Pius XII and Hitler

[hedgehog]

Now that I have your attention, will people be explaining in 50 years that the American bishops declared the Iraq war to be an unjust war?

[DemBones DemBones]

1. Given the way Pius XII has been made out to be a villain,

people will probably believe that John Paul II, Benedict XVI and all the bishops supported the war, when in fact they all opposed it.

I just kicked up my thread with articles from the Jerusalem Post and the Guardian (UK) about how Pius XII saved thousands of Jews.

[hedgehog]

2. The bishops may oppose the war, but has anyone here heard a

homily denouncing it? How about one of those letters from the Chancery, to be read at all the Masses? Better yet, how about one of those videos of the bishop?

[rug]

3. I'd settle for a second collection for Iraqi orphans.

[DemBones DemBones]

5. Contact Catholic Relief and see if they have a program for

Iraqi orphans or if they know of a good one in Iraq. No sense taking up a special collection unless there's a charity in place that can put the money to good use.

When the war ends, I think Americans will be adopting Iraqi orphans the way they adopted Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian orphans after the Vietnam war ends.

[rug]

6. Caritas is involved.

http://www.caritas.org/jumpNews.asp?idChannel=376&idLang=ENG&idUser=0&idNews=1289

But if local parishes took steps to carry out the church's stated criticism of the war it would involve Catholics more than mailing a donation to a charity. I don't think many pastors or dioceses want to deal with the reaction of many who prefer to limit the parishes' involvement with Iraq to prayers for the military.

[DemBones DemBones]

7. Great! Ask your pastor to put something in the

bulletin about it and perhaps allow you to organize some sort of fund raiser to contribute to Caritas, or to start a group to do this. If you're not used to being a leader or organizer, ask someone else if s/he will do it or help you.

What else is it you want your priest to do? AFAIK, he can't stand up and call for impeachment or say * is a liar without risking trouble with the IRS. He can talk about what the pope and the bishops have said against the war and he may be able to suggest parishioners write to their senators and representative to urge that the war be ended. Maybe you could start a petition drive with his permission. It's a lot easier to get people to sign a petition at a card table outside the sanctuary than it is to get them to write letters, though you might not get many to sign in one week. Edit: If you do this, try to get 10 or more people to sign before you set up outside the sanctuary. Nobody wants to be the first or second to sign but if they see 10-20 people have already signed, they're more willing to sign, too.

Don't just wait on your priest to do things, take action on your own, and make suggestions. Tell him that you wish he'd preach about helping Iraqi orphans and what the pope and bishops have said about this unjust war. Give him copies of good articles.

As low as *'s ratings are now, I doubt there are many people who would be offended by a call for the end of this war, especially if it's only approached as the war has failed and things will never improve until our troops leave.

Get the pastor's permission to organize a chapter of Pax Christi in the parish. Ask the Knights of Columbus or another parish group to help with the campaign to help Iraqi orphans. Nobody can be against helping orphans, even if they support the war. (The Knights are a good group in most parishes because they have a lot of members and money. If there are other large groups in your parish, talk to them, too.)

If your parish is like most, you don't have enough priests (we have one for more than 700 registered families and of course some people never register.) There are a lot of things a priest has to do besides say Mass and a lot of good causes that need help so we can't really expect the priest (or priests, if you're lucky enough to have more than one) to do everything. And the 80/20 rule usually applies: 20% of the people do 80% of the volunteer work in the parish and 20% of the people give 80% of the money in Sunday collections, building drives, you name it. Obviously, you need to target that 20%.

[rug]

8. He's still pissed at me for reading the bulletin during Mass.

He'll go ballistic if I tell him what to put in it.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. Well, do you know anyone else in the

parish who shares your concerns and can talk to the priest?

[shrike]

10. Yeah, they do have to be careful what they say politically

Unless it were something that fit into the Bush junta's agenda.

You know, is it me or has there been an upswing in anti-Catholic press lately? It seems to come in cycles, but it seems to be especially high-profile of late. I realize the chronicle of sinful behavior in the L.A. diocese has been major news of late, but it seems to go beyond that. Every nit-picking little thing.

[DemBones DemBones]

4. Talk to your priest and write to your bishop,

suggesting they do this.

[shrike]

9. Yep

My pastor, who is on the right side of things, said in his homily that he was disgusted and appalled by Christians who supported the destruction of Muslims and Muslim culture.

"Who are we," he said, "To say such things after Christians did in the Middle East, for centuries, in Christ's name?"

I shook his hand after the mass and thanked him.

[skater314159]

14. Uh...

There *have been* priests who have *tried* to speak out against military action - in Afghanistan and Iraq - since 11 Sept, 2001.

Unfortunately, priests, nuns, brothers, and others who speak out from the pulpit are threatened with having the IRS status of their Church being removed, IRS investigations of the Church's records, and other bully tactics from the IRS and the Republican led government.

Priests are responsible for the care and tending of thier flock, and while they can make their opinions known to individuals of the parish, as it currently stands in this country priests are not free to speak openly against the war.

This has happened in both Catholic and Protestant (Episcopal) parishes throughout the US. I am sure that it will continue to happen until Bush is out of office.

[hedgehog]

15. Talk about coming full circle, do you realize what you just said?

Priests are not speaking out publicly against the war lest their churches be persecuted by the government. For years, apologists for the Church have made the claim that the official Church had to stay silent to protect Catholics from persecution by the Nazis.

In Nazi Germany, if the hierarchy had spoken out, people would have died. Edith Stein was arrested when converts were rounded up after the Dutch bishops spoke out. In our case, we are threatened with seizure of real estate and other assets.


Still, as I said in my original post, what will people be saying about the Catholic Church in 50 years? Everyone in the country knows the Pope's stand on homosexual behavior, married priests, women priests, artificial birth control, mandatory celibacy etc, etc. Anyone who questions those stands should expect to be disciplined by the hierarchy. How many know his stand on the War in Iraq?

[DemBones DemBones]

16. Those who don't know that the pope has spoken out

against the war are not paying attention. We can't make people pay attention.

The media also pay far more attention to the pope's statements that they know will rile people up; they support anti-Catholicism. Rarely do they emphasize a statement by the pope that most people would support.

Catholics may question the Church's stand against married priests, women in the priesthood, same sex marriages, artificial contraceptives or anything else without being disciplined by the Church hierarchy. Only one bishop has had the courage to tell Catholics that they had to choose between their membership in Catholics for Choice, a pro-abortion group, and excommunication. (In fact, supporting abortion in any way means that a Catholic excommunicates himself/herself but most Catholics seem unaware of that.)

Catholic theologians who repeatedly speak and write against Church teaching are disciplined by the Church hierarchy, and I don't know of a case that has involved the issues you mentioned. The cases that I know of have involved theologians questioning basic tenets of the Catholic Faith.

Protestant theologians who question basic tenets of their particular denomination are also disciplined by their superiors, and Protestants who don't hold the beliefs of their denomination or act against them may be asked to leave.

Most groups, religious or not, generally have some rules members are expected to follow.

[YOY]

11. Given the way Catholics here are treated like Born Again Evangelists at DU

It's no wonder we have to explain things like his here.

I'm getting sick of pointing out stuff like this at DU.

[DemBones DemBones]

13. Yes, a lot of DUers apparently can't understand that

the anti-Catholic rants are not the way to win the Catholic vote.

In 2006, the Catholic vote swung back to the Dems and the Dems could keep it if they'd court it, or at least not alienate it.

The Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians may sit out 2008 if they aren't happy with the GOP candidate, and I can't see them being happy with any of those in the race. Some of them might even vote Democratic since the war has become so unpopular, so the general anti-Christian attitudes expressed here are also politically unwise.