Don't ask your phone company if they sent your data to the NSA

[rpgamerd00d]

Ask them if they violated your contract by sharing your information without your consent.

Tell them that if they did share your information without your consent, then they are in breach of contract, and that you can sue them for every dollar you ever paid them, plus damages.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. Why not just wait

for the large ads that will be appearing in major newspapers coast-to-coast, inviting all those who believe their accounts were violated to join in the inevitable - and necessary - class action suits?

Right now, calling the companies is a big waste of time, since you're talking to people who haven't any information to give you, and, frankly, you're fucking with people who never did anything wrong. Those people are having horrible days because of calls like these, so don't do it. You won't accomplish a thing, except to screw up another human being who's powerless and not culpable.

Wait. Wait for the class action suits.

Then let's go for the real villains.

[pinto]

2. Good point. The person on the line isn't the responsible party.

I have AT&T and would sign on, if that's the procedure, to a C.A. Suit...

[WHAT]

24. Actually, I asked my company ...

today.

I wanted to know.

The person I talked to didn't know anything about it but went and checked. Her reply was in legalese...we didn't illegally give your information to anyone else, etc. Anyway, she was very nice and seemed more curious than harassed by the question. The reply led me to believe the communication companies are worried about the legal aspects of it.

People may have outsmarted themselves on this one...

[Hugin]

3. What? And get a $0.13 settlement like all the other CAs I've been in?

:eyes:

[ixion]

5. from what I understand, it's 1K per CDR

probably worth more than .13 cents. :shrug:

[Hugin]

8. *holds breath*

Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.

*begins rearranging space between his framed $0.05 A.O.L. check, his $0.13
Providian check, his $0.07 Microsoft check...*

[ixion]

10. lol... point taken

:rofl:

[NorCalDem]

16. It's not about getting your money back

it's about making the companies know that you are not happy with what they are doing. Who cares about the money, I'm worried about my freedom :D

[Hugin]

23. Well, that's why I'm taking "DIRECT ACTION" by using the automated...

Cancel account function.

Then they can continue to screw over people... I don't "offend" anyone
and everyone is happy.

[MazeRat7]

6. Exactly... examine, calculate, and execute.

And your point about not harassing other hard-working stiffs is not lost.

Thanks.

MZr7

[MemphisTiger]

7. Good luck suing the government

especially the NSA

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. You don't sue the government

heh heh heh

Surprise!

[MemphisTiger]

30. Their defense is the they were just following the law

and that's a pretty strong defense

[OldLeftieLawyer]

35. Actually,

they were conspiring to break the law.

That's hardly a good defense, don't you think?

[Karmageddon]

12. The key is not to bitch at the phone rep, but to cost AT&T money...

...by tying up the lines. You can do this and still be very polite to the phone person, assuring them that it is not them personally that you are concerned with, thanking them for allowing you to file a complaint, and wishing them a nice day.

I've been on that end of it, and frankly, if the person was polite and reasonable, they 1) never ruined my day and 2) made me happy to try to resolve the issue for them.

Just my humble opinion, but I say call them, don't bitch at the phone rep, just voice your concern and let them do their job (and collect their paycheck).

[OldLeftieLawyer]

17. Why is that the point?

What's accomplished by that?

And don't you have anything better to do?

Go positive, not negative.

Tying up phone lines?

Oy gevalt.

[Jack from Charlotte]

32. Headline, New Delhi.... "Phones all tied up." (nt)

*

[OldLeftieLawyer]

36. HAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

You just won the Beer Drinking PussyCat Award For Friday, friend:

[dogday]

18. I think there might be some kind of

terrorist label applied to trying to tie up line in a corp and cost them money... I know it sounds wild, but I think they approved that law not long ago... Just another way they are looking out for the people and our safety.....

[On the Road]

13. I Don't Think It's a Waste of Time

Anything that generates large volumes of outraged callers and service disconnects gets on the radar. I have heard nothing yet, but the companies will take notice of the public reaction and may consider reversing their position.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. Oh, sure

Yeah, the phone companies are traditionally moved to change their positions because of consumer outrage.

They're laughing at y'all, I got news for you. And their lowest-paid workers are having to deal with people acting like stupid spoiled children with nothing better to do than yammer about their rights being violated when they don't even know precisely what has happened.

Class action lawsuits will, perhaps, contribute to the maturation of people who think this kind of nonsense is productive behavior.

[On the Road]

27. I Have a Management Job for a Major Phone Company

I know that customer outrage has an impact. I don't expect a retraction or even an acknowledgment, but I do expect that a flood of calls will make them much more leery of fulfulling any similar requests in the future.

The class action suits are indeed a more effective tool. Those will hurt financially. Even if they fail, they will have an impact. Ideally, lawsuits and customer unrest will both happen and reinforce each other.

Traditionally, phone companies have taken a Qwest-like position on customer records. It's a very serious long-term position, and sharing call records is breaking a public trust. A lot of management was unaware of the NSA program, and is NOT on board with continuing to release customer records without a warrant.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

29. Not hardly

When NSA comes knocking, the guys at the top - your 'way up there bosses - are going to go along, because, don't forget, they need to lobby the government, too.

The management of today - your bosses - are not like the ones of old, don't forget. Neither is our government.

But, for now, THEY (the top guys) gladly went along without a warrant, and, let's face it, they've been doing it for a long time now.

You do good, though, and thanks.

[On the Road]

33. No, That's Not True

In the past, the former Bell companies have ALWAYS said no to the government without a warrant. This acquiescence is something new. Verizon's Seidenberg and Babbio (the #1 and 2 executives) have a Bell system background, so I'm particularly surprised at their response.

It was pointed out to me in the 90s that during the Newark riots, the Bell system took the unusual step of allowing the police onto the roof of the central offices to monitor the situation. That was depicted as a rare exception showing how reluctant the Bell system was to share their data and facilities with the government. When MCI used to ask for customer data, they would scream because it took two weeks to get legal approval even with a warrant.

Those situations are not exactly comparable, but they show how guarded the company was toward government (or judicially authorized) requests. This is a big change in direction, and if it bites upper management, I don't think the brave new world will continue.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

37. Not so

Go read up on COINTELPRO, going all the way back to the 1960s, and you'll find that Ma Bell was always very happy to cooperate with government at all levels, regardless of the legality of the programs.

COINTELPRO was just one of many. I wish I could back you up on this one, because you obviously are informed about some of the things that happen, but, alas, there is always corruption, there is always the backscratching, there is always the government and its ultimate power.

[On the Road]

38. You Have a Point --

I've heard about the Cointelpro involvement but don't know the specifics. Did the FBI ask the Bell system to allow snooping on antiwar activists? That might in some ways be comparable, in that it was a secret program designed to investigate supposedly dangerous people through extralegal channels.

What strikes me about the current situation, though, is the sharing of call records on millions of ordinary customers. As far as I know, that would be asbolutely unprecedented.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

39. The current situation is due to

the current technology.

There's this - http://www.pensitoreview.com/2006/05/12/cheney-and-rumsfeld-shielded-telecoms-from-domestic-spying-charges-in-the-1970s/ - too, which you might find interesting.

[On the Road]

40. Well, This is Interesting

Looks like hypocrisy at the upper level is nothing new. This is not accepted procedure.

Now these class-action lawsuits will have the story in the news on an ongoing basis.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

41. Ain't it fun?

When you find out that things aren't what they've been telling you they are?

Ain't it fun to be a real subversive, now that you're armed with information and facts?

Welcome.................

[Bjornsdotter]

14. Thank-you

...for the sound advice. :toast:

Cheers

[GodlessBiker]

26. I disagree. A polite expression of disgust is called for ...

the numbers of these calls will be tallied. The execs will get the message.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

28. To an entry level worker

who will do nothing with the record of the call.

It's hardly worth anyone's time.

Yeah, sure, tallied.

The execs?

Oh, honey, you have to find out more about how these things work. All that's going on right now is some middling harrassment of people who have jobs just like most folks, and who didn't have a thing to do with any of this NSA bullshit - and, sadly, probably don't even understand it.

So, why harrass?

People who do this, in my opinion, are simply acting out and wasting time.

[sendero]

34. Read your last line.

... that is exactly what you are doing.

There is nothing wrong with calling a company you PAY to provide you a SERVICE and inquire about your privacy. And if you truly think that the counts of these calls won't ripple up the management chain, you aren't qualified to talk about any business, period.

[Jack from Charlotte]

31. Calling the companies will keep 'em hoping in New Delhi all night. (nt)

*

[ixion]

4. if there were every a good reason for a nationwide class action

lawsuit, this would be it.

And it would be a great way to fight against Big Utility. :grr:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

11. Absolutely

And that's exactly - my prediction - what's going to happen.

Should be interesting.

But, it will also take years to settle, so people had better start drinking heavily now and getting out the BIG bongs in order to relax while they wait.

[nolabels]

15. The ACLU lawsuit was filed on behalf..............

ACLU Gains Support of Lawmakers in Court Fight Against Illegal Spying (5/11/2006)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: [e-mail]

NEW YORK - The American Civil Liberties Union announced today that it has received the support of several members of Congress in the organization's ongoing lawsuit challenging the National Security Agency's illegal domestic spying program. Led by Congressman John Conyers, (D-MI), the group of 72 legislators filed a friend-of-the-court brief on behalf of the ACLU.
(snip)
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/25536prs20060511.html

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. There you go!

Let the discovery begin!

And I'm still an ACLU volunteer attorney.

Ha.

[ixion]

25. Second that...

Ha, and add a :woohoo:

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. Are you suing you phone company?

[ComerPerro]

22. Good angle