I'm Tired of the Right AND Left Putting Words in My Mouth

[MannyGoldstein]

Why does everyone put words in my mouth?

Whenever I post on the Righty sites, people put words in my mouth. I can state a simple fact, like US health care is the most expensive in the world, or that Baghdad alone now has more murders each day than the entire US, and all of the sudden I get accused of loving al Qaeda, Stalin, and Mao, and hating US troops, America, puppies, and God. And so forth.

Today I posted on DU that Hezbollah was firing hundreds of missiles at Israel, and if Lebanon couldn't stop them than Israel had a reasonable reason to act. Because of this, I've been accused of supporting the war in Iraq, wanting to bomb Mexico, and wanting to solve all problems through force. And so forth.

Just because I believe that self-defense is sometimes necessary does not mean that I want to go out and kill anyone that crosses me. In fact, I'd rather be nice to people - it usually works - but not always. I happen to think that being nice to Nazi Germany did not work well, and that our involvement in WWII was a necessary evil. I believe that the truth is usually in the middle - not the extremes.

No wonder this country is so screwed up - nobody can hear a few words without conjuring up an entire imaginary conversation. How 'bout we all stop painting whoever disagrees with us on any issue as Satan, and we listen a little bit? If you believe that Israel is totally wrong-headed, or that they're going overboard, then make the point. But please don't use my view on a single issue to construct a fantastic model of my entire belief system!

(This is not to be construed as my implying that the Bush administration is not satanic - they truly are.)

[uppityperson]

1. fact check here:Hezbollah was firing hundreds of missiles at Israel

link?


ps, there are people who will attack everywhere. Please do not take the words of some to mean the words of all.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. > 100 Last Friday Alone

I'm unable to find any cumulative count, but more than 100 were fired last Friday alone.

[uppityperson]

21. thanks for the link.

appreciate it.

[Minnesota Libra]

2. My support of Israel has brought about.........

.....a variety of names, innuendos, and just out and out hatred. As I pointed out on another thread along this basic line, the only difference between the extremes of the far left and the extremes of the far right is the direction on the political scale they originate from.

[ixion]

3. key phrase: "self-defense"

I, for one, don't see it as a case were Israel needs to 'defend' itself from anything that requires a massive bombing campaign of Beirut.

Now, see, I just disagreed with you and didn't even call you a terrorist. :+

[Demit]

4. I hear you, MannyG.

Not everybody here is a hothead. You can get reasoned responses a lot of the time. This particular topic is particularly incendiary, however. I know I myself feel that I will never know enough about it to have a clear idea of my opinion; even if I did, I'd think twice before offering it, as it does seem to immediately disperse everyone into two distinct and opposite corners. So sad.

[vickitulsa]

5. Thank you for making a VERY important point here!

I've experienced the same thing a lot, and almost nothing is so infuriating! I don't get angry easily because I'm old enough to be aware that most things in life come in shades of gray, not black and white, and most times we fly off the handle about something we'll end up being embarrassed (if we have any decency).

HOWEVER, I've found myself getting pretty angry several times lately when other people try to put words in my mouth or tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. If I don't know what I'm talking about, it will be obvious to other readers -- it's not necessary for one smug SOB to point it out, I would think. Most of us recognize that it's opinions we express here very often, not declaration of facts or history.

But the worst of all is when someone tells me what I'm saying, things which of course I didn't say and don't believe!

Maddening!

Thanks for speaking out on this!

[mrcheerful]

11. What gets me is when the accuse you of doing what they are doing

or how they brag on how many working americans are doing great. Then after they get in the right wing talking points they claim they are neither right wing or republican. I'm dealing with one Fireman, that is on "leave" so he can join the miltary. The other is a woman who claims she's on SSI, lives in a group homme, owns a small business making $11,000 a day. Did you know the american steel mills are doing just great and producing more steel today then they did in WWII?

[catmother]

6. i've had the same thing happen to me.

[BushOut06]

25. Supporting Israel is somehow akin to supporting Bush

I don't get this at all. Not only that, but because I think that perhaps the FBI was correct in monitoring known Hezbollah agents in this country, I was basically accused of wanting to round up every single Arab and Muslim.

It's almost as if some people just can't separate these issues. Disagree with them, and you are automatically a * supporter.

[Bonobo]

7. Damn, Manny! That post was excellent! K&R

[akushuki]

8. I'm with you here.

I got accused multiple times of drinking the Fox kool-aid

[MannyGoldstein]

10. I Had A Post Deleted For Disagreeing With Hillary & Kerry!

Once I posted a disagreement with Hillary and Kerry - I was attacked by a gaggle of folks claiming that I was a freeper shill, and my post was deleted!

The good news is that this has only happened to me once - but it's pretty shocking to be lumped with the freeper loonies just because you disagree with a single issue!

We're all pretty much on the same team here - let's not be like the Right and destroy anyone who has a single opinion that's different than the party line.

[LittleClarkie]

19. Why? What did Kerry say, if you don't mind

I haven't seen a statement from him yet.

[MannyGoldstein]

20. It Was On A Different Subject

Sorry, I was unclear - it was a while back, over censuring Bush for flagrantly violating the Constitution.

[vickitulsa]

23. I was compared to a Freeptard yesterday, too.

Wasn't worth a reply, rather I used the ignore function for only the second time since I came to DU a year ago.

I know most here don't stoop to such childish namecalling and pointless attacks on fellow DUers, but lately too many have been doing it. It's disturbing me quite a bit, too.

I've always been a peacemaker -- my whole family knows this well, and so do my friends, and many strangers whose heated arguments I've overheard and "interfered" in to defuse the anger. I can usually do it with just a few well-chosen words, often lighthearted, poking gentle fun while making a point. But here on DU this past week and especially on the subject of current events in Israel/Lebanon, such peacemaking efforts on my part leave me feeling like I'm spitting into the wind. Or speaking into it, at the very least.

Very discouraging. I've decided after yesterday when the Freeptard remark was thrown at me, however, that I'm simply going to assert my peacemaking efforts every time now instead of giving in at any point to an urge to lash back out at those who attack me (which I basically have not done) or trying to argue the real issues with such people. Calling names is childish to the point of the ridiculous on such a board as this, where so many intelligent and goodhearted people abide.

When I think about it, it must be difficult for the moderators to discern, when alerts are given or emails sent to them regarding a certain post, whether the poster is out of line for real or if those who are complaining are the true offenders....

[jsamuel]

9. My post was not accusatory, but a reasoned disagreement.

here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1663633&mesg_id=1663633

[Karmakaze]

12. Well, when people talk bullshit, they get called on it...

For example, saying that this latest bombardment of CIVILLIANS is a reasonable response to "hundreds of missiles" being fired at Israel. We all KNOW the truth, including YOU.

The bombing of Lebanese CIVILLIANS came about because of the capture of two Israeli SOLDIERS. The missiles didnt start to fall in Israel until the bombs had fallen in Lebanon.

So perhaps if you stop speaking bullshit, people will quit trying to put words in your mouth.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. QED

Quod erat demonstrandum.

[vickitulsa]

24. Yep, there it is.

When people call a post full of cussing and accusations and putting words in your mouth "a reasoned argument," what can you say? It's hopeless trying to talk with them.

[Bonobo]

17. How'd you get that picture of yourself as an avatar?

[Strelnikov_]

18. Path To War

July 12, 2006
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Hezbollah_attack_Israel%3B_Israeli_forces_cross_over_into_southern_Lebanon


Three Israeli soldiers died and eleven were wounded when army transports patrolling at the Israeli-Lebanese border were attacked on Wednesday morning, near the Israeli village of Zar'it. Hezbollah also fired mortars and long-range rockets at the Israeli town of Shlomi and nearby communities. Six Israeli civilians were injured by the artillery fire.

After the attack two soldiers were found to be missing. Israeli troops and tanks then entered southern Lebanon, having claimed the soldiers were kidnapped. Following the incursion, five more soldiers were killed, four of them when an Israeli tank hit a mine. Hezbollah said one of its members died.

The Israeli air-force targeted several roads, bridges and Hezbollah outposts in an attempt to stop militants from moving the soldiers, Israel said. Two civilians were killed in an air raid on one of the bridges, while 23 others have been injured. Israeli artillery and gunboats also attacked other targets on Lebanese soil. Later, Hezbollah said they had destroyed an Israeli tank which had crossed the border into Lebanon.

[blonndee]

22. You're only going back to July 12?

Try this

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/middleeast/gaza_timel...

July 13, 2006
Israeli air strikes hit the Palestinian foreign ministry building in Gaza. Israel said the raid was aimed at Foreign Minister Mahmoud Zahhar and accused him of involvement in the capture of an Israeli soldier.

July 12, 2006
An Israeli plane drops a 225-kilogram bomb on a residential building in an attempt to kill Hamas bomb-maker Mohammad Deif. The bombing kills six people, but not the intended target.

July 11, 2006
Israeli warplanes kill seven people and wound 24 in an attack on the house of Hamas activist Dr. Nabil al-Salmiah in Gaza City where a meeting of Hamas commanders was taking place.

July 10, 2006
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, speaking to foreign reporters, repeats his refusal to negotiate for the release of soldier Cpl. Gilad Shalit.

Khaled Mashaal, exiled leader of Hamas, says Shalit will be treated as a prisoner of war until Palestinian prisoners are freed.

An Israeli air strike kills two Palestinian militants in the Gaza town of Khan Younis.

July 9, 2006
Olmert tells his cabinet that Israel will continue its military offensive in the Gaza Strip until Palestinian militants free an abducted Israeli soldier and stop attacking the country with rockets.

Israel bombs a key bridge in northern Gaza and knocks out power to the town Beit Hanoun. The military says the bridge was destroyed to stop militants from moving rockets.

Witnesses claim Israeli tanks have returned to northern Gaza, a day after pulling out of the area. The Israeli military denies the report

July 8, 2006
Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh calls for a ceasefire with Israel, but does not offer to release Shalit.

United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan says Israel should stop its military operations in Gaza for humanitarian reasons, pointing to air strikes that affected Palestinian hospitals, as well as water and sanitation plants.

Israeli troops pull back from the northern Gaza towns of Beit Lahiya and Beit Hanoun.

Palestinian witnesses say an Israeli missile hit a house east of Gaza City, killing a six-year-old girl, her 20-year-old brother and their mother. The Israeli military begins an investigation of the incident.

July 7, 2006
Israeli Public Security Minister Avi Dichter says Israel will consider releasing Palestinian prisoners as a "reciprocal gesture" if Shalit is released.

Officials close to Olmert later say Dichter's statement does not reflect the views of the government and that Israel insists on the soldier's unconditional release.

Israeli forces carry out air strikes on Palestinian militant positions in northern Gaza for a second day.

July 6, 2006
In some of the heaviest fighting since Israeli forces re-entered Gaza, 21 Palestinians are killed, including nine killed in air strikes in the Beit Lahiya area. An Israeli soldier is shot in the head and killed in the same area.

Palestinian militants launch eight homemade rockets at southern Israel, including five in a one-hour period and one that lands off the coast of Ashkelon. No damage or injuries are reported.

Noam Shalit, father of captured Israeli solider Cpl. Gilad Shalit, asks Israel to consider meeting the demands of the Palestinian groups holding his son.

The United Nations Human Rights Council passes a resolution condemning Israel's military attacks against Palestinian ministries, power plants and bridges in the Gaza Strip.

The resolution passes by a 29-11 vote. Canada, Japan and EU members vote against the resolution. The council will also dispatch a fact-finding team to the region.

July 5, 2006
Israel's security cabinet approves expansion of the military operation in Gaza into residential areas in response to the Hamas rocket attack on Ashkelon.

In Geneva, John Dugard, a United Nations human rights envoy, tells a special session of the UN Human Rights Council that "Israel is in violation of the most fundamental norms of humanitarian law" because of its "disproportionate use of force against civilians" in Gaza.

July 4, 2006
The July 4, 2006 deadline set by Palestinian militants holding the Israeli soldier passed without concessions by Israel or confirmation that the 19-year-old corporal is still alive. The CBC's Adrienne Arsenault reports fighting near the main border crossing between Israel and Gaza during what appeared to be an Israeli incursion into Palestinian-controlled territory.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert continues to say the military offensive will continue until Shalit is released unconditionally. The Israeli government later says that Cpl. Shalit is still alive, but does not cite a source for the information.

Hamas claims responsibility for a rocket attack on an empty school in Ashkelon in southern Israel, about 10 kilometres from the Gaza Strip. No one is injured in the attack. Olmert calls the attack "a major escalation of the war of terror against us."

July 3, 2006
Israel rejects demands by three Palestinian militant groups that Israel start releasing 1,500 Palestinian prisoners by 6 a.m. on July 4, 2006, or the country would "bear all the consequences." Olmert rejects the ultimatum, saying there will be no negotiations.

The Israel air force kills one Palestinian and injures two others. The Israeli army says they were planting explosives along the border. The Islamic University in Gaza is hit in an air strike for the second time.

July 1, 2006
Israeli aircraft attack the office of Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. There was no one in the Hamas member's office when two missiles set it on fire at 1:45 a.m. local time.

June 30, 2006
Israeli warplanes hit more than 30 targets, including the Palestinian Interior Ministry offices and an office of Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades. The Israeli army says all the targets were used to plan or carry out attacks on Israel.

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak tells the newspaper Al-Ahram that the militants holding Shalit set terms for his release, but Israel did not agree. Israeli officials deny there was any such discussion.

June 29, 2006
The body of West Bank settler Eliahu Asheri is found near Ramallah. The Palestinian Resistance Committees later says it kidnapped and killed the 18-year-old.

Israel seizes eight Palestinian cabinet ministers - one-third of the Hamas-led cabinet - and nearly 20 other legislators in early morning raids. An Israeli army spokesperson says they weren't being used as bargaining chips to get back abducted Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit but were taken to await charges in connection with recent attacks against Israel.

June 28, 2006
Israel launches two missiles at a Hamas training camp in southern Gaza. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says the military incursion is not a reoccupation of Gaza, but the offensive will continue until a captured Israeli soldier is returned.

Four Israeli warplanes fly over the summer home of Syrain President Bashar Assad in Latakia, apparently to pressure Assad to work toward the captured soldier's release. The exiled leader of Hamas, Khaled Meshaal, lives in Syria.

At a mosque in Gaza City, militants with the Popular Resistance Committees display the identification card of missing West Bank settler Eliahu Asheri. They threaten to kill him if Isreal does not end its invasion of Gaza.

June 27, 2006
Israeli army air strikes destroy three bridges in northern Gaza and the district's main power station. Tanks and troops cross the border into Gaza and take up positions east of Rafah.

June 26, 2006
Israeli troops gather along the Gaza Strip border for an expected military strike following the capture of an Israeli soldier, and the deaths of two other Israeli soldiers.

June 25, 2006
Palestinian militants attack an Israeli army post, killing two soldiers and abducting a third. They crawled through a tunnel from the Gaza Strip. Israel later closed the tunnel and shut down the border to Gaza. Israeli leaders said they would wait two days for the militants to return the soldier before launching a military response. This was the first time militants have conducted a deadly raid since the army withdrew from Gaza in September 2005.

Eliahu Asheri, an 18-year-old military student and West Bank settler, goes missing.

June 24, 2006
Two rival Palestinian groups agree to stop firing rockets at Israel from the Gaza Strip. A spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas tells Reuters that the Fatah leader and Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas have agreed to stop firing rockets at Israel. This move raised hopes of a new truce, but militants with the armed wing of Hamas and the Islamic Jihad group deny a ceasefire.

June 13, 2006
Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz says an inquiry has concluded that Israel is not responsible for an explosion on a beach June 9, blaming it on an explosive buried in the sand. Human Rights Watch says its investigation found the explosion was caused by a 155-millimetre shell "in all likelihood" fire by an Israeli gun.

An Israeli air strike kills nine Palestinians, including two members of Islamic Jihad. The others killed were civilians, including two children, hospital officials say.

June 10, 2006
President Mahmoud Abbas calls a referendum for July 26 on creating a Palestinian state alongside Israel. Hamas threatens a boycott because they say a yes vote would be a de facto recognition of the state of Israel.

The armed wing of Hamas fires more than a dozen rockets on the Israeli city of Ashkelon, ending a 16-month-old self-declared truce.

June 9, 2006
An explosion on a beach in Gaza kills eight Palestinians, including a family with three children having a picnic. The Palestinian government accuses Israel of firing the shell that caused the explosion. The Israeli defence minister would later deny that the military caused the explosion, blaming it on an explosive buried in the sand.

June 8, 2006
Israeli helicopters fired four missiles at a training camp in the southern Gaza town of Rafah, killing Jamal Abu Samhadana, the Palestinian government's top security chief, and three other militants. Ten other people are wounded.

June 1, 2006
Thousands of Palestinian police officers demonstrate in the Gaza Strip over the government's failure to pay close to three months worth of wages.

May 26, 2006
Hamas withdraws a security force of 3,000 gunmen from Gaza in an effort to reduce tensions with the rival Fatah faction.

May 24, 2006
The Israeli military conducts a raid on Ramallah, killing at least three Palestinians and injuring 30 others before withdrawing. A short time later in a separate incident, a car bombing kills Gaza security chief and Abbas loyalist Nabil Hodhod.

May 19, 2006
A gun battle erupts near the Palestinian parliament building in the Gaza Strip between members of the new Hamas security force and police officers loyal to President Mahmoud Abbas.

Sept. 12, 2005
Israeli troops leave the Gaza Strip, ending their 38-year presence in the area. Palestinians celebrate the troop withdrawal. Some of the synagogues remaining in the Strip are set on fire.

Aug. 23, 2005
The last Israeli settlers leave their settlements in the Gaza Strip, ahead of a full Israeli withdrawal from the area.

[BushOut06]

26. LIES!

Anything good you said about Israel is nothing but a pack of lies. Israel pulled out of Gaza? LIE. I demand proof. Give me a link. But not a link that is from any Jewish or Israeli source. Show me proof that any Palestinians ever set a synagogue on fire. Real proof, not Zionist accusations.

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

This seems to be the typical mentality of many DU posters.

[Strelnikov_]

28. When Did Gaza Become Lebanon?

Irregardless of the proportionality of the response, Hizbollah attacked first in the current flare-up including the use of missiles.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. What a Sad Mess

And it keeps going back more than 50 years. Such an incredible waste of life.

Thanks for putting this in perspective.

[LittleClarkie]

14. Welcome to the internets and life on the messageboards.

Comes with the territory, I reckon.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Welcome...

I have been here almost two years...you don't want to hear what I have been called! LOL! Though my two favorites are an agent of Mossad (as if Mossad has nothing better to do than post on chat/discussion boards) and, the other day....this is a pip...a "Zionist influencing the DU moderators!" :rofl:!!!! As if!

Anyway, hang tough...this too shall pass....and then come right back around!

[rman]

27. Hezbollah firing missiles is a response to Israeli military attacks.

Israel claims its current actions are a justified response to the kidnapping of the Israeli soldier.

I suspect you know that, yet you only talk about "Israel's right to defend itself".

[seabeyond]

30. so what you are saying is. translation is:

and then precede to redefine argument without words you ever used. yes. i hear ya. a lousy way to communicate with a person. i get it often too.

what you are saying is.............

no. that is not what i said

[yodermon]

31. So, ignore the ones

who put words in your mouth, or "construct a fantastic model of your entire belief system."
If they're being irrational/insulting/etc, don't feed them with responses. Only engage those whose replies you deem to be reasonable and respectful.

Having said that, I understand that it is very frustrating to have your views twisted & miscontrued. If the offenders cannot be convinced with rational, level-headed argument, then you're wasting your anger on them.

[Joe Fields]

32. I couldn't agree with you more. There ARE way too many

people here on DU ready to fly off the handle and make unbelieveable leaps of judgement when someone with a different point of view offers an opinion. It is childish, shows a lack of good manners and a true inability to debate in a reasonable and adult fashion.

[YOY]

33. OMG You Hate Puppies???

You son of a #@%@$#&!!!

Just kidding. I got your point!