Do we need another trial to recognize that Andrea Yates is insane?

[NNN0LHI]

I don't. Anyone who would do what she did to her children without premeditation or for any motive such as monetary gain has to be insane either now or at the time of the murders.

Sane people don't normally go around killing their children for sane reasons. Do they? At least I would like to think that they don't.

Am I missing something here?

Don't our laws and court system ever allow the application of common sense?

Don



http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-06-26T193226Z_01_B129450_RTRUKOC_0_US-CRIME-MOTHER.xml

Texas mother on trial again for drowning her children

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Prosecutors charged that Andrea Yates was sane enough to know she had done wrong when she drowned her five children five years ago, as the retrial of the Texas woman got underway on Monday.

In their opening statement, Yates' attorneys argued she was so mentally ill she thought she was helping her children when she drowned them in their Houston home. snip

Testimony showed she had been treated in mental hospitals on several occasions for severe postpartum depression after the births of her children and just two days before killing them had been told by a psychiatrist that she needed to "think happy thoughts."

[MADem]

1. Well, the prosecution lied their ass off, so she's entitled to one

Quite frankly, I think they oughta work a deal to keep her in the psych ward all her live-long days. It's where she needs to be.

[Horse with no Name]

2. It seems there is a disconnect with the press

I have absolutely no idea why they keep trying to shove postpartum depression as her diagnosis.
She was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis--not only once, but twice.
There is a world of difference in the two diagnoses--such as the difference in a hangnail and an amputated foot.
This woman was certifiably insane. She was documented insane. To argue otherwise...is literally insane.

>>>>snip
First recognized as a disorder in 1850, postpartum psychosis is a very serious mental condition that requires immediate medical attention. Interestingly, studies on the rates of the disorder have shown that the number of women experiencing postpartum psychosis haven’t changed since the mid 1800s.

What Is Postpartum Psychosis?
While it is the most extreme form of postpartum mood disorders, postpartum psychosis is also one of the rarest. Usually described as a period when a woman loses touch with reality, the disorder occurs in women who have recently given birth. It affects between one and two women per 1,000 women who have given birth.

Unfortunately, though many women with the disorder realize something is wrong with them, fewer than 20% actually speak to their healthcare provider. Sadder still is the fact that often postpartum psychosis is misdiagnosed or thought to be postpartum depression, thereby preventing a woman from receiving the appropriate medical attention that she needs.

Women who do receive proper treatment often respond well but usually experience postpartum depression before completely recovering. However, without treatment, the psychosis can lead to tragic consequences. Postpartum psychosis has a 5% suicide rate and a 4% infanticide rate.

Postpartum Psychosis Signs
Although the onset of symptoms can occur at anytime within the first three months after giving birth, women who have postpartum psychosis usually develop symptoms within the first two to three weeks after delivery. Postpartum psychosis symptoms usually appear quite suddenly; in 80% of cases, the psychosis occurs three to 14 days after a symptom-free period.

Signs of postpartum psychosis include:

* Hallucinations
* Delusions
* Illogical thoughts
* Insomnia
* Refusing to eat
* Extreme feelings of anxiety and agitation
* Periods of delirium or mania
* Suicidal or homicidal thoughts

Who Is At Risk?
Women with a personal history of psychosis, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia have an increased risk of developing postpartum psychosis. Likewise, women who have a family history of psychosis, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia have a greater chance of developing the disorder. Additonally, women who have had had a past incidence of postpartum psychosis are between 20% and 50% more likely of experiencing it again in a future pregnancy.

Causes of Postpartum Psychosis
Experts aren’t exactly sure why postpartum psychosis happens. However, they do offer a variety of explanations for the disorder, with a woman’s changing hormones being at the top of their list. Other possible reasons or contributing factors include a lack of social and emotional support; a low sense of self-esteem due to a woman’s postpartum appearance; feeling inadequate as a mother; feeling isolated and alone; having financial problems; and undergoing a major life change such as moving or starting a new job.

Treating Postpartum Psychosis
Postpartum psychosis is considered to be a mental health emergency and therefore requires immediate attention. Because women who suffer from the psychosis are not always able or willing to speak with someone about their disorder, it is sometimes necessary that their partner or another family member help them get the medical attention they need. The condition is usually treated with medications, typically antipsychotic drugs and sometimes antidepressants and/or antianxiety drugs. If a woman is thought to pose a threat to herself or others, she will likely be hospitalized for a short time. Many women can also benefit from psychological counseling and support group therapy. With proper care, most women are able to recover from their disorder.

http://www.pregnancy-info.net/postpartum_psychosis.html

[NNN0LHI]

3. As a layman I don't know postpartum depression from postpartum psychosis

Thank you for that clarification.

Don

[Nikki Stone 1]

11. EXCELLENT POST, Horse with no Name . A MUST read for anyone interested in

this case.

Wish I could recommend your post. :)

[Horse with no Name]

13. Thank you

It is much more sensational press not to report the facts on this case.
However, people really need to be reminded that she was diagnosed with this affliction BEFORE the killing of the children, and not after so this diagnosis wasn't given merely to provide defense for a crime.
Andrea Yates had absolutely no business being the primary caregiver for any of these children in her state of mind. Her husband knew how sick she was.
The Yates had the financial resources for these children to be in school and in daycare during the day so that she could have a chance to recover.
It was a selfish decision made by a religious zealot to leave his children in the care of someone who had a VERY high chance of committing infanticide. In fact--as far as I am concerned, this is the only criminal act in the case.
The fact that she was a white, upper middle class fundamental Christian shouldn't have any bearing on the facts of the case. She was mentally ill.
It is a travesty to compare a crack addicted black woman to her. A person on crack makes the decision to alter their consciousness. Andrea Yates did not make that decision. Her brain did.
However, if the comparison is that we have a justice system for black and white, rich and poor--then yes, I concur. However, the fact that this disparity exists should be no more of a burden for Andrea Yates to bear no more than her mental disease.(not directed at you--to some of the other comments in this post)

[fudge stripe cookays]

4. Her husband's the one who should be on trial THIS time.

What a selfish, self-involved sperm donor. That's all he is. Simply a penis with a brain, obsessed with pro-creating, even though he doesn't have to do any of the work after it is done.

Anyone who would do what he did in the face of that woman's psychosis is a monster.

[Horse with no Name]

5. Agreed. N/T

[moobu2]

6. She’s no more or less insane

Than anyone else that kills someone. But she will be treated differently because she’s a female Christian.

She thought she was sending her kids to heaven by killing them before they grew up and sinned and landed in hell for eternity. Is that insane? A lot of people believe you go on living somewhere, over the rainbow, after your body dies or some such silliness…personally, I think they’re all insane to some extent and there’s a church on damn near every street corner where I live where you can hear some of the craziest crap imaginable, similar to what Andrea Yates thoughts were…She just took her religious beliefs to it’s most logical extreme conclusion. But she’s no more crazy or no less crazy than all the crazies in church on Sunday talking about Jesus coming back to life, that you literally go on living after you die, that woman was created from a rib bone or that the devil is invisibly lurking all around you screwing your life up etc…or whatever.

Andrea Yates should be thrown in jail for the remainder of her life, just like a crack head mother would be if she killed her kids, because, we shouldn’t be treating people differently depending on their religion or skin color. Like that (white) pastors wife in Alabama who shot her husband in the back got to get out to attend his funeral and was treated so special.

They’re all bat shit crazy if you ask me, but she’s no crazier than any of the rest of em. My opinion.

[Midlodemocrat]

12. I disagree with that. Not all murderers are clinically insane.

She is. She was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis twice. She was a very real threat to herself and obviously, her children. It seems that no one stepped in to help her.

Postpartum psychosis is very serious. Contrary to what that asshat Tom Cruise says, it must be treated with psycho-tropics. The hormone dump that occurs after birth is something that a lot of women can't regulate without assistance.

It isn't the 'baby blues'. It is far more dangerous.

[librechik]

7. yes, apparently Texas failed to recognize that obvious point.

she deserves another trial to change her sentence from "guilty" to "insane." She needs treament, not jailtime.

[moobu2]

8. In an ideal world

Yes, she deserves treatment and reintroduction into society (after a complete hysterectomy that is). We should medically treat all murderers and criminals and give them a chance at a normal life because all criminals have psychological problems to some extent. But, we don’t treat other murders or criminals (normally), so, I don’t think we should treat her any differently than say a crack head killer or a drunk driver who kills multiple people and so on.. She murdered 5 children.

I just don’t think she should be treated any differently than any other murderer who killed 5 people, not until we start treating all criminals for whatever psychological problem that led them to commit whatever crime they did etc...Andrea Yates will be treated differently because she’s white, a woman, and a Christian. She hit the trifecta so she’ll be out in just a few years.

[KoKo]

9. Religious Right attacks a Schizophrenic Woman and make her

out to be just a "bad Mom." One of those millions of "bad mom's" the right wing hates.

My own mom was schizophrenic and tried to kill me and my brother (I don't talk about stuff like this on DU...but felt it was important to do it here.)

My Mom ended up in a Metal Institution for decades. She didn't know what she was doing. She was Mentally Ill.

The Religious Right knows know bounds. I guess they don't have any problems in their families that their fake belief in Jesus can't overcome....:-(

[dsc]

10. had she been a black crack addicted mother

as opposed to a white religion addicted one, she would have been on death row by now. I agree she is likely insane but frankly I am tired of seeing such a disparity in the treatment of one class of people vs another class of people.