Nobody watched Carnivale this week? (2-6)

[lazarus]

Things are heating up nicely.

Was that mask guy creepy or what? Ick.

Looks like we're headed for Nebraska.

Oh, and Appollonia's appearance was creepy, wasn't it?

[liberalnurse]

1. I didn't see your post....

I just started a thread on the subject....Ghee, we were like 2 minutes apart! A Carnivale moment.....





I wanted to watch it again before I entered into discussion. One has to really think where this is all going.

I think momma is going to be a strong catalysis for Ben and Sophie.

[lazarus]

2. Heh

More like 5 hours. :D

I'm worried about Ben and Sophie's hooking up, as I've thought they were half-siblings from early in season one.

[dr.strangelove]

3. Nothing personal liberalnurse, but I'm using this thread (SPOILERS)

I had to pick one, and since you both chatted already in this thread, lets use this one.

That was a FREAKY episode. Apollonia scares me. "It was always you who could read the cards." This suggests that Sophie has that magic blood. If she is the daughter of "The Usher" she certainly has the bloodline for it. (Did Sophie confirm that she was the result of the tattooed man raping Apollonia last season when she talked to Samson about it? I need to get season one on DVD).

Anyone else looking forward to the eventual showdown between Samson and Lilah. I note that Lilah is a nickname for Delilah. So we have a Samson and a Delilia. Daniel Knauf is making this one great series.

The bleeding mask was a nice touch. I wish Justin would have kept the mask and watched the world through Ben's eyes some more.

I agree with liberalnurse that Justin is setting up Tommy Dolan. I don't think Iris is in on it, but Justin knows Iris' value and won;t turn her in.

I can't wait for Damascus. Will Scudder be there? I think he will.

I love the title of next weeks episode, "The Road to Damascus." The women running the other Carney is Samson's ex-wife. The actress who plays her (Bree Walker) suffers from ectrodactylism, fusing of the fingers and toes. I love this show.

[lazarus]

4. I believe

That Sophie is the daughter of Scudder. I'm not sure why, I'll have to research it some. Appollonia's bio calls her Sophie the Younger. Younger of twins?

The most convincing "evidence" that Sophie is Ben's sister? Justin has a sister. So Ben needs one, to keep up the parallels.

Here's a coincidence: Rita Sue's (cooch Mama) mother is named Emma. Henry Scudder's mother is named Emma. Hmm....

And I'm waiting for something else: Justin is sending that jerk around, going by the name Michael. Ruthie's son is the strongman named Gabriel, who's presumable completely faithful to Ben, having been healed by him.

Another thought: Kudos to Adrienne Barbeau for actually allowing herself to age. She's gorgeous, simply because her face is her face, not stretched and stapled and mutilated by surgery. Wonderful performance I was totally not expecting.

Notice that Gecko and the twins are missing this year? Rumour is that the budget was getting tight, and they needed to focus on the upcoming battle. Plus, the twins needed to go back to Cirque du Soleil or something.

Oh, Stroud's monologue about the Ferris Wheel? Spooky, right? Check out his bio:

"Varlyn "Bird Dog" Stroud - Committed his first murder at the age of 9, when he deliberately upset a Ferris-wheel car, his younger sister, Clara, falling to her death. Three years later, he killed his grandfather in a "hunting" accident. Since then, he has been a suspect in over a dozen contract-killings for the Milwaukee mob. His specialty is tracking down witnesses under protection by law enforcement. Though never convicted of homicide, Stroud had spent most of his life in prison on a variety of charges."

Hmm....

[dr.strangelove]

5. I'm not sure that Scudder is the Usher

I recall the scene where Appollonia was raped by the tattooed man. We now know the tattooed man was "the usher."
Brother Justin is the "new" usher.
I am not sure if Scudder or management was the "old" usher (or maybe someone else). I assumed for awhile that Scudder was the Tattooed man in Ben's dreams and in the mural at the temple. We never see the tattooed man's face, so maybe that was management.

I like the rest of your analysis. And yes, Stroud is a FREAK!

[lazarus]

6. Could be someone else is the Usher

Something I love about this series is that lots of theories get blown to bits every episode, while new ones crop up. And they give us enough answers that I can sense it's not going to end up in a lame X-Files conclusion.

[NashVegas]

7. Ruthie & Appollonia

I got the distinct impression that it was hinted Scudder may have "healed" Appie in some way.

Also - when Appie appeared to Sophie and said she was always the one reading the cards - was it me, or did Appie sound like she was speaking with a man's voice?

And let's look at the name, Appollonia - named for the god of light. Sophia - wisdom. I've got friends who insist Sophie is going to turn out to be on Justin's side. I'm hoping that won't be so.

[lazarus]

8. I know Scudder healed Ruthie

I missed the part about Appollonia.

I would find it fascinating if Sophie was on Justin's side, while Iris switched over to Ben's side.

I keep forgetting to check all the names for meaning, too. Lodz, for instance, is a Polish town that held one of the Jewish ghettos in WWII. I dunno if that means anything or not. Probably not.

[NashVegas]

9. If You Watch It Again

take note of the conversation between Ruthie and Sophie, about Ruthie's newfound ability to see ghosts.

I can't remember what Scudder healed Ruthie for, but did he bring her from as far back in the brink as Ben did?

I know there was a Ruth in the OT, but can't remember what her role was.

My friend at work insists that Appollonia was trying to kill Sophie because Sophie was evil. But others have pointed out that it might only have been because Sophie was planning to leave the carnival.

[lazarus]

10. hmm

I know Scudder healed Ruthie from a snakebite, that was last season.

Remember that just before the fire, Lodz went in to "talk" with Appollonia? He was stunned, and kept saying something like "It can't be her".

Sophie's evil, I think. Or is the sacrificial lamb to push Ben over the edge into his full power.

[liberalnurse]

11. I think Sophie is to Ben

what Iris is to Brother Justin.......I see her as good.

[dr.strangelove]

18. I think she will be evil in the end of this

I think she will try to prevent Ben from stopping Justin, or she will try to stop Justin to become the dark power herself.

[liberalnurse]

27. There are clues.....

It was freaky when Sophie was humming the same tune Justin was in Episode 15. She was digging the trench; Justin was leaving the house right after he told Iris that Celeste wasn't working out.

[Kire]

12. what makes brother justin the "new usher"?

Is it just the tattoo? To me, that whole tattoo seems a little forced. Like he got tattooed on his own because he is trying to be the usher, but he is not a "made man" yet, if you know what I mean. What other evidence is there that Justin is the usher. Isn't it still a competition between him and Ben?

[lazarus]

13. He's got to kill Scudder

Once he kills Scudder, he becomes the Usher. Or something like that. Still not sure on the whole thing.

[trotsky]

15. Yes, that's it.

That's what the guy who cut him at the radio station said. When Justin kills Scudder - with his bare hands - he will become the usher of destruction.

[dr.strangelove]

16. We found out is Season 2, Episode 1 at KZAC

When Justin and Tommy went into KZAK (before Justin performed his miracle of making a 5,000 watt station broadcast at 10,000 watts), Wilford told Justin he was there for the Usher. Wilford sliced Justin's palm and it bled red, not the blue goop from the dream. Wilford was surprised that Justin still bled like a man, but then concluded that "He's still alive." Justin asks who and Wilford told him that Justin has to kill "him" with Justin's own hands in order to become the prophet and the Usher.

Who he has to kill is a bit of a mystery. I think you are right that Sophie is evil and is the spawn of the usher. It may be that Justin has to kill her. Maybe management is the Usher. I am still not sure, but I know Justin is to become the "new" Usher.

[trotsky]

14. D'oh! I did!

Had to wait until Monday night to see it. I love HBO OnDemand.

Mask guy, wow. What a weirdo. But he can work his own little style of magic, that's for sure.

A very confusing episode - not many questions answered. The scene of Sofie reading Ben's cards - what odd visions. This is gonna get wild.

[dr.strangelove]

17. Alright how are Justin and Management related (SPOILER)

Management is "the Russian" from Ben's dreams. We know he got mauled by a bear, who probably escaped from Lotz' carney/zoo. He told Ben his name was Lucius Belyakov. We also know that Iris and Justin are Russian and their mother's name is also Belyakov. From the HBO web site: "their mother, Plemina Belyakov...")

Is Management Justin and Iris's father?

[lazarus]

19. makes sense, doesn't it?

Management ---> Justin
Scudder ---> Ben

The roles, apparently, are reversed. Or are they? It's seemed all along that Management was good, Scudder evil. WHo knows how it will come out?

And the bear did belong to Lodz. Lodz hooked up with management looking for Scudder, in revenge for Scudder's taking his sight.

[dr.strangelove]

20. How could good spawn evil?

If Management was good, how could he spawn the creature of darkness, or the usher of evil? I still think there is someone else involved who has not yet been revealed.

[lazarus]

21. and evil spawned good

weird, isn't it?

I dunno, but we know that the offspring are the way they are.

Is it possible that management is evil and Scudder is good?

[trotsky]

22. I have entertained that thought.

But I don't think it's possible.

If management were really evil, he would have taken advantage of Ben's offer to heal him, wouldn't he?

[lazarus]

23. hmm

Unless he's trying to turn Ben, and is manipulating him for some reason.

I dunno. I know I don't trust any of them. :D

[trotsky]

24. Well, I just thought of something else.

Who's pursuing whom right now?

Management is pursuing Scudder (through Ben).
Justin is pursuing Scudder (through Varlyn).

We know that killing Scudder will make Justin the new Usher. Does Management want the same thing? But if so (i.e., if killing Scudder means his killer gets to usher in an age of destruction), why would it matter to Management whether he or Justin does it?

Management showed the vision of the A-bomb test to Ben to illustrate what would happen if Justin wins. Well, that's interesting because according to real history, we know that the A-bomb test *does* happen, so do we already know that Justin will win?

After all, the overarching theme of the series is the final end of magic in the world. Seems like the A-bomb test will end the magic - but will that be for good or for bad?

Arrrgh, it just makes my head spin.

[dr.strangelove]

25. I wonder if Ben is good.

It is all going to get very twisted. I think you may be right that scudder is good.

[liberalnurse]

26. Free will applies.

Scudder may of been the Creature of Darkness but chose not to be evil. I think Samson tells this in his monologue.

[drdon326]

28. I love this show.......

and ive learned more about the show by reading the above than in one and a half seasons.

[lazarus]

29. Coolness

I do find this show to be very, very conducive to discussion and interpretation. :hi:

[liberalnurse]

30. It's 8:21 PM Sunday night......

I'm hunkered down for Carnivale at 9:PM......

You start the thread Lazarus........

I think it's going to really pick up for Ben tonight!

[drdon326]

31. My sincerest apologies to you and Lazarus

i was typing the thread when you posted the above.

can self delete if you wish.

my apologies again.

[liberalnurse]

32. Go ahead .....thats cool.

I think we all are so passionate and always need to process post Carnivale' that we tend to step on each other. You go first tonight.....