Patriot Act Hell

[SparklyJr]

Just another example, I'm sure, of how this Patriot Act is hitting home.
H2S suggested I share this mess.

18 years old and I just moved to a new state, and visited my parent's bank to apply for a new bank account. I had a couple school IDs with my picture on them, a red cross ID and a hundred other things with my name on it. The Bank told me I needed a state-issued, photo ID to get an account, a new addition to the requirements thanks to the Patriot Act, the teller explained.

So, I went to the marvoulous and exciting DMV. Before going, I had my social security card sent to me and I ordered a new birth certificate from my birthplace (the documents were in another state with my father). After waiting a couple weeks for this, I made the half hour trek to the DMV, where I was dismissed and told my proofs of residency were not valid. My paycheck worked, but I needed something else, something that was on their "list." I don't pay bills yet, and my cell phone account is still in my mother's name, so not much "official" mail is sent to me. The DMV suggested I go to the library to apply for a library card, and instead of having the librarian give it to me, I should tell them to send it to me, thus creating a second, valid proof of residency.

So off to the library I went. When I got there, the library told me I needed a proof of residency for them, as well. I went home, got my paycheck and went back a few days later. They agreed to send it, but they let it sit at the library for several weeks. When I *finally* got the library card in the mail, the address on the envelope they sent me was hand-written, which is NOT okay with the DMV.

Now, I have my tax return, which is acceptable to the DMV as proof that I live here.. but the address is printed on the check, so I can't cash it until I make the trek to the DMV again.

Until then, since I have no bank account, it is very hard for me to cash my paychecks. Banks view my birth certificate, my social security card, my red cross ID, my school IDs, and my medical ID (along with everything else I have with my name on it, including mail that the DMV won't take, old credit cards, other cards with my name on it, etc) as secondary forms of ID. In order to cash my paycheck, I have to sign it over to someone who has a bank account with that particular bank, and even then, some will not do it because of their "no cashing third party checks" rule.

Arrrggghhhrghrkkfhgrhjwcgrrghhhhh.

I hate the Patriot Act.

(edited because I accidently put the whole thing in italics. oops.)

[Benhurst]

1. But at least you know you're free.

:sarcasm:

[BlueEyedSon]

4. And safe from TERRA

[abester]

2. Another example of the P. Act being a bureacrats heaven

Or a citizen's nightmare. I'd be very interested to see a serious and honest evaluation of that whole act since it was put in effect. How many terrorists caught? How much money spend? How many harrasments?

[MissB]

3. It has been 18 years since I turned 18.

There. Now you know how old I am. :D

Our DMV has had similar rules for years - I went through the same damned thing. Two proofs of residency, such as printed mail or utility bills. I think the only difference is the banks have tightened their requirements for what they need.

It is one big fucking circle of hell.

[SoCalDem]

19. I opened an account last week with a SS card and an expired DL

But then they know me :) and I promised to bring the new license in when it comes in the mail..

For a young person starting out, it's always wise to have a parent open the account with you as a "co-person" on the account, and then they just never use it..

I am doing this for my son since he's fighting with his bank right now. I'm depositing 5K for him but the account will be in MY name, and his.. he will have both Debit Cards so he can use them when he goes to World Cup in a few weeks..and when he comes home He'll just give me back the cards and I'll use it for my own account:)..(he will want his money first ...if there's any left :)...)

[Ezlivin]

5. Better you suffer inconvenience than the rest of us die a fiery death

Until we overturn this horrible "Patriot Act" that's all you'll hear from the supporters.

Just thought I'd beat them to the punch and add that they are all poop heads.

[babylonsister]

6. I don't know what the 'right' answer is, but as witnessed by

DHS and FEMA during Katrina, there's too much bureacracy and it just isn't working. :( Your experience sounds like a nightmare, and I don't understand why a birth certificate isn't considered a primary form of ID. It'll get anyone into and out of a foreign country (Mexico) coupled with a picture ID/driver's license. :shrug:

[Wickerman]

7. exactly

a birth certificate was good enough for me to get into the military back in the 80's - now it isn't good enough for a drivers license? Bureaucratic nightmare indeed.

[NJ_Lib]

13. Not exactly.... The only counties that will allow you entry...

... with only a birth certificate and a government picture ID, are Mexico and Canada... And that's provided you are entering from the US only... The rest of the world requires a passport, no exceptions...And I think Canada will be changing that by year's end too...

[NJ_Lib]

8. Well Sparkly Jr., your "rents" raised you well...

... At least you're questioning things and laying blame where it belongs, on your government... That's a lot more than I can say for many of your counter-parts... Kudos to Mr.& Mrs. Sparkly...

PS - You actually work for your money and are not looking for a handout? Gasp...

[Kutjara]

9. I thought I was the only one.

I recently moved back to the US after nearly 20 years in Europe (great timing, eh?) and am being made to jump through the same hoops. Because I'm currenly looking for a job, I can't get a bank account; no bank account means no permanent address; no permanent address means no driving license. Fortunately, my passport and EU driving license are ok for credit card purchases in stores (or I'd be really screwed), but I'm getting very irritated that I'm being run in circles when it's obvious I am who I say I am. My UK bank manager has even written a letter stating that I'm a good customer, with great credit and a reasonable amount of cash to deposit, not a terrorist, etc.. but this cuts no ice with the business avoidance officers at the banks I've approached.

So, I'm relegated to staying in hotels and renting cars until I can find a chink in the bureaucratic armor that is defending our country...from itself.

[tom_paine]

10. It's quite simple - Imperial Amerika is Sovietizing

FREE-MARKET Sovietizing, that is. But, other than a bit of economic philosophy, both Busheviks and Bolsheviks share similar attitudes towards subjects of the state, regardless of their lofty rhetoric of inclusion.

[Nobody]

11. Would your mother be a form of ID?

She can prove residency for herself and she can vouch for having been present at your birth.

[SparklyJr]

14. Nope, we tried that...

... when she came to the bank with me to try to get an account, and also when I tried to cash my check myself, and ALSO when I tried to buy ciggarettes at a 7-11, and they wouldn't take my IDs.

[rug]

12. It's worse if you buy cigarettes.

[SparklyJr]

15. Some places won't even give me free matches,

even though I have a picture ID and an ID with my birthdate on it, but no picture. Most places say it has to be a state-issued, picture ID with birthdate.

Smoking is unhealthy anyway. I guess I can thank America/the 7-11s for turning me away.
But.. the matches? What's up with that? Is that a law or just a rule at gas stations and 7-11s?

[matt819]

16. You know what's truly scary about all this?

In some cases it seems that the whole process relies on being able to get a library card. Now tell me that's not truly fucked up.

[Blackhatjack]

17. My Thoughts Exactly!! Librarian is the real gatekeeper for DHS!!

This is just another example of a monolithic unwieldy bureaucracy which has no clue how they are making the process impossibly difficult for the innocent, and easy to exploit by those who would do us harm.

[SparklyJr]

18. Seriously,...

Yeah!! My thoughts exactly. So.. My birth certificate and social security card are void as far as banks go, buuuutt... The ID solely relies on the Library because they only need one proof of res? The principle of it is all just very bizzare to me.

[Tsiyu]

20. I am sorry for your aggravation

We went through the same issue but employment-wise, with two here.

It was a nightmare trying to collect all the stuff the employer/DMV/Social Security office......wanted. Like a vicious circle.

Hopefully you'll get to be more well-known by your new bank and it will go easier for you in the future...

Patriot Act, Shmatriot Act. It's just another way to mess with the little guy so he doesn't have time to think about what a screwup the country's leader is.

[Sparkly]

21. The thing is... (This is SparklyJr's mother, Sparkly, typing...)

That bank has known me for YEARS, and H2S even longer. They've got plenty of our money, and they know us by sight and by name.

Her SS card, birth certificate, paycheck, photo-ID, etc. still weren't good enough for the bank, the MVA, or even the library -- crazy. I can't imagine what evil she could do by depositing $200 into a bank account!

We now THINK we have enough things together to get her her driver's permit. If she can get that, the rest should go pretty smoothly. (Are yours all straightened out now?)

CRAZY!! :crazy:

[Tsiyu]

22. Well, that's crazy then

I bank at a relatively "small" but highly-rated community bank. At the branches I most often use, I never have to show ID, and one of the tellers at the closest bank is a former co-worker of mine, so my kids can cash checks even without me present.

But that's small town life. Getting them employed by a large corporation never happened, because I had trouble gettin the correct documentation. They needed birth certificates AND picture ID, official State ones, which cannot be obtained without other documentation.

One of the kid's parents are deceased, so we had trouble getting a birth certificate from family and had to sned off for it. The saga went on and on and would bore you to tears, but sounds like your son is feeling the same frustration we felt.

Now, one is working at a local, upscale restaurant and the other is starting his own business. They finally got all of their documentation together but by then decided the corp world wasn't for them. The guy who tried to hire them said he would have an easier time hiring a citizen of another country with just their passport than he had trying to hire two guys born in Alabama and Georgia.

That bank sounds heartless and not much into customer service. You might consider changing banks. What kills me is that the little guys like my kids and yours are just getting more and more screwed by this system, and more and more inconvenienced. It's absolutely ridiculous.


:grouphug: for our frustration. You are not alone!