Question for Hillary people. Has she changed much?

[LittleClarkie]

It the time you've spent Hillary watching, have her positions changed very much? Have you ever been surprised by a positions she's taken, thinking that she's leaned more right or left than you expected?

Do you see her now shifting to the right in preparation for a presidential run. Or is she who she's pretty much always been?

It occurred to me to ask because as a Kerry person, I encounter the "he's only saying this because..." syndrome quite alot, when I can see the footprints by which he got to where he is.

I know that Hillary was a Goldwater Republican at some point, so it also occurred to me that she's likely always been more Conservative.

And it occurred to me that alot of what I THINK I know about her has been fed to me by the MSM. I thought I knew Gore too, til the Daily Howler let me know differently, and early on I thought I knew Kerry til I got to know him as well.

So... what say you who know her best. What do you see? What is the reality as you know it.

[LostinVA]

1. I don't think she's changed at all

She was always a "Goldwater Girl" to some extent, with strong, positive positions on many social justice issues (NHS, gay rights, women's rights, children's rights). I personally think she's always very much been what you see is what you get. And, although I disagree with her (very much!) on certain things, I do think she has been unfairly demonized by the Right... and by some people on the Left -- and that's why the RW yearn for her to run...

[LittleClarkie]

2. So in some ways the "run to the center" that some Repubs say they see

is really just them noticing her actual positions, if you know what I mean? They've always portrayed her as being such a lefty because of her health care plan.

[LostinVA]

3. Exactly -- she's never been a "Lefty"

She has been progressive on certain social issues, which is fantastic, but she is definitely not a Progressive. I think they are just once again "picking" on her to help them.

For the record, I'm a Social DEmocrat, and HRC is way too conservative for me on most issues!

[Warpy]

6. They call her a left winger for the same reason they called

her husband a left winger: they're ignurunt and proud uvvit.

She's a CONSERVATIVE, always has been always will be. If you love conservatives, if you love the dogma of free trade, if you love corporate supremacy and if you love offshoring, you should love Hillary Clinton.

Otherwise, look elsewhere.

[paulk]

18. she voted against CAFTA

how does that fit in to your perception of her on free trade?

Do you know what her positions on the issues are? Do you really know how she's voted?

Or are you just repeating what you hear on DU?

How does a "conservative" get a 95% lifetime liberal rating from ADA?

How does a "conservative" get a 100% rating here -

http://www.drummajorinstitute.com/congress/outerenvelop...

a rating shared with only 8 other Senators?

[paulk]

4. who is Hillary?

It seems most Americans don't view her as "liberal"

from Rasmussen 6/15/06

"Rasmussen Reports began conducting the Hillary Meter surveys every other week in early 2005. At the time, the Senator was making a concerted effort to develop a more moderate political image for herself. In January of 2005, 51% of Americans viewed New York’s junior Senator as politically liberal. That number dropped quickly to the 45% range by mid-year. Since then, however, the number viewing Clinton as politically liberal has remained quite stable."

yet...


She has a lifetime ADA rating of 95%, better on the liberal meter than both Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, often indentified as our most liberal Senators.

She scores 100% on middle class issues according to this:

http://www.drummajorinstitute.com/congress/outerenvelope_senate.htm


------------------------------


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She's a politician. She often says one thing and does another.

I tend to judge politicians on their votes, not their rhetoric.

[LittleClarkie]

5. Thanks Paul

I'm just trying not to make the same mistake with her that others often make with Kerry. Keep my tiny little mind open and all that.

[BayCityProgressive]

7. I would say by

looking at her past and the issues she cares most about, she is kind of a new Left. She worked on the McGovern campaign and wrote her college thesis on the radical Saul Alinsky. She supports universal healthcare, and despite what some uninformed people think, the Clinton's did not try to kill single payer care. They were trying to come up with something that would be fillabuster proof and pas both houses. Obviously single payer wouldn't have done that. According to Senator Wellstone in his book "concience of a liberal", the Clinton's wanted universal care no matter how it was created. It could be reformed afterwards. Hillary also urged Bill to veto the first two welfare reform bills congress sent to him. I would also say she is liberal on education and children's issues. I do not agree with her war stance and I think she is calculating and overly ambitious....but I don't see why that should seperate her from most of our other "representatives" lol. She is also very liberal on tax issues. She has not supported even one of the Bush tax policies.

[radwriter0555]

8. Yeah, she's a republican now. She used to be a democrat. She sold out

the democrats for a shot at the white house.

Screw her and her sell out husband. They could have changed the world and saved everyone. Now, she's nothing more than a republican mouth piece.

ANYONE who claims bush is a good guy gets no quarter from me.

ANYONE who goes on tour with poppy bush has lost ALL my respect.

[LittleClarkie]

11. What attracted you to this thread, considering you don't appear to be a

"Hillary person"?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, somehow I doubt the Clintons ever had enough power to "change the world and save everyone."

[radwriter0555]

12. I was a "Hillary person and a "Bill person." They were two of the

brightest hopes for the future of the USA.

When they aligned with the bush administration, they sold out.

To pretend they've done anything else is to be in complete denial. There are no excuses for kow-towing to the bush regime. None at all.

Bill Clinton was hands down the most intelligent and charismatic world leader seen in a century. He did more to bring the promise of hope, peace and prosperity to a generation than any President in US history.

He is still loved the world over, and was even more so back in 01, 02, 03... He could have stood up and loudly denounced the bush invasion and occupation of iraq and it would have rallied people the world over to stop it. I have absolutely no doubt at all that his strong words and his actions to rally and lead the entire world against the criminal actions of the bush administration would have stopped them in their tracks. He had that much power.

But, sadly, he didn't. Instead he sat quietly and let it all unfold. Bill is now cheery pals with bush senior; Senator Clinton even endorsed the invasion and still supports bush to this day. I can't forgive them for that. Real democrats like John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, John Edwards, Al Gore, they have the courage to openly oppose the bush regime. Thank goodness for them.

You have to realize that it won't be an American who stops the bush regime. Just like it took a united global effort to stop hitler, something of an even larger scale will be required to take out the bush regime... They're going to be around for a long, long time.

[LostinVA]

13. She hasn't sold out at all, that's the point

She hasn't changed at all. And, she and her hus=band are not the same person. She wasn't President, he was. She didn't go on tor With GHWB, he did. I would actually bet that she is more "lefty" on social issues than he is. I would bet she wouldn't have signed DOMA.

[radwriter0555]

15. She supports bush and the occupation of iraq. I have no interest in ever

supporting her again. She betrays every single American with these words;

"...the Democratic senator from New York, Hillary Clinton, came forward to praise Bush at a public appearance in Washington. In a speech at the National Archives on her political career, Mrs. Clinton said of Bush: “He is someone who has a lot of charm and charisma, and I think in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, I was very grateful to him for his support for New York.”

snip

Indeed, her praise for Bush came just a day after it was revealed that the reactionary Australian-born multi-billionaire media magnate Rupert Murdoch is backing Clinton’s re-election campaign and will this summer host a fund-raiser for her by his News Corporation, Inc.

Defending her new-found friendship with the owner and operator of the right-wing political sewers known as Fox News and the New York Post, Clinton declared, “He’s my constituent and I’m very gratified that he thinks I’m doing a good job.”

Millions of people in New York and around the country consider Bush and his cabinet a gang of criminals and Rupert Murdoch a malefactor of great wealth who has done more to poison political discourse in America than virtually any other individual. But not Hillary Clinton: She praises the one and rejoices in the political support of the other.


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/may2006/hill-m11.shtml

[BooScout]

9. She hasn't changed at all....

She's a centralist. Plain and simple. Sometimes she's to the right and sometimes to the left but she hovers near the center. If she decides to run, it is something that will make her very attractive to a lot of voters (except the rabid Hilary Haters that seem to skulk here at times).

I am a far left liberal.....and would vote for her if she receives the nomination. Ideologically I prefer Feingold, but I am realistic enough to believe he probably would be unelectable in a national election at this point in time. As far left as I am......I would also support her before I would support Kerry.

Now if Al Gore throws his hat in the ring........I would throw all my support behind him in the primaries.

[SaveElmer]

10. She has always been left of center...and still is...

She has a very progressive voting record

She attempts to appeal to the center in some of the rhetoric she uses...but hasn't fundamentally changed her longstanding commitment to women's choice, the environment, civil liberties, labor issues etc...all areas where she gets very high marks from advocacy groups.

[LostinVA]

14. Bingo -- said it better than I did n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Politicians move to where they they think the votes are.

Hillary is trying to justify herself as the voice of the "middle".

Kerry has moved to the left because he needs it to challenge Hillary.

Politics as usual.

[Lady President]

17. Elected Official vs. Private Citizen

I consider myself a Kerry person too, but I've followed Sen. Clinton's years and I do respect her....

I feel that she was elected by presenting herself as slightly left of center. She has held true to the platform that got her elected. She is still an strong representative of civil rights which keeps her in my good graces.

Early in Pres. Clinton's term it was very clear that she championed a major health care overall. She has drifted right and away from universal health care which is a shame.

Personally, I think the MSM is pissed that a Dem. woman can raise so much money-- that's Republican man territory.