning. Still, the farther you go from the codifications of Henry II, the weaker the evidence becomes for a 'pre-Christian' birth of English common law.

Just an academic quibble though - it's a good LTTE!

[immoderate]

4. I admit I'm light on this topic.

My reasoning is that (according to a cursory search) the locals had a system of judges and trials, and sometimes juries, that predates Christianity. I figured that was enough to state my claim. I appreciate the *enlightenment* though.

--imm

[enlightenment]

5. I really wasn't trying to be a downer, imm -

I guess it sounds that way, though. Please accept my sincere apology. I think I was a bit concerned that someone might latch onto that one line to try and invalidate the rest of your letter . . .

As long as you're comfortable with your back-up for the statement (in case someone does go after it), no problems!

[immoderate]

6. I didn't take it that way. No apology necessary.

I absolutely read it as your being helpful, and my gratitude is sincere. Really, thanks for your help.

--imm

[progressoid]

7. Outstanding.

:applause:

That kind of thing would get you a flaming bag of poo on your doorstep around here (or worse).

[immoderate]

8. LOL.

I'll find out tomorrow if anybody at work saw it. :hide:

--imm

[progressoid]

9. I had a boss who I'm sure would have fired me for that.

And probably be disowned by a lot of my family as well.

[immoderate]

10. I doubt if people where I work will have seen it. Anyway I'm in very blue Broward County.

And my family is Jewish, so when I write a letter that says this isn't a Christian country, it's a "mitzvah." My uncle sent a link to everybody he knows.

--imm

[Strong Atheist]

11. Good job!

:applause:

[immoderate]

12. Thank you!

--imm

[rrneck]

13. There, y'see. Now I'm learning something.

I didn't know about the Treaty of Tripoli. Thanks.

[NMMNG]

14. Every atheist needs to know about the ToT

:hi:

[progressoid]

16. Hey, you're not Buffy anymore.

This is such a confusing time for me (holds head in hands)!

[onager]

15. Congratulations!

Great work.

:thumbsup:

Speaking of the Founders, I don't believe any modern "liberal" politician has ever made the case for religious tolerance better than George Washington. And he did so in a purely "ceremonial" speech to the Jewish citizens of Newport, RI. IOW, he wasn't seeking votes, money or anything else, just speaking his mind:

For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.

Beautiful. And he didn't even say "good XIAN citizens!"

[immoderate]

17. George Washington!!

What can you say? He was cool.

Thanks.

--imm

[and-justice-for-all]

18. That is a good beat down.....excellent and spot on correct.nt

[brooklynite]

19. Nice web ad going with the comments:

Christian Mother makes $5K a month from the comfort of her home.

Atheist mothers need not apply?

[immoderate]

20. One of those key word things...

BTW, I am an alum of Brooklyn Tech :patriot:

--imm