I am sick of those who say the two parties are the same

[JohnKleeb]

It's an insult to those who have had their lives improved by Democratic party policies. I don't support the Democratic Party because they're the best alternative to the Republicans, I support them because I like what the party stands for and the people in it. Sorry if I sound angry but people who act like the two parties are one and the same to me are really obnxious.

[JI7]

1. i keep seeing this shit also

many have taken advantage of the recent middle east conflict to spout this again.

anytime i hear this i think back to what Bill Clinton did as President. and Bill Clinton is probably at the top of the list of those they use to claim there is no difference. or dlc or whatever else they throw out.

but look back to Clinton and how hard he worked on middle east peace. and look at what Bush did. there was a significance and clear differenc ein their actions. the fuckers who ignore this most likely don't care about any peace. but have a selfish disgusting agenda of their own which probably includes something like "things have to get worse before they get better".

[JohnKleeb]

2. You know what I say of these people

They're exactly what they claim they're not. A bunch of elitists who would rather be right than have the world solve its problems. Yeah I admit I am not a huge fan of Clinton however it would be bullshit to say there was no difference between Clinton and either Bush. They are selfish and they are more like what they claim to be against than those of us who ar emore "moderate" and thus part of the evil DLC :eyes:. They use DLC and Neo-Con and honestly they don't know what it means. I saw Kerry in the primaries and others called neo-cons because of their stances on domestic issues, neo-conservatism has nothing to do with domestic pilicies and everything to do with international and of course every time someone does them wrong, they're DLC. I have to count my graces again by saying thank god they do NOT run the party. They shouldn't get attention if they go around saying the only reason they vote for our party is because it's the best way to avoid Republican dominance. Seriously it's the extremists of the world that are causing the problems not people who try to find the common god.

[wisteria]

3. I agree, and a lot of this "their all the same crap" is coming from

Republican voters. It seems to be a justification for them being mislead and disillusioned with their party.
I especially hate hearing, 'oh, their all crooks".
How do you respond, other than to say that's not true and point out people like kerry who have always been honest and is a Senator for the right reasons and not just to line his pockets.

[Mass]

4. These people for the most part are not Democrats. Some are

former Republicans, others are ultragreens, other simply may be trolls.

This said, you cannot discount that some people more liberal than you are may be disappointed by what the Democrats are doing. It sometimes seems that winning is more important than principles, as for the Democrats who voted for increasing drilling in the Gulf of Mexico even though it does not do anything but giving money away to oil companies. Same thing goes for the ME conflict. I think a lot of people are expecting more from the Democrats and not seeing it (thanks to Leahy for the speech he made yesterday). They are expecting leadership and honestly not seeing it.

This probably accounts for the largest part of disgruntled people on DU and elsewhere.

[ray of light]

5. I missed the Leahy speech. Do you have a link?

Also, some are the same. Those are a minority called the 'corporatists' because those just want to get re-elected. Stabenow and Lieberman are proof of this. (Look at the Bankruptcy bill as proof!)

[Mass]

6. Here

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200608/080106.html

[ray of light]

7. thank you!

I heard about his speech but I didn't know what day it had been presented.

[ray of light]

9. terrific statement! THIS was a legitimate peace-broker's

statement. Not anti-Israel or anti-Lebanon. Instead it focused on the situation that was harming innocent civilians. It spoke of international diplomacy and the need for more than a "parachute in and then cut and run approach" that the Bushies do.

It also spoke of the way the US has to show some integrity in this.

Now I understand why his statement was so well received.

[wisteria]

10. I caught that vote yesterday, I believe Senator Clinton voted for it. n/t

[Mass]

11. Among others. If it was going to have an impact on the price of oil,

I could understand, but it will take years before this will produce any oil and will solve nothing, so why? (I can understand why LA, MS, AL, and TX voted for it. They will get revenue, but NY State?).

Kerry was not there, but he said he would have voted against it.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Thing is I am quite liberal, you know I am no moderate

They want our members of Congress to be in 100% in agreement with them. We're criticizing Allen here in Virginia for being a rubber stamp for Bush and rightfully so, no one should be a rubber stamp for either side.

[Mass]

15. I'd like that too, but it is not going to happen. The only person I am

100 % in agreement with is myself, and even there...

For now, I would be happy with leadership (which is why I like Kerry, even if I do not always agree with him).

This said, I dont disagree with you on those who do not see the difference between Dems and Reps. I just do not think these people are Democrat, that is all.

[JohnKleeb]

16. Yeah I guess you're right

about them not being Democrats.

[ProSense]

8. This is really good:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2430645&mesg_id=2430645

[ProSense]

14. More good stuff!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2754016&mesg_id=2754016

[Dr Ron]

12. Even more absurd the last few years

At one point when there were Ripon Republicans and lots of conservtive southern Democrats it was easier to make the case that the parties were the same as you could find liberals and conservatives in each party. (If Republicans had nominated people like Rockefeller instead of Goldwater there would have been an even stronger argument for this).

It is even harder to make such a claim now that there is so much polarization, and with moderate Republicans losing influence in the party leaving the far right in control.