Prediction: Abramoff will turn state's evidence on Democrats. esp. Reid

[bklyncowgirl]

I've been enjoying the Abramoff scandal all along. I mean what's not to love: Indian casinos, corrupt congressmen, two faced Christian Coalition leaders, phony charities complete with a clueless lifeguard posing as the president of an international think tank, a gangland style murder and at the center of it all a couple of swindlers that sound like they come straight out of the imagination of the likes of Carl Hiaasen or Elmore Leonard.

But I'm beginning to get an uneasy feeling about this. Abramoff is a crook but he's a dyed in the wool Republican back from his college days in the Young Republicans. He's now set to sell someone else out in order to plea bargain his way to a few less years at Club Fed--someone big.

Is this dyed in the wool Republican really going to roll over on his fellow Republicans? Is he going to add another charge to Tom Delay's impressive collection of indictments? Or is he going to offer up someone else, someone who's been a thorn in the side of his party. Someone like Harry Reid who apparently received contributions from some of Abramoff's clients.

Reid may not have done anything wrong--it doesn't really matter whether he did or did not take bribes--the appearance of scandal is the important thing and the right wing noise machine will take care of the rest.

I'm hoping I'm wrong. I'm hoping that Abramoff will turn rat and sell out the whole corrupt bunch of rascals--but I just have this feeling....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Sighhhhh. If Reid Did Nothing Wrong Then There Is Nothing For Abramoff To

turn on him. Sheesh.

And a few dems may be caught up in it, though I have yet to hear anything substantial about any dem, but rest assured the main ones in the sights are in fact the repubs, period.

[bridgit]

2. let him try, he gave twice as much to republicans, bush already...

made the comment, "he was an equal opportunity donor" but that is simply not true; they all know, anyone with 1/2 a brain knows that that was just to give the impression that he wasn't shaking down republicans in particular.

[stevietheman]

3. A prosecutor won't prosecute only on the word of one person...

Abramoff would have to lead the investigators to *actual* corroborating evidence. If there is no such evidence re: Reid, then there's nothing to be concerned about.

[bklyncowgirl]

4. I hope you're right. nt

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Abramoff has no choice but to start telling the truth

Even with a plea deal he is going to jail. It is just a question of for how long? It's amazing what serious jail time does for a person. All of Jack's old friends are dropping him like a hot potato. Jack is only concerned about his personal ass at the moment. No Dems took any money from Jack. This is Republican scandal and all the Dems have to do is duck and cover.

[eleny]

6. Unless he gives up some big fish, he's worthless

Giving up some Dem who got peanuts and gave back even less in votes makes that sort of state's evidence worthless. So, I think this is going to be more about big repunks than Dems who got a few grand now and then.

Small potatoes won't make a name for the prosecutors involved here. And you can bet your bippy that they want to enhance their own reputations. They sense the way the wind is shifting and blowing.

[stepnw1f]

7. Lolol... I Doubt It

And you know what else... I hope every dirty piece of shit gets indicted. I don't care what the Party Affiliation is. Will a Dem get framed? I'm sure they are trying their hardest to implicate any every dem they can. The media will be kissing GOP ass to their own demise.

[NVMojo]

8. Reid has been against Indian Gaming since the last revision of the IGRA

in the 80s.

I'd rather think the reason he is in this is because dirty crooks like to help make everyone as guilty or look as guilty as they are. Taint. You know the word, don't you?

[bklyncowgirl]

9. I agree.

Reid has every reason to be against Indian gaming. As a member of the Nevada gambling commission he received death threats because he crossed some unsavory characters. It would also be perfectly legit of him to oppose Indian casinos because they take business away from his home state.

I do think though that they will try to tar him with this. It's the old muddy the waters trick. It also drives up the cynicism level--they all do it--a plague on both their houses.

by the way, I hope I'm wrong about this. Reid's been doing a good job as Minority Leader. That alone would make him a target.

[eleny]

11. Don't they have proof that Reid took money for being involved?

I heard the reports about his email asking where the heck the money was from the Native Americans. He was very interested in his cut. He tarred himself.

[RazzleDazzle]

20. Noope -- Reid is clean

I don't think he's an out-and-out liar and I saw and heard him say when one of those bright-eyed news talking heads tried to tar him and other Dems with that broad brush, "I've never taken any money from Abramoff...This is a REPUBLICAN SCANDAL." He was pretty adamant, and very clear that it wasn't going to tarnish the Dems.

I believe him.

Now, could something be manufactured or, as you're shamelessly doing, simply alleged via the basest of baseless innuendo? Yeah, sure, a lot of things are possible in that arena. But jeeze, don't add to them, eh? That's REALLY ugly IMO.

And if there ARE any Dems involved, I say string 'em up and hang 'em just as high as any Republican. I'm sick to death of corruption and shit-shod representation from our, um, "representatives" no matter what it's called. I want an end to it.

[eleny]

34. See my post #33

Yes, *Harry Reid* is squeaky clean, afaic.

[TahitiNut]

24. But that's part of the scandal.

Abramoff and his cronies have been bilking the tribes out of MILLIONS and then funneling the money to corrupt Repukelicker politicians who've opposed the interests of the tribes ... partly because Abramoff and his cronies manipulated tribal elections and found Quislings within the tribal councils who'd collaborate with them in the fraud.

Insofar as the tribal money, it's not been about actually getting favorable legislation but about defrauding the tribes.

It's a money-drilling (slant-drilling) operation purely intended to create cash flow for crooked GOP pols. They really didn't give a fuck about the tribes. "Monkeys."

[flyarm]

10. nahhh i read somewhere that abramoff is out of money..

he can no longer afford high priced lawyers..and scanlon is flipping big time..the only chance Mr. Repub Abramoff has is to turn states evidence...or he will face charges involving murder/soliciting a murder...he is facing a very long time in the slammer..and this is a man who has loved the finer things in life..he wants a get out of jail card..for a lot less time than life with no parole...and if he has the top notch goods on these rethugs..and he does not out them now..he is dead man walking with them free ...so to save his own skin ..he has to out them..if he is to live ..and not find suicide as his epitaph...and he has to take down the most dangerous to his own life!!

and no prosecutor worth his salt is going to let him plea without giving up the big kahunas!..remember they already have scanlon..and the three guys implicated in the murder...and one of the three is singing!!

big time!!

fly

[eleny]

13. Yop, there's no honor in theievs, as they say

He has to shoot for the moon. No pun intended. :evilgrin:

[Kingshakabobo]

17. I agree. If he gets caught in ANY lies his plea deal can be voided.

He has a vested interest in being 100% honest and forthcoming. They will play him and Scanlon against each other to verify testimony where possible.

I am concerned about who is prosecuting this case. Do we know anything about the prosecutor? The prosecutor is the possible chink in the armor.

[renate]

23. at least at one point in 2003 he was bouncing checks

"But by early 2003, Abramoff's private dealmaking had spiraled out of control. His religious academy was draining his income, and his restaurants were hemorrhaging money. He told Scanlon in an e-mail that February that he was at "rock bottom" and needed funds immediately. By the next day, he was frantic. "Mike!!! I need the money TODAY! I AM BOUNCING CHECKS!!!""
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10621077/page/5/

And he has told his lawyers he's broke:
"Within the past year, Abramoff began selling off assets such as his restaurants and has told his lawyers he is broke. He faces the possibility of lengthy jail sentences and stiff financial penalties that could be reduced if he cooperates."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10621077/page/7/

And here's a tasty tidbit from that page 7 link:
"Alan K. Simpson (R), the former Wyoming senator who was in Washington during the last big congressional scandal -- the Abscam FBI sting in the late 1970s and early 1980s, in which six House members and one senator were convicted -- said the Abramoff case looks bigger. Simpson said he recently rode in a plane with one of Abramoff's attorneys, who told him: "There are going to be guys in your former line of work who are going to be taken down.""

Happy New Year!!!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Abramoff only gave money to repukes

If he makes a plea bargain, he can't spin something for political gain, or the deal may very well be off. What you have to remember is that people like him have no loyalties except to themselves. He will cheerfully bring down as many repukes as it takes to lessen his sentence.

[eleny]

14. He gave big money to repubs and small money to some Dems

but I agree with your analysis. He's only concerned for himself.

[RazzleDazzle]

21. Okay, let's have it. Put up or shut up. Which Dems, and lnks, Please.

That's enough smearing our own side without proof. I don't think there are many if any Dems involved. You've said there are -- twice now, and one of them was a very blatant and ugly smear of Reid -- and I want proof.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nevermind. I see Captain Sunshine put it to ya, and was very kind and generous about it.

I want to say this: what you've done in this thread is simply irresponsible, and it really paints you in a very bad light. I hope you'll spend some time thinking about just how irresponsible it was and mend your wicked ways. I know for my part, you HAVE no credibility with me from here on out.

[eleny]

32. Cool your jets - Here's a link from the Wash Post. Argue with them

Democrats' Travel Costs Linked to Lobbyist
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/03/AR2005050301792.html

And if I *ever* read anything about Abramoff money to Dems with links - it was here at DU first.

[flyarm]

25. he gave no money to dems..get that straight!! n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

15. Bloomberg.com -"Abramoff gave nothing to democrats"

From
this article

"Between 2001 and 2004, Abramoff gave more than $127,000 to Republican candidates and committees and nothing to Democrats, federal records show. At the same time, his Indian clients were the only ones among the top 10 tribal donors in the U.S. to donate more money to Republicans than Democrats."

There's Bushs right wing meme out there which Faux has beat into the ground that Abramoff was an "equal money dispenser" , which is dead wrong.

Some Dems took money from Indian tribes represented by Abramoff, that they have returned.

Reid took funds from a group OPPOSED to Indian gaming, which would be logical since Las Vegas has a pretty big interest in Nevada.

So basically, bring it on.

[KittyWampus]

16. I am sick of DU'ers posting uniformed, stupid bullshit about Reid.

Reid, as far as anyone knows, has done NOTHING WRONG ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

Why are you posting this assinine rightwing bullshit, trying to muddy the waters for them?

Abramoff was laundering money among other things...

There is ZERO evidence Reid did any kind of illegal quid pro quo... and yet DU'ers are SALIVATING at the chance to cut Reid lose. To cast blame on him. To say "IF" Reid did this or that.

This is disgusting, but I'm sure the opening poster thinks she's astute and being oh so even handed.

:puke:

[DURHAM D]

18. Good comments. I get tired of those who can not

distinguish between legitimate campaign donations and "bribes". Some naive posters seem to think that all campaign donations are somehow dirty.

[flyarm]

22. There are ZERO Democrats who took Abramoff money.

i had this posted for several days and it was on greatest page...

please du'ers do not repeat the rethug talking points...we have enough of an uphill battle without carrying their water cans for them...if you are uninformed..don't post it..or do some reading before you repeat rethugs talking points..Senator Reid has come out voluntarily and said this is a republican scandal..he is not involved in it...the indians have a long history of giving to democratic campaigns legitimately...do not carry the bullshit for the liars on the right..

please read and educate yourselves ..before saying or carrying nonsence forward..
or go archive the congressional hearings of the indians chaired by McCain...the indians were under oath saying they were hoodwinked by abramoff and republicans..and even so much as shocked mcCain about it..the indians were so forward about their statments that repubs were involved...with no mention of dems!


this was my post from a few days ago..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5702459

There are ZERO Democrats who took Abramoff money.


lets stop this myth in its tracks...we must send this to every media..and everyone we know..and stop this before this b.s. takes hold!!
fly

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/28/1655/0100

Tue Dec 27, 2005

Just take a look at his listed donations on Open Secrets
here:
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=...

and here:

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?txtName=ab...

snip:

************There isn't a Democrat on the list.*************

It is true that some employees of the large lobbying firms he worked at and some of his clients gave to Democrats as well the GOP. These are the Abramoff-connected donations that we read about in the press. They are always separated from Jack by two or more degrees and most often the connection is a single thread.

The same is not true for the GOP.


snip:
The GOP Talking Points are out: Everybody does it and Abramoff gave equally to both parties. Hell, even George W. Bush himself has been trained to repeat them, but Bloomberg (and many others) have looked at the facts:


U.S. President George W. Bush calls indicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff ``an equal money dispenser'' who helped politicians of both parties Campaign donation records show Republicans were a lot more equal than Democrats.

Between 2001 and 2004, Abramoff gave more than $127,000 to Republican candidates and committees and nothing to Democrats, federal records show. At the same time, his Indian clients were the only ones among the top 10 tribal donors in the U.S. to donate more money to Republicans than Democrats.

Between 2001 and 2004, Abramoff joined with his former partner, Michael Scanlon, and tribal clients to give money to a third of the members of Congress, including former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, according to records of the Federal Election Commission and Internal Revenue Service. At least 171 lawmakers got $1.4 million in campaign donations from the group. Republicans took in most of the money, with 110 lawmakers getting $942,275, or 66 percent of the total.


please pass around and write to the media at once!!
thanks fly

[oasis]

26. ZERO Democrats took money from Abramoff. Coming in loud and clear. (eom)

[bklyncowgirl]

27. You're misreading my post. I admire Harry Reid. I believe he is clean.

I did not say that I believed that Reid had done anything wrong. I said I believe that he will be ACCUSED of wrongdoing. Those are two entirely different things.

I also believe that John Kerry was a war hero. It was true. The truth didn't help him against the Republican noise machine. The Republicans are going to spin this every way to Sunday.

If you don't think that they won't try to take down at least one of ours along with some of theirs, you are being pretty naive. The Senate Minority leader's a big fish. He's been a huge thorn in their sides and if they can find a way to try to take him down they will.

Harry Reid's a tough smart guy and if they go after him they're in for one hell of a fight.

[flyarm]

29. i was not replying to you..but

i do not want to be rude and point out who i was replying to...

fly

[flyarm]

19. read this............

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/28/AR2005122801588_pf.html

snip:

Two of Abramoff's former business partners -- Scanlon and Kidan -- have pleaded guilty and have agreed to testify about bribery and fraud in Florida and Washington.
Three men have been arrested in the Boulis killing. Two of the three were Kidan's associates; one of them is known to law enforcement as an associate of the Gambino crime family.

Another former Abramoff associate, David H. Safavian -- most recently head of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy in the Office of Management and Budget -- has been indicted on five felony counts of lying to federal investigators about his dealings with Abramoff while he was chief of staff at the General Services Administration.

Within the past year, Abramoff began selling off assets such as his restaurants and has told his lawyers he is broke. He faces the possibility of lengthy prison sentences and stiff financial penalties that could be reduced if he cooperates.
All these developments have added to the pressure on Abramoff to reach his own deal before the SunCruz trial begins on Jan. 9.

Alan K. Simpson (R), the former Wyoming senator who was in Washington during the last big congressional scandal -- the Abscam FBI sting in the late 1970s and early 1980s, in which six House members and one senator were convicted -- said the Abramoff case looks bigger. Simpson said he recently rode in a plane with one of Abramoff's attorneys, who told him: "There are going to be guys in your former line of work who are going to be taken down."

[autorank]

28. Abramoff is a pawn in the civil war between "management" factions.

This is "good government" Republicans versus "crooked" Republicans. The "good government" faction has been around forever. It branched off into two factions -- the reasonable version, make money but don't just steal it outright, and the crazy version which is wildly crooked and violent. The "good government" folks, most our country's wealth, can't take it any longer. They like the tax cuts but realize that Bush is just full scale theft for a few nut jobs. They're expressing their disgust right now and Abramoff will help deliver the message to Bush and his toadies, "Take a hike." I'm concerned too, always with these jerks, but I don't think that there will be trivial indictments coming out of this. There will be a listing of everybody who ever got a sky box ticket or trip on a jet with this guy. That will be bad but not world ending for our guys/gals.

Good point about staying vigilant.

[flyarm]

30. and then the bug mans russian stories will light up the Sky's as well!!

let the fireworks begin!!

ahhh yes the religious righteous are in for a hell of a ride!!

and do remember the bug man was one who basically stopped the congressional ban on human trafficing...

ohhh this is going to expose the worst of the hypocrites!!

ohhh martha...the bad guys are going to finally get it!!

and martha..it won't be a measly $42,000.

it will be millions and billions!!

and for the indians ( of which my husband and son are) i hope you have learned the rethugs are < not> your friends!!

cha ching..cha ching...

fly

[Marr]

31. Yes, he's a dyed-in-the-wool Republican. And their credo is "ME ME ME".

He's saving his own ass and selling out his compadres, and why wouldn't he? They're just crooks.

[eleny]

33. Oh godammit - I thought the OP was talking about Ralph Reid

:spank:

BUT - I still have read postings here - with links - that some Dems in Congress have received funds from Abramoff. You can kick and scream all you want. It may not change that if facts come out. I don't recall hyperbolic responses to those postings. And I'm willing to accept that lobbyists play both sides of the aisle to try and influence. But I would not readily accept that it was "even money". Not by a long shot. It would have to take admissions and proof in b&w for me to accept that as fact.

Apologies for raising blood pressures. I truly read the OP's posting and thought it was Ralph Reid who we know took Indian monies - and in fact demanded them when they were late.

[rasputin1952]

35. I look at this from a realistic POV. If there are D's that took money

from Abramoff, and they knew what he was/is, then I say go for prosecution.

I can see no gain for the nation by leaving some perpetrators out of the equation. It matters little to me if the individual is D or R, if they are crooked, they need to face the same situation we would face if we were in the position of they are in. Justice is justice, retaliation and 'vengeance' should not enter the picture; we are seeking justice here, and if there are D's that are/were involved they need to face what we demand of others.

Abramoff will squeal like a stuck pig; for all of the posturing, he is little more than a coward, he will not risk his own skin when there are others that can be sacrificed.

Just my 2 cents.