Household finances...

[Finder]

On another thread there is a discussion about an article in Forbes that advises men not to marry career women. Some of the responses are interesting regarding how we feminists handle household finances.

I was a bit surprised to see some women(feminists)take the side of a man whose wife happens to make more than he did because she didn't put all her pay into the house.

For so long women have been left with nothing when a husband decides to leave and no matter how much you love or trust a partner, a woman should always have her own to fall back on.IMO I also thought it strange that some thought it was odd for couples to have separate accounts...

Opinions?

[ismnotwasm]

1. I'm in a bit different situation

My husband is disabled with MS, who receives SSDI. I'm a nurse, who makes a decent wage. So he is dependent on me financially. We work things out.

Even if this were not the case, I would insist on being financially separate, with a combined household income for certain things. I would want my own retirement, savings account, etc. (Both my husband and I come from extreme poverty, so It's kind of funny to be even thinking about such things to this day) Not only to protect myself from potential bad behavior, but any number of financial disasters, including catastrophic illnesses or injuries. There are things that transcend love and trust when it comes to finances.

Not everyone seems to be able to do this however, and to make it some couples combine incomes. I understand first hand what it's like to not understand how to manage money--I'm still not particularly good at it.

It's interesting that you ran into that argument. I've heard many sob stories from men on how "she cleaned me out" You would think people of either sex would learn. But I agree, women need to protect themselves in all ways.

For women, especially single mothers whose poverty rate is abysmal, covering oneself financially is good common sense. To say "you can't rely on a man" from my point of view isn't what relavent. It's about women learning to rely on themselves-- And in today's world when we seem to be losing ground, it may be crucial.
Anyway, my three cents.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

4. If I had the power

I would require every single high school student to take a course in basic personal finance. So many young women and men go out in the world with no knowledge of how checking accounts, credit, loans, and mortgages work. That, and comprehensive sex ed. It would sure spare a lot of kids a world of hurt in their lives and relationships.

[ismnotwasm]

9. Amen

Funny how so people don't seem to understand what something like "minimum payment" on a high interest credit card actually means. Especially young people just starting to trying to build credit. Or even interest rates in general. Things like that (I had to learn the hard way, and paid a very high price for ignorance.)

I would love to see comprehensive sex ed. Including frequent open dialog between young men and women. Having them sit down and talk to each other, not just teaching the the mechanics of sex. What do they think sex is? What terms do the boys call girls? Or girls call boys? Why? Is it or is it not ok? What do young men and women think of either sex that is sexually active? Is their a difference in perception between a young woman and a young man? Why? Bringing up and discussing gender roles and sexual perceptions in a non-threatening atmosphere.
Beyond "safe sex" or the morality of sex, I'd love to see sexual roles brought into the open and aired out.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. The double standard is alive and well

Girls are still viewed through the madonna/whore prism while boys are pretty much given free reign and even being encouraged by their parents to get as much 'tail' as they can. It makes absolutely no sense to me but people still cling to it. So much of the abstinence-only nonsense is based on it. They claim it's for both genders but from what I've read and observed, girl's are getting the brunt of the focus. The idea of females having sexual autonomy and the ability to avoid consequences is anathema to the patriarchy.

Your excellent idea of fostering open dialogue between young people would be met with fierce resistance. But I do believe that changes in the economy and society have led to more interaction and understanding between young women and men and that this trend will continue despite the reactionary forces. I mean, years ago it was practically impossible to imagine platonic friendships between men and women. Males and females had their separate spheres and that was that. My grandmother was appalled to learn, back in the 80s, that my sister and I would have telephone conversations with boys whom we weren't even dating! *gasp!* Now it's impossible to imagine people, particularly young people, NOT having friends of the opposite sex.

[raccoon]

12. You know that's right!

"Girls are still viewed through the madonna/whore prism while boys are pretty much given free reign and even being encouraged by their parents to get as much 'tail' as they can. "

And women who have sex outside of a commitment are still thought of by many people, perhaps most people, as "easy" and a slut.

[melnjones]

2. This is a good topic...

Seeing as how often arguments in marital relationships revolve around money, I would be all about separate finances. In my family, we had one of those situations where my mom really DID clean my dad out financially, in some rather illegal and unethical ways. Given the culture my dad was raised in, dealing with stuff in court was something you didn't do, so my mom got away with an awful lot. My dad got custody of my sisters, which was good, but had even less financial ability to support them (he still did/does a damn good job though) and got next to no support from my mom.

My mother is like the big turd in my feminist-world punch bowl.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Separate accounts are fine

And it helps if there is mutual trust, transparency, and responsibility on both sides. They really cut down on the arguments and confusion, IMO.

I also have no problem with prenups, though I think I'm in the minority on that.

[lukasahero]

5. I'm not sure that's an accurate summary of the situation from that thread

As I understood it, when the poster and his wife got married, he was the main bread winner and she was working part time. Her money was her money and his money took care of the household expenses. Now that she is the primary bread winner and he is not making as much money as she is, her money is still her money and his money is still taking care of the household expenses.

My opinion, as a feminist, is that we have fought for the right to be equal contributors, partners in marriage. I do believe that both women and men should have a "nest egg" of their own to fall back on. However, it is, in my opinion, just as unfair (sexist, really) to expect men to foot the bill when the situations (as rare as they are) reverse themselves as it is to expect women to do so when they routinely make less.

Personally, my husband and I split the bills equally even though he has previously made more than me. I wouldn't be comfortable with less than an equal partnership. However, I do like the idea of splitting expenses by percentage - each contributing an equal percentage of their income to the household pool.

[melnjones]

7. good points. nt

[Warpy]

6. I know couples who manage it every which way

My friends are nurses and small business owners and many make more than husbands do.

Some keep their finances completely separate but contribute to shared maintenance of the home, health care, etc; others manage the money, still others have their husbands manage it.

A woman with a good income is never going to be in the desperate situation a housewife is in if the man decides to trade her in for a younger model. Whatever the couple has decided works for them is OK with me, and I see no need to criticize anyone.

I would keep an eye on any husband's management of shared funds, though, to make sure it's not disappearing into hidden accounts or assets in his name only. I've seen too many women get left holding the bag and the family debt when he's split with the baby sitter with all the assets.

[melnjones]

8. management of the funds AND

the credit cards. Very important. Again, my parents' situation was reversed, but my mom left him with many credit cards in HIS name that were completely maxed out.

[CornField]

11. My brother-in-law died last February

It was unexpected -- massive heart attack -- and my sister knew absolutely nothing about their finances. It was a horrible, horrible mess. Since this was a later-life marriage, they each had children from previous relationships. The man's son immediately began demanding all sorts of things -- the truck, the house, personal effects, etc. My other sister and I took extra time off just to help my sister learn to cope with bills, life insurance, her husband's portfolio and so-forth.

[geniph]

13. Our situation is kind of unusual

in that our finances are truly completely separate. Because my husband had had a bankruptcy before we married, the mortgage company even made him file a quitclaim on the house before they'd give me the loan for the mortgage - so it is truly MY house. I make all the mortgage payments. I make considerably more than he does - he owns a small business, which isn't particularly successful financially, but does okay. I pay a higher percentage of the bills than he does. We each have our own checking, savings, and credit accounts. We don't have any joint accounts. We've never had any need for them. He pays his bills. I pay mine. We never fight over money, because it's none of his business if I spend $50 on books, and it's none of mine if he spends $50 on whatever. So long as the bills are being paid, and neither of us feels we're shouldering an unfair portion of the expenses, there's no reason to change the way we handle it.

It would be a bit awkward should we divorce, however, as this is a community property state. The assumption would be that all assets would be split down the middle, which would hardly be fair in the case of the house, as he's not named on the deed and has never made a payment. So, for that and other reasons ;-), it's best that we never divorce. (That IS a joke.)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. If I were ever to marry, I'd want a similar arrangement, because

I've been accustomed to financial autonomy all my life, and I'd find it really hard to have to get approval for my spending.

I could see having a pooled checking account for housing payments and utilities and maybe even groceries, but I'd want the rest to stay separate.

[mzteris]

14. I was just recently discussing the

"reliance on one spouse" with a friend. She is a stay at home mom who IS *dependent* on her husband. She's frugal, he's not. In fact, he's a bit flighty with money. She pays all the bills but he likes to "play the stock market", etc. . .

She's been wanting to save some $$ on her own, but doesn't know how to - er - hide it from him. Because if he knows it's there, he'll want to "invest" it. She doesn't want to just put $$ in a safe deposit box. She'd like for it to earn interest, etc - but how would she go about it without the tax info statement making him aware of it's existence?

[Finder]

15. Savings Bonds...n/t

[bleedingheart]

16. I concur...Savings Bonds and a separate safe deposit box

[bleedingheart]

17. I control everything related to finance in our household

do I want it that way...not really...

But I am married to the absent minded professor type and if left up to him, we would be sitting on a street corner with loads of cash in the bank but no bills paid. I keep him informed and I keep my check register out for him to see...but he doesn't give a hoot.

When I had a bad asthma attack once,...I told him all the places where I kept stuff...

I am the one who invests in 401K's and Roth IRA's and other stuff. My husband has paid lip service to such stuff...but then doesn't follow through...my latest "test" was the Roth IRA. He claimed the guy I was using to set it up was an unnecessary expense...and he said he would "set up my own without the silly commission"....and 7 months later...he has done nothing.

I am trustworthy and I don't spend money willy nilly...but sometimes it would be nice to have help.