Should National Guard be used for border security?

[Clarkie1]

Poll question: Should National Guard be used for border security?

As you've probably already heard, the announcement is coming Monday.

[savemefromdumbya]

1. aren't they mostly in Iraq?

:sarcasm:

[treestar]

23. Yeah, protecting us from terra, now we're scareder of the Mexicans who

come to steal that minimum wage job from us?

[MercutioATC]

2. For those who voted "no"....why???

That's exactly the sort of thing that the National Guard is supposed to do. It's a much more valid use than using them to supplement the military.

[lvx35]

6. exactly...its a lot more sane than having them in Iraq, whether you like..

..the idea or not! That much is undeniable.

[Bluebear]

15. Posse Comitatus

Which prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States.

[MercutioATC]

18. Doesn't have to apply. The National guard could be placed under

state control (as it usually is). Posse Comitatus wouldn't apply, in that case. (Yes, I know the NG is, by definition, under control of the state, not the nation, I'm just giving an overly safe solution).

[primavera]

19. What Bluebear said

Posse Comitatus is not some pointless, arbitrary prohibition. Law enforcement and warfare are not interchangeable functions. A border patrol agent is provided with at least some training in immigration law and nonlethal methods of apprehension; a soldier possesses no such training. Nor is the training with which the soldier is provided compatible with the essential purpose of the law enforcement officer: to enforce law with respect for the rights of the suspect, who may - but then again may not - be guilty of a violation of law. The alien crossing the border is not an armed enemy combatant seeking to inflict harm on US forces; that alien may indeed turn out to be a victim of persecution seeking political asylum in the US, asylum which we are bound, by our subscription to numerous international human rights treaties and conventions, to provide to bona fide victims of persecution. It is not with such delicate distinctions in mind that military units are trained.

[treestar]

22. Exactly, immigration laws are not criminal either. And the states

do not enforce it, so having them under state control would be meaningless.

[walkon]

20. Because it is a political

stunt under this administration. If a real emergency than I could support for a short time - but must boost border patrol if more manpower is truly needed. Repugs do not want to solve border problem - probably get some big buck contracts to cronies before their ship goes under entirely.

[SPKrazy]

3. It Would Be Better To Hire More Border Patrol

and not hide border security in military budgets

but we need border security, so whatever works is better than what we got now

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Will they be issued jackboots and taught German?

And, don't forget the lily-white sheets.

[shance]

13. Thank you***People fail to realize what is being used against Mexicans

at the border can just as easily be used against us.

[Swamp Rat]

5. Damn right!

We need our Louisiana National Guard to keep out the Busheviks!

[bigwillq]

7. I say yes

Isn't that part of their job? :shrug:
Enlighten me if I am wrong.

[Maestro]

9. See my question bigwillq. -nt

[bigwillq]

10. I am waiting for an answer too.

I guess I should've waited to vote but I voted yes anyway.

Border control, national guard...just someone do the job.

[primavera]

24. "...just someone do the job."

It sounds so easy the way you say it, as if all it took were for us to suddenly decide to do something no one had ever bothered to even try before.

A few quick facts for you. The Border Patrol already numbers over 44,000 full time employees, including 11,000 agents. They have a budget of $7.8 billion a year. They arrest and deport on average 1.7 million people a year, many of whom were subsequently found to have been in the US lawfully, some of who were even US citizens. Add to their numbers an additional 17,000 people working for the now seperate Immigration and Customs Enforcement department on interior enforcement and alien apprehension and their annual budget of $4.7 billion. So between the two that's what... over 60,000 full time employees and $13 billion a year. Just how many guys with guns is it going to take to make us feel safe from the dreaded illegal alien?

You know what I really find amusing about all of this is that Border Patrol has been increasing its numbers and budget steadily for many years now and what has it achieved? Illegal border crossings have actually increased. Wow, we must really want a whole lot more illegal aliens in the country to keep hiring more and more guys with guns given that all it accomplishes is to increase the flow of illegal immigrants. Didn't someone once define insanity as the incessant repetition of an action already known to not achieve the result desired? Maybe it's time we get a little ECT and considered an alternative to just continuing to hire more guys with guns. Like, maybe it would be helpful to shut down employers who recruit illegal aliens to work in their factories and hire alien smugglers to bring them across the border? Of course, that would mean we as consumers would actually have to put our money where our mouth is and stop giving all of our business to companies which offer discount prices on goods and services by cutting their labor costs. Nah, that's never gonna happen, we don't really want to fix the problem badly enough to give up our $3 pair of jeans or our $2/lb tomatoes, after all. Oh well, guess we'd better just hire some more guys with guns. Where's that National Guard again?

[Maestro]

8. I haven't voted yet but

isn't the border patrol supposed to do this job and not the National Guard?

[High Plains]

11. Bad idea.

Although legal under our eroded posse comitatus laws, it's a bad idea. These men are trained as soldiers, not civilian law enforcement. Remember Ezequial Hernandez? He was the Texas shephard murdered by an anti-drug Marine patrol in 1997? Oops. How many more of those do we want?

I think this notion of total border security is a chimera, but if we're going to throw more bodies on the line, they should be Border Patrol agents, not soldiers.

[shance]

12. Keep in mind with the Bush Administration: borders can be used to keep you

from leaving just as easily as being used to keep others from coming in.

Be careful of being so concerned about the borders.

The best security in the world is promoting fairness for everyone and not excluding others that want the same things we do.

[Inland]

14. NO. There should be a permanently deployed, properly trained force.

The nat guard is a stopgap, at best. They shouldn't be on long deployments here or in Iraq, which means BUSH had got to put up the FUCKING MONEY to do it RIGHT with PERMANENT, TRAINED TROOPS/POLICE and not just some citizen soldiers that he can uproot because they signed up for weekends and two weeks a year for EMERGENCY work.

[BlackVelvet04]

16. While it is legal for

the National Guard to perform this function as long as they are under the authority of the governor of a state, it is also legal for the president to nationalize the National Guard, thus effectively making them part of the national military. That is a clear violation of law. What's to keep bush from doing just that? You trust him? I sure as hell don't.

[Geek_Girl]

17. I voted no

I think the national Guard should be used for domestic national security not border patrol or for fighting foreign wars. They need to Hire and train more border patrol.

[Disturbed]

21. "They need to Hire and train more border patrol."

Anyone hiring Undocumented Workers should receive a one year jail term for each UW that they hired.

[primavera]

25. Any penalty for the consumers who support those businesses?

When you stroll through your grocery store and see tomatoes on sale for 99 cents a pound, do you stop and wonder what wages the pickers must have been paid for the store to be able to offer you tomatoes for that low price? Or do you just try not to think about that and buy the tomatoes anyway?

The problem is, many of the goods and services we purchase are seriously underpriced and cannot be produced for the prices we as consumers are willing to pay without cutting corners somewhere. And as long as we (and don't get me wrong, I'm just as guilty of this as the next person) get pissed off when a store tries to sell us goods at a fair market price and we go next door to the place that will sell us those same goods for a fraction the cost, we're a big part of the problem.