Ok I stayed off DU

[Gelliebeans]

out of respect for my fellow catholic DU'ers because I had nothing meaningful to add regarding the pope. As I said before I didn't agree with him but he meant something to catholics on DU and let's face it as an atheist in the current political climate I need all the friends I can get :)

In that,

I spent the day reflecting on what all this (religious fervor) means to me and my family.
The religious crutch that the country is feeling and portraying is worrisome to say the least. It might get much worse before it gets better.

Will we be cast out and forced to hide our atheism? Could we really be stepping back in time? I don't think I would fair well with medievil practices.

I prefer to think that reasonable dialog would prevent such sweeping generalities against our community but I don't know if reasonable dialog works real well with people like fundamentalists. I have frankly been astonished at the reasoning behind some other religious groups lately. People professing to be progressive and christian acting more like the GOP. It really confuses me. :shrug:

Will people of faith be willing to stand with the atheist when it comes to the constitution?

Does one's faith supersede my constitutional rights?

Maybe I have trust issues....but I feel many would be willing to uphold their religious beliefs over my constitutional rights. Call it a gut feeling or maybe I am just feeling the "god stuff" leaking all over the place. Could very well be hypersensitivity on my part, but I have a sinking feeling someone else around here feels the same as I do.

For instance, I can see school prayer rearing it's ugly head again. Some people of faith that I know don't see a problem with it if as long as an atheist or non-believer can stand in silence instead of praying. Even after I stated that I personally don't want my child wasting valuable school time and I also think it promotes more peer pressure problems for our already stressed out kids. These particular people don't see what I'm getting all worked up over. :eyes:
Gee isn't funny how secular people's rights are so nitpicky. <sacasm>

Are we really going to have to quibble over every little thing all over again? Don't answer, I already know that answer. :mad:

I know we have had a couple of weeks of religion overload especially here at DU. This forum seems to be a smaller representation of the public at large and if I feel the squeeze from progressives I can expect a full-blown head lock from the rest of the world. EEK

I have and will continue to try to state my reasons respectfully but when I see political forums turning into religious havens and when I have to defend church and state issues with progressive people I have to wonder if my approach is effective.

I had an all out argument at the hospital with this old lady when I went for my monthly infusion, it was regarding stem cells. This woman insisted that babies were being killed so that scientists could clone humans. :eyes: (you just can't make this shit up)
My nurse had to intervene because my blood pressure was going up as I was arguing with this woman.
My point to this story is I don't know if I have the strength to fight them everyday and I would prefer not to have to argue with liberal democrats first before I get to debate the real enemies like this whackjob from the hospital.

I know this is terrible to say but I hope that old bitch at the hospital was sick when she went home that afternoon. :evilgrin:

This is going to be a fight for the rest of my lifetime and I am only in my thirties. I was really hoping for more progress but with the current political climate I just don't see that happening.

I know the only possible way to promote a godless POV is through reason and respect but it's getting harder and harder lately. Humor from my fellow atheists has been helpful as we see these frightening trends blossom before us.

[YankeyMCC]

1. One good thing about atheism

Is that it isn't a sin to pretend you're not atheist. So if we do find ourselves in a theocracy we can much more easily hide than a religious person could hide in a place where their religion is outlawed. ;)

But seriously, don't let the loudmouth fundies blind you to the fact that most people in this nation still believe in god. And most of those people are not followers of the radical religious right and will stand with people of all faiths or lack thereof on constitutional issues.

There may be varying degrees but there will always be some to some degree and that is part of democracy we can't expect the whole culture to move in one or two giant steps.

[Gelliebeans]

2. after all

we wouldn't of survived this long without adapting to the situation as necessary. ;) thanks for your imput

[onager]

3. I had to "officially" adapt once...

...and it was kind of funny. My employer wanted me to go work in Saudi Arabia for a couple of years.

When I got the form for a Saudi visa, it had a space for "Religion."

I asked the company expert about that, and she said: "There are only 2 things you can't put in there. Atheist or Jewish."

After pondering that for a while, I figured I had spent a lot of my life protesting religion, so I put down "Protestant."

[displacedtexan]

5. I had forgotten all about forms requiring "Religion!"

The only job I ever applied for and didn't get was when I wrote "None" on the application form.

[Gelliebeans]

8. Right on!

:yourock:

[GOPFighter]

4. I think the kooky fundies are hanging themselves

I think they stepped way over the line in the Terri Schiavo incident. I'm starting to hear a lot of criticism from RWers directed towards them and the Tom DeLays who are pandering to them. IMO, the stronger they get the kookier they look.

As for prayer in the schools, we can now ask why? What possible proof do they have that prayer works? Milions upon millions of devout Christians prayed to God to intervene in the Terri Schiavo dispute and...nothing happened. Every step of the way, the fundies lost. So much for the power of prayer.

Personally, I think the current religious fanaticism is going to crash and burn soon (within a few years). There are just too many bright people, people of influence and integrity, liberals and conservatives, who understand the dangers of demolishing the wall between church and state, and they will become more and more outspoken as the fundies gain political power.

[Gelliebeans]

9. I am hoping

that they crash and burn also! I personally haven't heard much of a backlash from republicans regarding Schiavo but I don't get out that much.
Here's hoping if there is a backlash at least it will be a good show. :popcorn:

besides as my husband says we haven't seen anything on the tube in days except Popepalooza 2005 :eyes:

[Az]

6. Taking a break myself, but had to respond to this

Yes it is difficult. We often simply cannot see how they live the way they do. If often seems like they simply don't even know we exist. And then when we do show up we are seen as destroyers and antisocial whiners. The common thread through all this is ignorance. Ignorance on both sides.

There are far more believers that embrace tolerance. But ignorance of other groups and the plights they are forced to go through blinds them. They simply don't see or know the impact this society has on people not like them. Simply because they don't know people not like them.

There is a saying. Ignorance can be cured, stupidity is forever. Ignorance is easily cured. Information and awareness destroy it. And this is where the civility comes in.

Most people are told that atheists are antisocial cynics who have no joy or love in their heart. If you want to destroy myths the single best way is to have those that believe the myths experience that they are wrong. While we can't make them experience a lack of god we can let them experience atheists that are kind, considerate, and compassionate, all while embracing reason as their guiding cause. This destroys so many myths that it can even cause them to question other beleifs they have been taught by those demonizing us.

There are far more believers that embrace tolerance. But tolerance creates silence in circumstances. The certainty of hatred gives voice to the vocal minority. It can only really be countered by an increase in understanding and compassion.

[Gelliebeans]

10. Thanks for responding Az

I have really tried to keep myself in check regarding my overly sensitive reactions. That woman in my post made my blood boil, she basically told me that I had less rights to live a healthy life than some tissue in a petri dish. Normally I wouldn't of given her the time of day but I was hooked to up meds at that very moment and I will have to continue to take them every month until they find a cure for my illness. Her mindset stands between the possibility of a normal life again and being too tired and weak to play with my kid.

Not a hard choice for me but I guess some people will never it see it. Please don't misunderstand I don't think I deserve more than anyone else but I just want a fighting chance to beat this with the best medicine possible.

I always try to remember that for me to be respectful and kind I should do so expecting nothing in return. I guess sometimes it gets difficult waiting for reciprocation (total human flaw on my part)

That is the reason why I continue to look to other atheists for their input on DU. You guys rrrrrrrr great
:grouphug:

[GOPFighter]

12. One of our biggest problems is...

...that by curing ignorance we are threatening their security blanket. As atheists we often can't comprehend just how incredibly important that blanket is to their mental health. For many it truly is the duct tape holding their lives together. That is why I try to be careful who I argue with. I honestly feel I can convince almost anyone there can't possibly be a god, at least not a god worthy of being worshiped. At least I'm sure I can plant serious seeds of doubt in most people's minds. But what good does that do someone if their religion is the one and only thing propping them up and keeping them going?

We often forget that the average person out there is scared. Scared of making a mistake, scared of being considered "different", and scared of the future. They grasp at the rules of conduct and security religion provides like a drowning man grasps a life raft. Once on the life raft, they will fight like demons, anyone who tries to take their life raft away. For some reason our society does a lousy job of making people feel confident and secure.

[fshrink]

7. When in doubt, look at history.

Your question 1: No.
Your question 2: Yes.
That's where we are. Although, contrary to Fuckyouyama's statement, this is not the "end of history."

[Gelliebeans]

11. thanks fshrink

straight and to the point---:hi: