Where's The NRA and The Gun Nuts on this NSA Spying?!?!

[Yavin4]

It's okay for the govt to tap your phone, but not license your guns? Explain that logic to me.

[Inland]

1. It's OK, because terrorists use phones to kill, not guns. nt

[havocmom]

2. Pro gun folks in my area PISSED as hell about NSA spying

Just cuz they don't post on DU doesn't mean they aren't squakin and writin LTTE and Congress.

[MrBenchley]

3. Grover Norquist is on the NRA board

You really think they give a rats' ass about anything except gun industry profits?

You'll notice that when Katherine Harris needs to go dialing for dipshits, she whips out her pistol and heads for a shooting gallery to suck up to the trigger happy.

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/000633.php

[stepnw1f]

4. They Don't Give a Shit about Civil Rights

It's about playing with their toys and selling them to others to make a buck. I never bought into the their bullshit about the Constitution. Never seen somebody from the NRA speak out for gay rights? Or how about minorities? The NRA is nothing but a corpo-cult.

[MrBenchley]

5. You not only don't see the NRA speak out for gay rights

you don't see the phony gay gun owners group, the Pink Pistols, speak out for gay rights.

"The National Rifle Association's annual convention in Reno, Nev., degenerated on Sunday into a session of gay-bashing, with one commentator referring to anti-gun talk show host Rosie O'Donnell as a "freak" for her recent admission that she's a lesbian.
O'Donnell, who had a much-publicized 1999 tiff with actor Tom Selleck about his NRA support, is "not cool, she's the freak," said conservative commentator Debbie Schlussel, a frequent guest on "The Howard Stern Show" and Fox News.
Schlussel also referred to straight actor Jude Law, who she said admitted to hesitating before handling a gun for one of his films, as a "girly man."
Conservative pollster Kellyanne Conway complained that the media skips over gun-rights stories for its various pet causes, including reporting on gays. Gay issues "are not important to Americans," Conway said.
Grover Norquist, an NRA national board member and columnist for the American Spectator magazine, took a shot, too. He noted that it might not be as evident to the media that most Americans favor gun rights because "we don't have annual parades for gun owners so everyone can appreciate that gun ownership is an alternative lifestyle and look at how great we are." He also insisted that the liberals "don't want you (men) to date girls."
Each of these comments brought applause and laughter from a crowd composed mainly of middle-aged hunting and shooting enthusiasts, as well as from the panel moderator, former "Dallas" star Susan Howard. "

http://www.planetout.com/news/article-print.html?2002/04/29/2

Guess which person in that story ended up on the Pink Pistols' enemies list? Why, it was the only gay person mentioned. Go figure.

[stepnw1f]

8. What's Your Take on their "Naivety"?

Is it just a front? I think so... those I've talked to seem too intent on denying the facts. I'd say they are purposely avoiding the truth and throwing up straw-man arguments, to avoid the truth. They feed the very beast that kills directly. "But hey... their interpretation of the Constitution says it's ok...."

[MrBenchley]

9. They're phony astroturf....

You'll notice that they NEVER have a word to say on any gun owners' online forum about the rampant bigotry there.

They actually used to have a link on their website to the right wing shithead named Rostchek who whistled them up out of thin air...who in turn had an essay on his website chortling about what a "good trick" they were "on liberals" due to the principle of "cognitive dissonance": see, there are gay people and there are guns, and, well, that's about all there is to the principle...

[stepnw1f]

10. Interesting

The more I learn the more I know, the more others will know...

This issue just doesn't get defended well at all enough... especially in the mainstream media... geeeee.... no surprise there.

[MrBenchley]

11. One of many phony astroturf gun groups

For example, there's Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership--which has been cobbled together by the right wing Claremont Institute (hilariously, one of Claremont's "advisors" is Ed Grimley's hero Pat Sajak)....

There's also a phony cop group that the NRA put together to try to pretend that cops actually enjoy the chance that they might encounter some asswipe with a concealed handgun or assault weapon.

[xchrom]

6. i don't know -- but

i am all for spying -- heavily -- on the nra.

[MrBenchley]

7. I often think that if Americans knew even half the things

that the gun industry is up to, they'd demand the whole shebang be shut down.

For example, there's a gun dealer in California who sells a crime gun a day and has thousands of violations; the gun lobby and the GOP are trying to pass a bill to keep such information about crooked gun dealers hidden from the public.

http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/14991/

[Solon]

12. Disgusting...

I mean, those MFers need to be shut down, and shut down for good too. I'm not exactly a "gun grabber", not so much opposed to the 2nd Amendment, just that most of the regulations cities, states, and the federal government set up are fine by me. But I'm no extremist in this, I just figure that if some regulation goes too far, the courts are more than adequete to deal with it. At the same time, I'm usually opposed to CCW laws and other stupid shit like that. My state had a referendum on it, it failed, badly, so the Repukes in the Legislature passed it anyways, but I'm somewhat amused by the fact that you can't really carry a gun around here and go anywhere besides the shooting ranges. Every single business around here, from gas stations, grocery stores, to banks have a "no concealed weapons" sign outside the door.

On a more amusing note, I fully support our rights to Medieval Arms, after all the Second Amendment does cover those as well, Arms just means weapons, and I fully support the right of anyone to carry a sword, they can't exactly conceal it, can they? :)

[MrBenchley]

13. Speaking of "framing arguments"

as we were in another thread, you might like to know that "the 2nd Amendment" covers nothing but the right of states to have well regulated militias (such as have evolved into the National Guard)...as every court that's ever ruled on the subject, the Founding Fathers themselves, and consittutional scholars such as the ACLU all affirm. All else is far right wing horseshit.

Speaking of hypocrisy and dishonesty, while running in 2004 Chimpy went in front of the National Guard Association and said about what I said above...that the militia was the National Guard. The outcry from gun loonies? Non-existent.

And when Kindasleezy Rice announced the other day (in conjunction with Iraq) that government has the right to limit the individual ownership of arms, the NRA and gun loonies were as silent as the tomb....

By the way, the last two NRA Men of the Year? Dick Cheney (2004) and Tom Delay (2005). But then we need our guns in case we encounter tyrants...so we can honor them (snicker)....

[Solon]

15. Actually, that is exactly what I mean...

The NRA are a bunch of psychopaths, I think we can both agree with that. Personally I'm not opposed to guns, I said for the COURTS to handle the issue, as if the NRA would ever get a gun regulation thrown out of court. They CAN'T, that's the point, just being neutral on this issue, for political expediency for the Red States is a winning issue. Say you support the 2nd Amendment is a good way to win votes, no question about it, but that doesn't have to translate to supporting everyone getting a SAW mounted on their H2.

Besides, I do find it ironic that swords are more heavily regulated than guns are in this nation, they are covered under the Second Amendment too theoratically, so oddly enough, we are in full agreement, its probably only in tactics that we differ.

[MrBenchley]

16. Hell, pretty much every product sold in America

is regulated more heavily than guns...

[Solon]

17. True, and sad at the same time...

I mean, its sad that in many areas of the country its completely illegal to buy either swords or daggers, which have, in both cases, much less danger, over all, to public safety than guns do. For 2-4 grand, a dremel tool, and a days work, I can get an AK-47 that is properly modified for full auto, and can kill a hundred people in a mall if I wanted too in minutes with it. To get a sword, they sell them at renaissance faires once or twice a year, and are out in the middle of nowhere, though I will say that it kicks ass to see real life Jousting while there. Yeah, I'm a freak, so sue me. :)

This sort of reflects my attitude on "sport" hunting as well. I don't like hunting as a general rule, because it is largely asymetric, if you are going to go out to hunt bears, or deer, you shouldn't be carrying anything more than a knife, at least then, YOU have a sporting chance. :)

[MrBenchley]

18. No other civilized country suffers the level of bloodshed we do

because we let one of the scummiest industries on earth go unregulated...

I've posted this before, because it cuts to the heart of this issue:

What if you were thinking of taking up stamp collecting and you found that....

--the manufacturers and sellers of stamps, stamp albums, stamp reference books and paraphernalia were some of the scummiest companies on earth;
--the stamp collectors' associations attacked Democrats and liberal ideas on a daily basis, and honored the most corrupt Republicans, like Dick Cheney and Tom Delay, at their conventions
--every stamp collectors' on-line forum dripped with dittohead rubbish, racism and bigotry
--the stamp collectors lobby in Congress consisted of the most backward and corrupt thugs in the Republican party
--there was a public health hazard associated with stamp collecting, but the stamp collectinng industry had hired a racist crackpot to "prove" there was a health benefit.

Would you REALLY want to take up stamp collecting?

It's no coincidence that the worst administration in American history is also the most gun crazy.

[Hubert Flottz]

14. Ask Bush...

He sees all, knows all and if his boys miss ANYTHING, Gawd tells him the rest when nobody else is around to hear but Karl and his little War pResident!

[Yavin4]

19. My Position on Guns

I'm all for allowing people to have them. Just register them. That's all. You have a constitutional right to vote, but you have to register to do so. The same should be done with guns.

[ForrestGump]

20. NRA is a f***wit organization

While we're banning free speech and everything else once guaranteed under the now-irrelevant Constitution, we should ban those f***ers.

I'm not necessarily against someone owning a gun, but there're other ways to go about regulating them -- works fine in civilized nations -- and the NRA are (at least at levels above the mass membership) an evil bunch of doofuses.

[benEzra]

21. Pissed. Off.

At least the gun owners I know, and the ones I correspond with online.

There is widespread recognition that 4th-amendment-violating crap such as this will be used against US...

[Romulus]

22. obviously,

those guys of which you speak are a bunch of astroturf secret-apologists for Bush . . .:eyes:

[shadowknows69]

23. I'll bet no one asked them

The media is pretty good at avoiding opinions they know will hurt The Junta