The two missing Americans are from the Oregon Nation Guard.

[Swede]

They were seen being led away by gun point. Does the other side think as little of the Geneva convention as this administration does?

[me b zola]

1. THEY SHOULD BE IN FUCKING OREGON!!!!!!!!!!!!

NATIONAL Guard, NATIONAL Guard, NATIONAL Guard, NATIONA Guard, NATIONAL Guard

[marmar]

7. Exactly...

and in New Orleans, Florida, California or anywhere else they've been needed in recent years. Not in Iraq, where they are targets. The ultimate cost of this war to our military should keep us all awake and shuddering at night.
:scared:

[me b zola]

9. I'm beginning to wonder...

I'm beginning to wonder if they are intentionally doing to our military what they are intentionally doing to our government---killing it so that it can ALL be replaced with private contracts. :grr:

[marmar]

10. The U.S. Army, brought to you by Blackwater...

I wouldn't put it past this crew.

[Robbien]

2. Chances are there is very little hope

those guys are still alive.

This is what comes from staying the course.

[me b zola]

4. I know

I hoping that they were experienced soldiers or Marines. I was even "hoping" (if that is the right term) that it may have been some weird black ops. It doesn't seem likely now. :(

It raises the question of why, in an area that they call "the triangle of death" would they post 3 National Guards by themselves? It seems as though the insurgents are doing a good job at recon and finding the week links to exploit. :(

RumDum MUST be removed :grr:

[cynatnite]

14. It was a classic case of dividing the forces....

in order to make them vulnerable.

----------

Ahmed Khalaf Falah, a farmer who said he witnessed the abduction of the Americans on Friday, said three Humvees were manning a U.S. checkpoint near Youssifiyah, about 12 miles south of Baghdad, when they came under fire from many directions.

Two Humvees chased after the assailants, but the third was attacked before it could move, he told AP. Seven masked gunmen, including one carrying what appeared to be a heavy machine gun, killed the driver of the third vehicle, then took the other two soldiers captive, Falah said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060619/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_missing_soldiers

This will be a tactic they'll try a few times and then the tacticians will have to make a choice. Either let the insurgents go and they'll attack another day or go after them without splitting up...that leaves the checkpoint unguarded.

Considering how stretched the military is over a long occupation, these people knew they found a way to attack US forces and still get a payoff.

[pnorman]

8. It wasn't just" staying the course"

It's what was done in our name at the Gitmo Dog Pond, Abu Ghraib, Afghanistan, and by third party torturers at undisclosed locations.

They could probably score a major propaganda win, if all they did was to "waterboard" the two captive, photograph them in demeaning poses, tar & feather them, and then release them. But somehow I feel they'll go further. THANK YOU, YOU FUCKING CHICKEN-HAWK PRESIDENTE!

pnorman

[cynatnite]

13. Staying the course also means...

a videotape of them will soon be surfacing.

The pit of my stomach has been in a knot since I first heard about it.

[CoffeeCat]

3. You make a point...

...that is so valid.

When we torture prisoners and treat people inhumanely--we will end up paying in spades.

You can't torture people or send them to a remote prison in Guantanamo---holding them indefinitely, charging them with nothing and most likely, torturing them--without consequences.

I hope these soldiers will be returned safely, without incident. If our soldiers are harmed, the fault definitely lies with their brutal captors.

However, we have set a horrendous example and we have treated the Iraqis like animals (Abu Graib). I'm sure the Haditha publicity doesn't help either. When we treat people inhumanely and act like animals--we are more likely to incur the same.

My thought and prayers are with these soldiers.

[gratuitous]

16. I'm going to guess

That if these guys are tortured and killed, like Tom Fox of Christian Peacemaker Teams was, then the popular media will suddenly develop collective amnesia about Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, Kama Ado, Fallujah, and any number of other atrocities that this could be payback for, and it will be time to start banging the jingo drums and the airwaves will be filled with how we need to teach these heathen motherfuckers a lesson.

Look for the 101st Fighting Keyboarders and the 82nd Chairborne Division to be leading the rhetorical charge.

[CoffeeCat]

17. I think it will have the opposite effect...

Most American do not support this war.

Most understand that war was based on lies, and that we shouldn't be there.

Watching young American soldiers die at the hands of their captors---will only remind people that we are over there making NO progress and that we shouldn't have gone in the first place.

I think most people are figuring it out--that this "insurgency" was cultivated by our presence and it exacerbates with every minute we spend on Iraqi soil.

We need to get the hell out now, and every US casualty is a complete tragedy--because these young men and women are fighting for an Administration who lied their way into this war and has no viable strategy for success.

If our boys are held and Americans see images of them being held captive--it will only ignite further anti-war sentiment. BushCo knows this.

Just look at the CNN page. This story is NO WHERE to be found on the front page. However, there IS a warm-fuzzy, puff piece about the lovely cooperation between Iraqi and American soldiers--as they try to crush the insurgency in Ramadi. BushCo obviously wants a media blackout on this story--and CNN (spineless kow towers) are all too happy to oblige.

[OzarkDem]

18. Its why the military doesn't condone torture

Its an ineffective interrogation method and it invites retaliation when our troops are captured.

Why is the military allowing its own rules to be broken?

[Bluebear]

5. And? They're only numbers, remember.

:(

[jazzjunkysue]

6. watch the msmedia downplay this.

This is the moment I'm glad I was standing in front of the UN on a february 15th in 20 degree weather with my no war sign.

At least I know I tried.

I emailed and emailed the media and my legislators. I tried. I started a progressive group in my local county and went to alot of protests, begging the media to cover them.

I tried.

I talk to anyone who will listen, getting into trouble at work and with my family.

I tried.

At least I hope these two men know some of us didn't want them there.

So, Rumsfeld's gonna find them, right?

Gonna wish we'd fired him and let gore be president.

[Arugula Latte]

19. Oh, but see, the media has a more IMPORTANT story to cover --

Bush's HUGE bounce from the Iraq photo op and from Rove walking ... Bush is the Comeback Kid and the Republicans are actually going to do WONDERFULLY well in November, didn't you hear?


:grr:

[jazzjunkysue]

20. Sorry about your 2 kids. We tried to prevent this.

[Igel]

11. The otherside isn't a signatory to the

Geneva Conventions, and what they think of them depends, at least in part, on who they are.

If Baathists, they think little enough of them. Note the conduct of the Baathis regime during the Iraq-Kuwait conflict, or the Iraq-Iran conflict.

If clan-based fighters, the code they follow is primarily culture-based, and not circumscribed by anything that came out of Western wars based upon a code of war drawn from Enlightenment thought. Honor and money will do the trick, if their honor can even be reclaimed by simple cash and US humiliation.

If Islamists, they despise them as being man-made creations and look to a far older code. The GC are, at best, irrelevant to their conduct; to the extent they lay claim to moral virtue, they're evil. Theirs is honor, plus (self-)righteous war. Takes more money to buy off religious scruples, if it's even possible.

If the hostage-takers are simple criminals, in which case simple money will do.

But money won't be offered. Can't be. Shouldn't be, by our cultural code, regardless of what their cultural code probably says is a way out. It's unlikely that local informers will come forward; the code against outsiders will trump money, and fear of the insurgents will reinforce that.

Remember all the talk about asymmetrical warfare, and how some dorks keep claiming that freedom fighters with limited abilities are somehow entitled to disregard the usual rules of war?

[Swede]

12. What you sow in anger.

You shall reap in tears.

[jazzjunkysue]

15. Amen.

[Igel]

23. That implies retribution, and somehow

the behavior of the Iraqi and Afghan forces is contingent on US violations of the GC. That seems a surprisingly self-aggrandizing view.

It's as strange as the RW view that the soldiers at Abu Ghraib were angry, and, well, the Iraqis merely reaped what they sowed. Bah. The Americans were adults, and responsible for their actions.

The Iraqis aren't children, needing absolution by their superiors.

[Bandit]

21. Hmmm Post in LBN says they were from 101st Airborne

That is not a National Guard unit...

[Vogt]

22. Their respect for the Geneva Convention

is probably as scant as that of the bush junta. I feel sorry for those guys. They signed up for the National Guard and now they are in the hands of al-freackin' Qaeda?? Something is terribly wrong.

On another note, if by chance private contractors, aka mercenaries, are captured on the ground, are they eligible to be categorized as "illegal combatants" by the enemy, and therefore eligible to be imprisoned indefinitely and tortured as a matter of course? If anyone knows anything on this, please shed some light.