Air Conditioning Nightmare In Global Warming Big Box Store Hell

[omega minimo]

Everybody's gotta story. About the blank, clueless, poorly trained, barely educated legion of youth that do what is euphemistically called "customer service" in businesses today. We complain about them to our friends and family and get over it.

What about when they are EVERYWHERE?! What about when you have to buy an air conditioner in a nationwide, hellishly humid high pressure system in the peak of summer in the Hottest Year On Record Since Ever and go to several stores in the sweltering heat and every single business is staffed with people with subhuman language and comprehension skills-- a whole legion of youth who were "socially promoted" through the rupturing school system and have healthy egos in direct proportion to their monumental lack of skills?

How does anything get done in this country? Every day, in every state, in every business, we are all encountering these simpletons who make everything DIFFICULT instead of smooth-- one step forward, five steps back. It's an epidemic. Why do customers put up with this? How do you deal with it?

Someone said, "If you think this is scary, wait til they're the ones in charge."

[brokensymmetry]

1. Tell me about it.

Customers put up with it because they have no choice.

The way I deal with it is to swallow a lot of anger.

[omega minimo]

2. Swallowing anger-- good for the antacid business

"Customers put up with it because they have no choice."

We do have choices though.

[cynatnite]

3. True story...

My mother and I went to a KMart store in a college town to buy paint. She asked the student who was working that section for grey paint.

He said "We don't carry that brand".

We stood there...speechless.

Yes, it is indeed frightening.

[omega minimo]

4. Getting answers like pulling teeth Answers of the Week

About how to mount the air conditioner:

"I don't know how it works, but it works." That's the sales "associate" talking.

Calling an installation service for general info which is a conceptual stretch for the girl that answered. Tried to find out "what's the process?"

"The process is you go to Sear's, buy one, they fax us the information and we call you for an appointment."

:rofl: :puke:

[Pathwalker]

19. Try arguing with a teenager over the difference

between alkyd vs. latex paint. He kept arguing that there was no such thing as oil based paint - I tried telling him the differences. He said I didn't know what the hell I was talking about, I said I'd been painting with both longer than he'd been on the planet, and haven't bought paint there since. Idiot!
No gray paint brand? :rofl:

[juajen]

56. Give me a break!

You do not go up to a paint counter and ask for grey paint. There are many shades of grey, doncha know? You get a paint chip and then ask for that specific color.

So, who was stupid?

[cynatnite]

84. The guy who said 'we don't carry that brand' wasn't stupid?

:eyes:

Would you actually think someone was talking about a brand when asking for grey paint?

All we wanted was grey paint for a small fence around a flower bed. We told the kid that, but his brain couldn't compute that it was a color.

The stupid sign belongs on the kid.

[progressivebydesign]

136. My KMART paint story with a young man clerk.

I was choosing a color for my kitchen.. and I had chosen a very nice green. The young man told me that I should use that color because it will make people want to "throw up" in my kitchen. Ummm.. I'm an interior designer, I think that I might have a bit more insight on that... I didn't buy any paint that day, I lost my appetite.

[Cruzan]

5. Use the Web

I have long given up on getting any kind of useful information from sales clerks. And when I do, I consider it purely as a bonus, a windfall. Instead, I research on the Web exactly what I want, and if I can wait a week or more for it, purchase it right there. Otherwise, I take that information: brand name, model number, other codes, maybe even print out a picture, and take it to the nearest big box or other store and try to locate the product myself. And if I fail, I can present my printouts to the clerk, who if nothing else, tends to be competent enough to punch in a number in the store database and as a result give a semi-authoritative answer as to whether they carry said product and/or when they might get it, or ideally, find it in the store for me. You can get a great deal on a digital camera at Costco but why in the world in this day and age would you expect the clerk by the display to be able to provide a useful recommendation on which one you buy. Maybe there's a chance he could, but I would never expect, let alone depend on, him being able to.

[omega minimo]

6. You're right-- that's what it's come to

Thing is, if you're buying an air conditioner, it doesn't seem too farfetched to ask how to mount the bloody thing and get AN answer vs. lobotomized non-answers. Silly me.

Did they quit teaching English, vocabulary in school? I know critical thinking is out of fashion but four kids in four different stores were impossible to get ANY info out of. What is their problem? And how DOES anything get done in this country, with people going to these places for basic needs?

[Warren DeMontague]

10. For $5.15 an hour

or what is it here- seven bucks? You're not going to get that level of expertise. I mean, at some level -every level- it's the fault of the corporations that are running these deals. I've got stores I won't go to because the staff clearly doesn't care. Oh, I don't mean they're having a good time while they're working, even goofing off a little. I spent years working in funky, indie retail stores. I know how it goes- we had an attitude at times (part of that indie, anti-corporate appeal) but we backed it up by knowing our stuff.

The folks in the matching shirts in the big box stores...my experience is that often, they literally don't care, at least when they're not paid well. And why should they? There's a local outlet of a major national computer store chain near me that is, just, atrocious. I keep telling myself I won't go back, then I'm in the neighborhood and I need a new ergonomic mousepad or some such nonsense, and the same thing happens every time- I've stood there for twenty minutes, asked someone for help, been told to "hang on, they'll get someone" and waited another half hour with no one showing up. This isn't a big store that's full of people- there was no one in there that day.

Then I remember for some stores I need to not shave and wear ratty cut off shorts, because then I can get a perfunctory "can I help you?" where they're trying to make sure I'm not thinking of stealing something. Shit, no, I'd just like to buy it, thanks.

I probably buy two thirds of everything I shop for on the internet, these days. It's easier, I can do it at three in the morning, and I don't have to deal with actual humans.


Sad, but true.

I'd try Costco, OM. They're a good company, they treat their employees well. I don't know if they've got air conditioners, but it's worth a shot. The staff there seems fairly knowledgeable about a wide range of things.

Part of the problem- to be fair to the big box floor crew- may be that I think mounting a window air conditioner is a bigger job than it might seem. I don't know too much about it, but back in the days of my bachelor apt. living, I ended up buying a little portable floor deal because -if I remember correctly- the whole window thing was kind of daunting, aside from it being liable to piss off the landlord. There's not a whole lot of how to stuff on the internet related to it either, from what I can see. Perhaps ye should consult a contractor, particularly because sometimes I think they have specific electrical needs beyond your standard outlet.

Peace.

[omega minimo]

20. THE GOOGLE ADS ARE FOR AIR CONDITIONERS!!!!!!!

" I mean, at some level -every level- it's the fault of the corporations that are running these deals. I've got stores I won't go to because the staff clearly doesn't care."

Well, that's it right there. These products of the public education system are prepared for a life of computerized mediocrity and unquestioning servitude to the big box big business owners of --- everything.

And ya know, ETA, I don't expect them to care. Or even be knowledgable. Except about REALLY BASIC stuff like knowing what hardware is (or isn't) in the box with the AC and what ya need to do with it. "I don't know how it works, it just works."

My expectations are reasonable low. What was shocking this week was talking to four of the clones who were all amazingly STUNTED in their ability to communicate. They don't have the skills and no additional wage increase will change that. Even creepier, they were all stunted in the same way-- these kids have been raised to scan and push buttons and only "grok" what's right in front of their faces. I don't expect "problem solving" "critical thinking" all those quaint concepts of yesteryear-- but I didn't realize how hobbled by miseducation these people really are.

Maybe Dems should get on the school boards like the Repukes and Xtian Rightists did-- to turn this sinking ship around.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. No matter how you slice it, some 58 million people supposedly voted

for Bush.

That doesn't bode well for Merkin critical thinking skills, at all. I also think public education was decimated and hobbled from Reagan on, and you can see it clearly in the folks who were born during the "greed is good" era. (I love it when the right talks about how "60's values" are the problem. Shit, I think "80s values" are the real problem) I don't know how much can be done on the school boards if there isn't funding. I mean, it costs very little to implement the Xtian right agenda- ban books, and get some free materials from the Discovery Institute to replace the Darwin based biology textbooks. Actual improvements -and good teachers- cost cash.

But I also think that consolidation- and big box-ification- of this stuff compounds the problem. Back in the day you might have an air conditioner store, or an appliance store. Now you buy your AC from the same place that sells lawn care products and CDs and computer software.

I had a professional put central air into my house when I bought it. Cost a little bit, but in retrospect, years later, it was one of the best moves I ever made.

[juajen]

58. I think we are going too far here

Mr. Juajen put together bicycles at age 16-18 for minimum wage in the 50's. He was trained to put them together, not sell them. Clerks are not usually trained to know how what they sell works or is put together. I worked in a dime store in the 50's after school and on saturdays. I would not have known a darn thing about how anything was put together or worked.

Most items come with instructions, which you should be able to read, or get help reading. You cannot get cheap prices unless items are assembly-lined and boxed.

Geesh!

[omega minimo]

63. Geesh yourself

Here's what happened. This was at Sears, whose brand name item I was consdering. Looking at a display of unboxed ACs, I asked how the one I was interested in mounted.

"You put it in and the window holds it."

That's it?

"That's it?"

That's it. THAT'S ALL THEY GOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What part of "nimrod" don't the people here who are trying to justify this, understand?

Here's what they CAN'T do:

Explain what that means
Provide any info, a manual or any kind of actual ANSWER
Be bothered to move their ass and show a customer the product on display
Begin to comprehend that that is NOT helpful

Here's what they CAN do:

"I don't know how it works, but it works."

You told a customer that in the 50's and the bike shop owner would have kicked your sorry ass out the door.

Not everyone lives in the standard cookie cutter home, either. What is the big deal about making sure before you shell out $200 that the thing you're buying is going to fit?

"You cannot get cheap prices unless items are assembly-lined and boxed."

I did my homework on the Web. I knew what I was looking for. A cheap price was not the be-all and end-all of everything and why even assume that? Is that how we justify this mandatory corporate servitude?

An item that is "assembly-lined and boxed" (like THAT didn't happen in the 50's) does not mean that some kid selling it can't answer basic (YES BASIC) questions.

The truth is, all the retailer cares about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and they don't train the kids to do anything but scan and ring sales.

What a bunch of suckers we are.

[blonndee]

66. If I'm not mistaken,

Sears is supposed to have salespeople who DO know about what they sell, particularly hardware and appliances. I believe they work on commission, at least the last time I shopped there they did; although that was several years ago.

[Patchuli]

100. My spouse works for

Orchard Supply Hardware where the customer service is 99% perfect and helpful. Home Depot? They have run away when approached!!

[Alcibiades]

62. It's not the fault of the schools

The problem is television. Television has turned this young generation into a bunch of televisual zombies. Do they seem ignorant? That's because you're not asking the right questions. They know stuff like zit cream brands and what have you, not such things as how an air conditioner works. (Um, it's something involving ammonia? Or was that the 19th century precursor to air conditioning? I'll be damned if I know.) In any event, you could provide these kids with the best educational resources in the world for 8 hours a day, five days a week, and still not be able to undo the damage done by watching the television for 8 hours a day, seven days a week.

There was a time when grown men were forced to sell air conditioners. They knew about the BTU's and wattage and all that stuff (I'm just guessing here, because, as I've already admitted, I don't know how it is that air conditioners work myself. Liquid and condensation and something something, I'm sure.) These men are gone, or retired, and we should ask ourselves if it isn't for the better. There are certain advantages to how the current system works. For one thing, these kids find selling air conditioners (or whatever) for their giant corporation dehumanizing, but can you imagine what it would be like if adults were forced to do so? Even if they were paid real wages?

Besides, the current big box system does have the advantage of forcing you to do your own research, as some folks have already mentioned. This will get you reading, in turn ensuring the survival of literacy and therefore civilization.

Please, don't judge these kids too quickly! The problem is that they are short-term employees, and they know it. In rational choice theory, this is called "the shadow of the future:" in every solidaristic arrangement, there is an incentive to defect when one knows the time horizon is short. That's what these kids have done. Besides, they have been told all their lives that all their hopes hinge upon getting into the right college. If they already have gotten in, then what will it avail them to be diligent in their jobs at the big box stores? If they have failed in the quest to get into the good school, then they may as well give up already, because their lives are destined for drudgery.

[omega minimo]

73. Intriguing pretzel logic

You had me at "The problem is television." And this has occurred to me, along with the zombie stare, the sleepwalking behavior, the painfully simplistic language...........

"That's because you're not asking the right questions....In any event, you could provide these kids with the best educational resources in the world for 8 hours a day, five days a week, and still not be able to undo the damage done by watching the television for 8 hours a day, seven days a week."

You're right. Like the girl on the phone I asked about installation and what's the process: The answer is "the process" from HER POV not the customers. The bizarre disconnect of that mentality (found every Chain Store step of the way) is what was most scary about this and inspired the OP.

""Please, don't judge these kids too quickly! The problem is that they are short-term employees, and they know it. In rational choice theory, this is called "the shadow of the future:" in every solidaristic arrangement, there is an incentive to defect when one knows the time horizon is short."

I don't judge them unless they are in my face making my life much more difficult than there's any reason to be; I am still nice and patient with them; rather than judge them, I was more interested in all the "normal" people-- customers-- who are going through this every bloody day on their errands. NONE OF US HAS TIME FOR THIS SHITE!!!!!!!!

So I asked in the OP how people handle it. Funny how many want to act like it's JUSTIFIED. We are being groomed into corporate bondage and the people LOVE IT!!

As for "rational choice theory, "the shadow of the future" and "every solidaristic arrangement" (I don't know what that means) I do not agree with those here who rationalize the mercenary attitude as the basis for our behavior. If these kids think "there is an incentive to defect when one knows the time horizon is short" -- or they are not "motivated" by anything other than$$$ -- then they will forever be asking the age old question:

"WHO MOVED MY CHEESE?"

B-)

[Alcibiades]

75. I know

The phrase "please don't be too quick to judge" was probably a little off-base, seeing some of your comments in later posts I hadn't read yet. Sloppy rhetoric on my part, I probably should have written something along the lines of "We should all have a care when dealing with such young people, because their employment often presupposes short-term status, which means that they have little invested in their jobs, and expect little in return." Anyway, judgment is inevitable, I do it myself. Of course, I am required to do so as a (currently unemployed) college-level instructor in political science. It's been this experience that inclines me toward some sympathy for these kids, as I've had to do a lot of soul-searching on the subject. If you find dealing with them in a big box setting maddening and soul destroying, try reading one of their essays. Then multiply that by 400.

Anyway, I'm interested in explanations, not justifications, but I understand how they can read like the same thing.

I don't personally endorse rat choice theory anyway, so we can agree to just drop that one.

BTW, I hated the cheese book. The whole point of it, it seemed to me, was that the experimenters (i.e. the corporation) have the freedom to manipulate you, to move the cheese at will (i.e. to screw us over as customers and employees), and we are somehow moral failures, wrong to ever question who moved the cheese, why or how. In whose interest was it that the cheese be moved? That's what I'd like to know. Anyway, the kids are safe from the cheese book, because it contains, you know, words and stuff. I just hope they don't see the pictures!

[omega minimo]

77. Come on

"In whose interest was it that the cheese be moved? That's what I'd like to know."



:rofl: :rofl: :spray: :rofl: :cry:

"Rat choice" "Moved cheese" -- seems a theme here.

"Anyway, the kids are safe from the cheese book, because it contains, you know, words and stuff. I just hope they don't see the pictures!"

They are living that book.

Esp. if people really believe that the way to live your life is decide that your job is mind-numbing and doesn't pay enough so your'e gonna turn braindead and boring and ugly and stupid and mean.

"I probably should have written something along the lines of "We should all have a care when dealing with such young people, because their employment often presupposes short-term status, which means that they have little invested in their jobs, and expect little in return."

If that's their perspective, fine. That is no excuse to FUCK UP MY life and every other person coming along, trying to do a project, run an errand, pay a bill, make an appointment................

If the system sucks, that doesn't mean we have to let it turn us into suckers or assholes.

:patriot: :hug:

[Cruzan]

13. Air conditioner installation is hardly trivial

The most I would hope to get out of a big box sales clerk would be a tech. support number. Anything more I'd consider a bonus. And before I'd even made the trip, again, I would've looked somewhere like here: http://www.residential.carrier.com/knowledge/index.shtml

The only alternative for me would be to purchase direct from the company retail outlet (if such exists). By going to the actual source you pretty much can guarantee getting all your questions answered and as much help as you need. Of course, you'll also pay for it with a substantial markup over the big box store price. And really, that's what it comes down to. Do you want the best price or knowledgeable sales staff? You can't have both because there's a shorter supply of those kind of people who in turn demand higher salaries which then get reflected in higher prices.

For me it's matters of just basic competence where I have little tolerance. For example, the grocery bagger who misses bagging an item I purchased which I don't discover until I get home, or the Jiffy Lube guy screwing in the oil pan drain plug crooked so the threads are stripped and my car now has a persistant small oil leak. I'm sorry, but people like these simply need to be taken out and shot.

[omega minimo]

25. I had informed questions. THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM

I DID use the web as many suggest here, I DID do my homework and already know about BTUs, etc. I AM talking about stuff that IS trivial:

What hardware is in the box?
How is it supported in the window?
Does it get the energy efficiency rebate from the local utitlity district?



And one place was Sears. I bought one of THEIR brand. And the big box NON-mentality reigns supreme.

"Do you want the best price or knowledgeable sales staff? You can't have both because there's a shorter supply of those kind of people who in turn demand higher salaries which then get reflected in higher prices."

Please understand that the communication skills were the problem, not "knowledge." Anything outside of "box, scan, money, computer........." was just TOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo esoteric for them.

Even the rebate question-- one kid kept saying to the first guy I asked -- "It it's got dat sticker on it-- if it's got dat sticker on it."

Would it have been too much to ask for him to say WHAT sticker?

[Warren DeMontague]

31. I also find that certain chains- the ones with the non-corporate vibe

(even when they're corporate) seem to have brighter people who are able to think outside the proverbial "box".

Again, I'd check Costco.

[Tesha]

42. Air Conditioner Installation 101

For your average room air conditioner (oh, 4,000 to 8,00 BTU
or so), installation actually *IS* pretty easy, at least if you have
an ordinary "double hung" window.

Basic process:

1. Take air conditioner out of carton

2. Remove its front panel, detach any "ground wire"
that connects the mechanism to the case, and slide the
mechanism out of case.

3. Slide the lower window sash up.

4. Figure out how the AC's case fits into the opening.
This often involves sliding filler panels, inserting foam
bits, and drilling two holes in the bottom of the lower
sash. Ideally, the outside of the case will tilt down
slightly so that "condensate" runs towards the outside,
not in towards your house.

5. Once you've figured it all out, mount the AC's case in
the window. Stuff in those bits of foam that you decided
to use. Make sure the case is secure.

6. Slide the mechanism back into the now-securely-mounted
case.

7. Secure the mechanism inside the case. Re-attach any electrical
ground wire that you disconnected earlier.

8. Re-attach the front panel of the unit.

9. Plug it in.

10. Turn it in.

Tesha

[Alcibiades]

64. 11. Apply duck tape to remedy

any errors made in steps 1-10.

[omega minimo]

80. We're fuct

[Tesha]

115. Honest, you can do it!

If you have ordinary double-hung windows, you can do it!

The worst case is you'll need someone to help you lift
the mechanism to slide it in, but a lot of modern machines
are pretty-well-balanced and can be lifted by one person.

And some one else below confirmed that this installation
stuff really does boil down to some tinkering and, usually,
two screws to hold the case to the window. (The Sears person
wasn't far off when they said installation consisted of
putting it into the window! The two screws just ensure
that neither an idiot nor vibration opens the window.)

Tesha

[slackmaster]

121. Darn

I don't have sash windows.

I a doomed.

[eleny]

7. Q in a restaurant:: "What green vegetable do you have today?"

Answer: "We have corn."

[omega minimo]

8. aaaahhhHahahahawheezehahahha

WE HAVE CORN!

:rofl:


It's like we're speaking different languages. Most bizarre is they think they are helping.

"We have corn. What's yer problem?" :eyes:


The guy who said "I don't know how it works-- it just works" was givin me the skank eye after that.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. At least the answer wasn't "processed cheese"

Shit, try to order a salad in one of these TGIF type places. Iceberg lettuce covered with a mountain of that obligatory orange cheese goop. No wonder 90% of this country is obese and has type II diabetes.

[omega minimo]

22. "Go to the freezer-- Get the box"

[smirkymonkey]

144. Well, it's green on the OUTSIDE....

:rofl:

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Another true story....

student goes to the help desk at Barnes & Noble and asks if they have Plato's Republic.

After a few seconds of keyboard play-- "Plato. Is that the first or last name?"

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Ouch.

All you boys learned this semester was that Caesar was a "salad dressing dude"

[China_cat]

14. Worse than that

Ask a LIBRARIAN where the Sophocles would be. She goes to the computer and says "please spell that for me" after wondering aloud who Sophocles is.

[Patchuli]

33. What library was that?!!!

If you came to my library with that question, I'd send you to the OPAC which is the computerized catalog of my library and you could spell it and check for it yourself. I'd be amazed if the person you spoke to was an actual librarian who couldn't spell Sophocles. It takes a masters' degree to become a librarian. You probably asked a clerk.

[China_cat]

36. Nope, she was the librarian

Cooper River Branch of the Charleston County Library. I was working there as a volunteer teaching the senior internet class. Trying to save some time rather than hit the card catalog myself.

[Patchuli]

68. OMG that's horrible!!

And a CARD CATALOG? Yeee Gads!!! This was recent? I cannot believe that! That is no way to run a library in the internet age! That's stone age!

[Gormy Cuss]

95. As a library patron, I can tell you that card catalogs still have a place

I learned this after dealing with stupefyingly bad interfaces on electronic catalogs. Subject searches that are too sensitive, keyword searches that don't accept Boolean operators,poor cross-references, you name it. It's getting better but there are still systems out there that seem designed to trip up the average patron.

The other reason to use a card catalog is that some underfunded libraries haven't converted the card catalog. New acquisitions are in the electronic catalog, but not all of the old ones. The old ones are added to the electronic system as budget and resources permit.

[Vinnie From Indy]

15. Have some fun with 'em at least

Breathlessly run up to one ofthe sales associates and tell them that there is a "dikfor" leaking all over other merchandise in the corner of the store and they might want to clean it up. Then go home.

[marions ghost]

16. OK well

what I generally notice is the HUGE discrepancy between the different big box stores.

Yes, in some the salespeople are clueless and not very well trained. Many American retail businesses don't put much effort into training their underpaid employees anymore. I have avoided stores which are so bad it's like some kind of sick comedy to shop there. In one retail chain the store had no bags or wrapping for glass objects so they had to be folded into some clothing items I also bought. The clerk was apologetic and told me she hadn't had a break in several hours (it was not a special sale). There are some primitive working conditions in some of these 'big box' stores.

And yet in others the staff is reasonably helpful and professional. I happened to be in another big box office supply store after dark when a massive power outage occurred all over the area (and lasted for hours). The parking lots were gridlock as they fed onto a big highway full of Christmas shoppers with no traffic lights working. So all we could do was wait inside the dark store, which was an eerie experience with total strangers. The staff in that store had obviously been trained about exactly what to do in such an emergency. They were very cool about it, helped take care of a little girl who was crying and someone who had to get to the bathroom. They corralled us all in office chairs, locked the doors so noone could come in (we could go out but not the other way around). They kept us informed of what was going on with outside contact by cell phone. I was very impressed by their response and their teamwork. So that was reassuring that -in some cases- the staff is apparently trained. The big difference reflects on policies and management.

In sympathy with some of the usually underpaid employees at these big box stores, there is a lot of information one needs to research when buying electronics, cameras and other such products. The consumer should have done their homework to make an informed decision and not depend on the harried staff to give them undivided attention. Of course if the staff can't answer reasonable questions that is just dumb on the store's part.

[CabalPowered]

17. Telecoms are my favorite. I recently tried to reach our

representative so they could counter offer on a proposal from another telecom. I spent 3 whole days trying to track down my rep. On the third day, I was told to send a fax to a certain number with the message to call me on it. At that point I lost it, told the lady I'd rather get on the roof and send a frickin smoke signal. I sent the fax anyways and nobody called me back. Sent another fax the next day and no call back. I finally had to have our attorney send a certified letter informing them that they are in breach of our contract if they do not reach me. They called me the next day.

[DavidDvorkin]

18. The Marching Morons

A classic science-fiction story. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons.)

It seemed exaggerated at the time, but not so much now.

[Richard Steele]

147. One of my all time favorites. And yes, it sure seems more REAL nowadays.

[Midlodemocrat]

21. I see it more and more often.

I posted a story not that long ago about a grocery store bagger who rolled his eyes at me. I wasn't even speaking to him.

And, the other day at Lowe's, a guy went to reach for a cart and the kid putting them in the corral started to yell at him. It was surreal.

[truth2power]

23. "The Crapification of America". You've got to read this!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=218938&mesg_id=218938

[demgurl]

24. I evaluate customer service for a living.

I mystery shop and have done so for over 20 years. There are more inconsiderate employees than considerate, but when you find the considerate ones it is so worth it.

When I am not evaluating I just deal with the inconsiderate ones by asking for a manager or calling the 1-800 number. This usually works.

I remember once having trouble using coupons because the customer service associate came over and said 'one per purchase' meant one per transaction. I argued that what the company meant was one per each item purchased and I had purchased ten so I could use ten. She disagreed and even made me go out to a pay phone to call THEIR 1-800 number!!!!!!!!! When I came back in their 1-800 folks had called and let them know I was in the right and to let me make my purchase. The customer service associate told me I had better keep that 1-800 number because I would be needing it again in the future!!! I took this as a threat and called back the 1-800 associate I had originally talked with. She mentioned that the associate had also been rude to her and she was aghast when she heard about the threat. Strange thing is I have never seen that associate there again!

[omega minimo]

26. An Indian friend said "You need to know what 'Customer Service' means"

"Customer service means if somethings wrong with it, you can bring it back and get your money back."

She has lived here 7 years and has great comments on American culture. She recommended the Lowe's that I went to. After looking at their website, which makes a big deal out of their installation services, I drove quite a ways to get to the closest one in my area.

The young staffer told me that THIS Lowe's store is the only one in the area that "doesn't do installation." When I ask what air conditioners they have in my BTU range he's says this is all of them without moving an inch meaning "Walk around and look for yourself." OK Fine.

So I'm asking him 2 things. Do you have the list or something showing which ones get the local utility rebate?
If this store doesn't do installation, can it be SET UP right now to come through another store in the area?

Could you check on that for me? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Well, after Mr. "If-it's-gotta-sticker-on-it" and this guy were no help, I asked at Customer Service if it could be set up through this store. There's a big sign up there on the wall :rofl: about how important CS is and how many numbered steps they'll go through for YOU, The Customer. I end up talking to a guy who WAS the store manager and he didn't give a shit. HIS store (even though it's a chain, they're all run differently?) doesn't do installation.

This OP wasn't about "inconsiderate" as much as "braindead." I dealt with SEVEN of these nimrods this week. I have to say the 2 guys at Home Depot were inept but they WERE trying to be helpful or "considerate."

The other question I came away with was how do Americans deal with the ADDED stress and UNECESSARY complications and roadblocks to whatever their projects are EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK? Is Road Rage the answer?

And why isn't there more consumer organization against putting up with this bullshit? WE vote with our $$$$$$$.

[demgurl]

28. Wow, that was quite an experience!

I have come home with so many stories about bad customer service and I would say over 3/4 of them them have to do with people who work behind the customer service desk!

My husband always asks two questions about these people. The first question is why would a business put their most unfriendly employees in a job where your job description is to be as friendly and as helpful as possible to the customer. The second question is why would someone want to work in customer service when they hate people so much. These are good questions.

By the way, the problem I had where the store said it is only one coupon per store order is not the first time that has happened. It has all happened with the same store chain. (Coincidentally also called Lowes) It has happened so often that I actually emailed companies and got their response. I have written to corporate Lowes a minimum of six times and always enclosed the company emails where they say the wording means one per each item. Corporate has always come down on my side, of course.

I am not sure if the problem is unfriendly workers or people who do not know how to think. When using coupons I have had people tell me canned tuna is not seafood, ham is not meat, hamburger is not beef and the soda I was buying was not the brand on the coupon. Well, the "brand" on the coupon was listed as this "Save a $1 off your favorite brand soda". It is sad when you have to argue with the cashier that there is no such thing as a "favorite" brand soda and that she can not argue that this is not your favorite since how could she possibly know. This is what we are dealing with in America.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. With customer service, there's a high burnout rate.

Customers can be difficult, rude, inconsiderate, impossible or just plain dumb with equal frequency as employees. I don't know if these folks start out "hating people", but I do think people often eventually drive them there. I think many customer service jobs would turn Ghandi into a misanthrope.

[jmowreader]

118. When it comes to installation services, they are all different

If you guys want to know how Home Depot's installation system works (very well, thank you), let me know and I'll post a nice little screed on it.

But the most important thing is: it's all local installers contracted through the store. And the standards are real high--for instance, we require the contractor to hold twice as much general liability insurance as the state he's in requires. The theory is that fly-by-night operators don't overbuy on their insurance. (Dealing with us is very advantageous to the contractor. We do all the selling. We pay a good rate. And we pay on time.)

If this store doesn't have installers contracted, there are no installation services available.

(Check this shit out: We have two Lowe's stores in Fayetteville. One of our door installers also hangs doors for the Lowe's on Skibo Road. If he wanted to hang doors for the Lowe's on Ramsey Street, he'd have to go out there and apply to that store. We don't mind that he hangs doors for Lowe's because of the way the F&I (furnish and install) process works--when you hang a door for the Home Depot, you start by coming to the store and picking up the door to be hung. He doesn't have a little stash of doors sitting there ready to be installed, so he can't hang a door and conveniently bill it to Lowe's. Also, we pay him more than Lowe's does, so he does our installs first.)

[Patchuli]

34. I'm thinking about being a mystery shopper

So the jobs are worth it?

[Warren DeMontague]

39. I want the job where you evaluate mystery shoppers.

Or maybe the job where you evaluate the people who evaluate the mystery shoppers.

[demgurl]

48. I do it just to pick up money and

to afford to be able to go out a little more. The jobs I take are ones that only really reimburse expenses. (mainly hotels, grocery stores, and restaurants) If you want to make any money you have to do real estate, post office, apartments or banks. You will never get rich off of doing it but it is cool when it allows you to eat out or make a couple of extra bucks. I personally feel it is worth it because I am a stay at home mom and I would just be doing housework or volunteering if I did not do this so a little is better than nothing....that is my reasoning, anyway.

A great site to start at is www.volition.com. They have a whole alphabetical list of companies that are on the up and up. If a company ever asks you for money then run away as fast as you can.

If you need help or have other questions please feel free to write to my inbox.

[Patchuli]

67. Wow! Thank you so much!

The site I'm looking at wants to give you a "free Bronze" membership but of course if you want plum assignments (like getting to 'shop a Carribean cruise), you will want to upgrade to a "Silver" or "Gold." uh huh uh huh...yeah.

Thanks for the warning and the assist. I do like to go out and am a world class shopper unfortunately!

[demgurl]

99. Patchuli.....

If you go to the site I mentioned you will find that many of us veterans, of mystery shopping, would love to get those types of plum assignments as well. They do not give them because you pay money. These types of jobs are not advertised and they are only really given when the schedulers get to know you and they offer it to you one on one. I have worked for over 50 companies and never once have I had to pay money to get any sort of job.

I am glad you did not fall for that. Look around the volition site and let me know if you need anything.

[Scout]

27. here's a good one for you....

I was in Canada, at Lake Louise. They have a small general store, a deli sandwich shop, a post office, some touristy souvenir shops.

We go to the general store to get some stuff we needed to eat and other supplies for our camp. We're in line getting ready to ring up our purchases. The cashier is a late-teen or very early twenty-something young woman. I ask her, before she rings anything up, if they accept travellers checks. She says yes they do, and proceeds to ring up our purchases. With her watching, I sign the travellers check and present it to her. She says, "OH, we don't take American money, this is Canada." Then proceeds to argue with me that I was in the wrong, that I should have travellers checks from a Canadian bank. She told me I would have to discuss my problem with MY BANK!

Why the fuck would I have CANADIAN travellers cheques in Canada?

My husband had enough Canadian cash (barely) to cover the purchase, so we paid and left. Now I'm stuck with a pre-signed travellers check that technically no one should cash. So I went to the post office, where they happened to recognize me from previous visit, and agreed to cash my check. They recommended that I talk to the store manager.

So I went back to the store and asked the cashier to get the manager. Guess what? Manager is a twenty-something young man, who SIDES WITH THE CASHIER and told me I should not be arguing with them. I asked him if he'd ever heard the saying "The customer is always right" and he looked at me like I was crazy!

(not meaning to pick on Canadian youth, I'm sure similar events happen in US all the time!)

[jmowreader]

29. The other side of the coin...

We're not all dumbasses.

I think you'll like this one: Customer comes to the store looking for a Garmin GPS device that she found on the Home Depot website. (They're really there. Trust me on this.) She wants to see the GPS so she can buy it for her husband in Iraq.

"Ma'am, we don't carry GPSes in this store."

And she starts yelling and screaming about how the Home Depot website says we have GPSes so I better take her to the GPSes right now.

Instead, I found a computer and pulled up the Home Depot website--the only website we can access in the store. I found the GPS she wanted. Nice GPS. Lots of features. Including my favorite feature:

AVAILABLE ONLINE ONLY.

So I showed her the screen. Showed her the line about how you could only get it through the website.

"So when are you going to show me the GPS? I want to see it!"

Y'know, folks, the wet/dry vacuums are wonderful things but you really shouldn't suck your brains out with them.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Having spent at least a decade in various retail modes

I can regail you UP AND DOWN with the "other side of the story".

It's only been recently that I've started to come back around to a place where I even feel right about criticizing clearly crappy service, because I know what a shit-pile those folks have to deal with day in and out. :thumbsup:

[Pied Piper]

41. HURRAY!!! Best post in this thread!

I've enjoyed reading about all of the customer service disasters which we've all experienced. However I was so pleased to read the post above, which I think explains much more than appears on the surface.

I have worked in Customer Service in every field in which I've ever been employed. And in each case, I couldn't wait until I was promoted out of Customer Service. I actually sort of liked it, on the rare occasion when I had a pleasant customer to work with. It can actually be fun to work with a nice person, and help them to solve a problem issue.

But one of the posters above asked about the old canard "The customer is always right." Well, I've got news for you. The customer is almost always "wrong", and yes, I mean that. They don't read the signs in the store or the labels on the merchandise. They get in the express lane with a shopping cart full of groceries. And they can't hang up that goddamn cell phone long enough for me to ring up their purchase.

You see, customer service is actually a two-way street. I've actually had customers bang on the counter and shout "Hey! I want some service here!" In those cases, I met there glaring eyes with a smile, then excused myself to the back room, leaving them fuming. And this was not someone who had been waiting around for help. This was someone who marched right up to my counter and started screaming. No customer service rep is going to put up with that shit. I've even had managers support me in this - "We don't allow the customers to abuse the staff."

One summer when I was a kid, I worked as a gate cashier in a water-slide park - a very popular attraction. It was quite common for customers to queue up for 1/2 hour before the park even opened. On the walkway up to the gate there were several kiosks which explained our price structure. One day, a lady and about 4 kids worked their way up to the booth. She asked me "How much for my 4 kids?" Never mind that she had 1/2 hour to do the math on her own. When I gave her the answer, she went into a rage. "How could you possibly charge that much? We're only going to be here for a few hours!" And on and on for 10 minutes. Finally she worked my last nerve and I crossed the line; I expected to be fired for what I was about to say. "Look, bitch, I don't make enough money to take this kind of abuse from you. I don't own the park, I don't set the prices. If you want your little kids to play on the slides, you can pay the fee, or you can take those brats back to the car and go home." Much to my surprise, everyone in line behind her started clapping and cheering. She sheepishly pulled out her wallet and paid the price. I'm sure her kids had a great time.

Whenever I find myself in the need for some good ol' customer service, I play a little game. Like most of the posters above, I've done my homework ahead of time. No matter how pissed off I am about my particular problem, I never take it out on the minimum wage worker I'm about to face. "Excuse me, could you help me please? I seem to have a problem with _____, and I'm not sure who I should speak to about this. Oh, you don't have the authority to issue a refund? Hmm, who should I speak to about this? Oh, is Mr. Smith your manager? Would you mind bringing him to the counter? Thank you so much, you've been very helpful." During the whole conversation, I try to smile through my frown. And low and behold, here comes Mr. Smith, who has been told by his employee that a very friendly Mr. Pied Piper has a problem which requires his attention. Etc., etc.

I'm not trying to say that everyone who has posted on this thread is a horrible customer, most likely the opposite. Just remember that all customer service people have to listen to whiny, complaining, incorrect, and sometimes (often) lying customers all day long. ("It was broken when I opened the box!")


*edit for spelling*

[jmowreader]

47. I always have a better one. Here's today's...

A customer was in the store buying vinyl picket fencing this afternoon. Vinyl picket fencing is made to look pretty--it's not made to take stress. The pickets are glued to the crossbeams with a little dab of glue and you can get them off fairly easily--I've done it with thumb pressure. You need to know this because...

in addition to the vinyl fencing, and the hollow vinyl posts, he's buying all this weird shit you'd never use with a fence...surface mounting kits (which are used with handrail posts) and a few other things.

"Sir, how are you using this?"
'I'm putting a handrail around my deck.'

O shit. O shit. O shit o shit o shit. Okay, kids, guess what happens when you put glued-together, do-not-apply-stress vinyl fencing into an application where it's going to receive stress every time someone uses the deck? (The first one who answers "the person who applied the stress to the fence will fall off the deck and bust their ass when they land" gets a cigar.) So I did my duty and told the guy it wasn't safe to use this as railing.

You'd have thought I told the guy to go do something that verges on anatomical impossibility because he called me so many dirty names so very loudly--see, he already had a hundred feet of this around his deck and, instead of buying the other 50 feet to finish he had to take off all the fencing and replace it with handrail--the district manager, who was in the store today, came running to see what was wrong.

In case you're wondering, I don't feel too much sympathy for someone who's got a deck that needs 150 linear feet of handrail and doesn't ask anyone what needs to be used. Handrail normally goes on three sides; the fourth is attached to the home, so this is a 2500 square foot deck. That's about a thousand sf larger than any home in my whole subdivision. And for what it's worth, the DM didn't feel too sympathetic to his plight either.

[raccoon]

140. That's rude and a power thing,

"I've actually had customers bang on the counter and shout "Hey! I want some service here!" "

IMO, a litmus test of a person's character is how s/he treats people such as retail clerks, wait staff, and other people, who aren't in a position to "fight back" (except at the cost of their jobs, usually).

[omega minimo]

51. Thanks for your POV

Any comments about the communication breakdowns so common in these places and in stories on this thread?

Is the problem training (lack of) more than (mis) education?

:hi:

[jmowreader]

93. There are really four reasons for it

Lack of customer service training is one. We get the guy in, we want to get him on the floor and have him start making money for us.

Poor education is another. And by "poor education" I don't just mean the schools don't teach them anything. I mean they don't teach them anything about construction. How many thousands of schools have been forced, by Reaganomics, Bushanomics or NCLB, to stop teaching shop? Anyone want to guess what a proper educational program for someone wanting to work in the home improvement industry would be? ("Four years of shop" comes to mind real quick.)

The "I don't give a shit" syndrome is a third. As many people have pointed out, retail ain't exactly the best-paying career choice. You run into lots of retail people who take the old Soviet joke "they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work" syndrome.

The biggest one is something most of y'all haven't considered: the breadth of selection in one of those places. There are about 35,000 unique items in any Home Depot store. Lowe's and Menard's are about the same. There is no possible way in the world to have intimate knowledge of all of those things--yet customers expect us to, whether we work in that department or not. I have observed customers walk up to the paint desk and ask them how to install water heaters. I get people who walk from the electrical department to the lumber department (they're at opposite ends of the store) to ask questions about sizing wire for well pumps that are 400 feet from the house. Okay, let me get this straight: you want information about the electrical part of a plumbing device, so you walk past the electrician AND the plumber to ask the lumberman? This makes sense to someone, but it ain't me.

[omega minimo]

112. Good points. So how is the corporate mentality served by using

untrained, uneducated, unmotivated, unintelligible, underprepared, overwhelmed youth to push their product?




:hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm: :think:

[jmowreader]

116. It's not, but who else are we going to get?

The kind of person who would be perfect as a Home Depot associate is very rare: he's got to know how to build every part of a house, how to landscape, how to decorate.

The kind of person who's almost perfect as a Home Depot associate is nearly as rare--maybe someone who can't landscape but knows construction and decor. I think there are six of them in my whole district, and this district has twelve stores in it.

So we're stuck with getting construction virgins in, putting them in a department, training them on that department's stuff, then hoping like hell they don't get attacked with people wanting stuff in other departments before they learn more of the store. Sometimes it works.

[omega minimo]

119. No-- think about it. This IS the way they want it.

[NuttyFluffers]

113. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. THE mandatory post on this topic

been on both sides of the counter and my sympathies now lie firmly on the employees side. it's a shit job, and everyone knows it, and gets way too much flak from both incompetent managers, unfeeling corporate HQs, dipstick drag-ass employee team members, and simply unbearable customers. and you nailed the one big reason people so often miss -- we can't be experts in everything in a store that carries over 1,000 products, many that are wholly unrelated.

if i could nominate posts it would be yours from this topic.

[omega minimo]

114. The job turns 'em into zombies or they were zombies so they took the job?

:shrug:



"......you nailed the one big reason people so often miss -- we can't be experts in everything in a store that carries over 1,000 products, many that are wholly unrelated."

No reasonable person expects them to be "experts." Semi-informed would be a start. Willing to answer or :GASP: find out the answer to an unfamiliar question :wow: would be a miracle.

And it still doesn't explain the language barrier-- or why SOME clerks throw up obstacles instead of even TRYING to help

And if we hear the "they don't get paid enough" line one more time............... with plenty of reasons and responsibility to go around, "associates" don't have to let the job dehumanize them-- unless they already WERE dehumaized. Then we need to look at why we've raised crops of pre-dehumanized children ready for the "crap" corporate treadmill.

[NuttyFluffers]

124. easy, the job turns you into a zombie

remember, unless you are part of a certain magical small % of customers you are deigned, most especially by big box stores -- believe me!, as not worth the time. period. you are the weakest link, goodbye. the rest of the sales $ derives from the casual consumer who is in a perpetual state of confusion, and thus easy to fleece like any sheep.

since casual consumer sales are better derived by catering to a larger volume of these consumers than giving quality service to a small amount of them and fostering quality repeat customers what's the point of wasting time with you? with the questions you ask you create work that doesn't matter, because to the corporate HQ you don't matter. clear enough yet? quantity over quality works, it brings in big $, easy as pie. individual doesn't matter over mass quantity; the employee doesn't matter, the product doesn't matter, the customer doesn't matter, only the rapid processing of sales to bring in $ matters. and that's it -- oh and the advertising to sucker you into the store in the first place.

fight the dehumanizing process, take pride in what you're doing, and deliver quality customer service? you could try, and in smaller stores it could be a very real option, but let's not kid ourselves about the current state of our world. i've been told flat out in interviews for a customer service job that the electronic products they specialize in is low-end consumer, y'know, the gullible, the poor, the grandmas, the ditzes, etc. and my job would be to field as many calls as possible -- not to actually solve anything. the important part was to give the semblance that the company actually bothered with customer service, not to actually provide it. they assumed 70-80% of the calls were from mongoloids, were to be treated as such, and rapidly move on.

i've worked jobs where in the very training manual from the corporate HQ we were told "the customer has no idea what they want. you are there to fill their needs, especially those they didn't know they had." and, "never accept 'no' from a customer, because that means they didn't understand the value they were getting and needed to see the light. always work back to a place where they say 'yes' and try to compound their purchases into a larger sale." and, "if the customer has a question, try to answer it quickly and then go for the sale. if they have more questions reiterate what our {HQ propaganda/product ad/etc} says about it. try to refrain from offering your own opinions about a product, the goal is to make sales and hopefully have the customer compound his value by purchasing more complimentary products. if the customer needs more detailed answers, or has more questions past {insert time here} try to leave the customer to offer service to others, because this customer will likely not purchase now and is taking away time from other customers who are willing to buy now with less effort."

do you get it yet? you are nothing to HQ management. employees have HQ on their back with sadistic middle management climbers, a truckload of product that needs to be vomited on the store floor 5 minutes ago, a deluge of customers who are willing to buy now, no questions asked, a gajillion products to learn *anything* about, around 20+ new products a week coming in (which means you'll never keep up), and then we have to politely smile and nod at a customer who wants to find old fashioned service in a new reality where that's about non-existent. basically it boils down to what i learned from most of my "training": most customers who ask questions waste time and aren't worth the effort. *sometimes* clerks take a liking to some customers and will make the extra effort to give good service, preferrably if the customer seems to know a little something, is sympathetic and entertaining, and knows when to fade away when things get hectic.

does it suck that things are like this? yes. do clerks wish it wasn't so? ... yes, sorta, but we end up surly because too much of humanity isn't worth the piss to put them out if on fire. have we reached a point where we find it hard to care? most definitely. can we change it? yes, shop indie for god sakes (though expect serious snobbishness on occasion. you better offer something to the plate during those times: either be knowledgeable or entertaining)! sorry, welcome to the hell of the modern world. it could be better, but it's going to take a lot more mutual support between the lower levels, a.k.a. employees, independent small business owners, and customers, to change this.

[omega minimo]

126. Your excellent commentary points out that the biggest suckers may be

those willing to take those jobs, selling out, selling their souls, knowing it will suck their brain out, turn them into zombies unless they already are. If they refused, could the whole process continue? If shoppers refused, could it continue?

"do you get it yet? you are nothing to HQ management. employees have HQ on their back with sadistic middle management climbers, a truckload of product that needs to be vomited on the store floor 5 minutes ago, a deluge of customers who are willing to buy now, no questions asked, a gajillion products to learn *anything* about, around 20+ new products a week coming in (which means you'll never keep up)....."

Yeah, I got it a long time ago and do my part to support indies and refuse the corporate crap experience as much as possible.

"...and then we have to politely smile and nod at a customer who wants to find old fashioned service in a new reality where that's about non-existent."

What some here may consider "old fashioned service" or "good service" only amounts to this:

If you say on the phone you will hold something with my name on it til the end of the day, do it.

If your national chain web site brags about your installation service and I drive to your store and you tell me it is the only one that doesn't do installation-- and I ask you to find out if it can be SET UP through your store while I'm there (so I can buy the damn machine and get out of your way) make the call.

If there are certain machines that get the local utility rebate, tell or show me how to identify them. And don't WING IT saying "maybe" or "probably" instead of KNOWING THE SHIT.

KNOW WHAT IS IN THE GODDAMN BOX AND HOW IT INSTALLS. Or provide some info. (That info is not available on the website)

If someone asks you HOW the window holds the unit in, give them a fu*****ng answer beyond "I don't know how it works but it works."


This is all basic stuff, still in the realm of "go the freezer, get the box, look at the label, scan the price, say how it mounts." And if saying how it mounts is TOO COMPLEX AND COMPLICATED AND OLD FASHIONED then ................ :evilfrown:



The beginning of all this was calling Sears and being told "I can see that dept. but they're so busy they probably won't pick up the phone. You can call the installation service-- here's the number."

I call and get a passive-aggressive, ignorant young woman quoted here elsewhere as describing "the process" ENTIRELY from HER point of view. The fax spits out a paper, she looks at the code numbers, hits the computer, makes a phone call for an appt. IT WAS BEYOND HER CAPACITY to explain to the customer anything relevant to THEM-- cost, scheduling, etc.

"I can't give you a price because it's based on the BTU's"

"Okay, what if it was 6,000 BTU's" (most start at 5,000-6,000 to 8,000 to 10,000 for the window units)

"Oh, that would be........."

So there I am at Sears later and the kid tells me the installation charge is "ANYTHING UNDER 13,000 BTU's IS $129.00"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wtf:

Now how hard would it have been for her to say that?

The passive/aggressive bullshit is part of the mystery. Why do these airheads make the customer DO THEIR JOB in trying to get information? (and this btw was a private company that contracts with Sears). From what you say, ANY questions are considered too much-- it doesn't matter if "old fashioned" adults try to translate a question into Clockwork Orangespeak that these corporate spawn might recognize. So why even have people (or zombies pretending to be people) there at all. If it's all self-serve anyway, why do these robot kids even have jobs at all?




They may think they're smarter than the bullshit system they have sold themselves to and that they still have the option to pick up their street cred and soul on their way out the door. They may think treating people -- and being -- like humans is "old fashioned." Maybe they think they're "cool." Maybe those "sadistic middle management climbers, a truckload of product" are breathing down their neck.

But talking to many/most of them is like talking to a brick wall. (You've pointed out many of the reasons). So if they have any integrity, they have to ask themselves why they allow themselves to be like that. Or as a society we have to ask ourselves why we've cloned a legion of soulless zombie children who don't mind that part at all.

[NuttyFluffers]

128. well, if there was a real job market, things could be different.

i remember that there was bad service in big box stores during the dot.com boom, but there was also a lot of startup companies that really tried to change things. there was a lot of excitement and pride, especially around me here in the silicon valley, and people wanted to help. since there was a lot of small businesses being created there was a safety valve so people didn't have to take such shit jobs. things started to improve from the anti-social hell that was the "me, me, me!" 80s.

but it bust, as trends are wont to do, and this admin put nothing in its place. then we started seeing middle aged to near-retirement adults working McJobs, and working more than one, just to scrape by. this younger generation has quite a lot of vapid youth, but for many it's a safety mechanism because they don't see a future in this system. they just want their toys and to be left alone, just like the silent desperation of their parents. is there a real choice out there? i know i'm still looking for a job, and i'm trying desperately to avoid another zombifying McJob, but you know what, my options are getting slim as time passes. things suck out here, and most of my friends are scrambling to get away from this sinking ship of a country. and even a sizable percentage of the dense i've met sense things really blow nowadays.

that website could've changed w/o the store knowing jack diddly squat about it. things go by so fast and hardly anyone can keep up, let alone muster the spirit to even care. i read your experience. yup, sounds familiar. it sucks and i'm sorry to hear about it, but i don't like it as some sort of indictment of people close to my age. there'll always be the slow and the apathetic among us, in all professions it seems. but things are getting really bad at retail, pushing wholly unprepared or unqualified people onto the floor, or grinding what good workers they have into bitter husks. so in the end our society has reduced people into only caring about their toys: those who are buying toys at the cheapest, fastest way possible and damn all those in the way, those who wanna suck up as much greenback by any inhumane means possible to get more toys, and those who are expediters who just want to get away from all this and go back to their toys. if there was a real alternative economic, educational, and civil system in america we could have higher expectations, but we don't anymore. it's all been voted away...

[omega minimo]

129. "They don't see a future in this system"

"this younger generation has quite a lot of vapid youth, but for many it's a safety mechanism because they don't see a future in this system. they just want their toys and to be left alone, just like the silent desperation of their parents."

You absolutely nailed it here. The "safety mechanism" of vapidity that spurred the OP-- the inability to communicate in basic English, the perverse compulsion (because I don't assume "people around your age" are all stupid) to make things as DIFFICULT as possible. Passive/aggressiveness is their only power?! :wow: Weren't their parents the Flower Power Boomers? Who will fight the fight of the "slow and apathetic," left alone with their toys in silent desperation? Who will stand up for them if they don't stand up for themselves?

"so in the end our society has reduced people into only caring about their toys: those who are buying toys at the cheapest, fastest way possible and damn all those in the way, those who wanna suck up as much greenback by any inhumane means possible to get more toys, and those who are expediters who just want to get away from all this and go back to their toys. if there was a real alternative economic, educational, and civil system in america we could have higher expectations, but we don't anymore. it's all been voted away..."

Well, not quite. Here again, out only real choice is the kind of people we want to be, that integrity thing.

[NuttyFluffers]

130. ;) you assume the flower power boomers are respected...

the about-face of the dreams they professed, especially the transformation in the selfish 80s, lead quite a few children coming to see their boomer parents as nothing but fast-talking bullshit artists and hypocrites. apparently everyone has a price, corruption is the order of the day, and the problems created before them have global ramifications -- if even possible to clean up! hey, we're the generations who grew up with the bomb as our only reality; everything up in smoke in an hour. kinda gives you a blase' attitude to life in general.

imagine a quick and desperate discussion in a moment of openness: it's all going to hell in a hand basket, the people in power sat on their asses, the "dreamers, movers, and shakers" got old and worried about padding their IRAs, and we're going to be left holding the check that we cannot even hope to pay. integrity? how adorable! humanity would be lucky to survive 100 years w/o regressing to bronze tools. if it's going to collapse, then let it collapse; it will clean all this crap once and for all. it was all just meaningless distractions anyway, and they're a lot more fun than running the damn broken machine too.

the system is no longer believed in. belief is important, for without it people do not bother with the strength to move forward. it's the cusp of a fallen empire, and pretty much everyone's getting the vibe.

[omega minimo]

141. Many are "fast-talking bullshit artists and hypocrites"

I don't assume they are respected, esp. by their kids.........esp. for "the about-face of the dreams they professed, especially the transformation in the selfish 80s..." (well said)

I was pickin up on what you said here: "they just want their toys and to be left alone, just like the silent desperation of their parents" and comparing Youth (then) to Youth (now). Boom/Yups didn't reach "silent desperation" til later, right?

I get the nihilism bit but the punks had energy and humor-- now kids get catatonia and ennui? If they don't stand up, don't fight, who will?

"humanity would be lucky to survive 100 years w/o regressing to bronze tools. if it's going to collapse, then let it collapse; it will clean all this crap once and for all. it was all just meaningless distractions anyway, and they're a lot more fun than running the damn broken machine too."

Yeah but laying down and waiting for the machine to roll over you, while benefitting from the comforts it provides, while listening to your tunes, playing your games and wearing the right outfits, is pretty bloody lame..........and "spoiled." IMHO lots of kids who play that game take the easy way out and count on things Never Really Getting That Bad. When and if it does they'll be shocked and looking for someone to blame; too late facing that their generation were the ones who let it all go down the tubes.

Thanks for your wisdom!! :hug:

[NuttyFluffers]

145. well, here's a dirty lil' secret: apathy summons entropy and entropy wins.

you may see it as lame and spoiled, but one can also see it as the only guaranteed method of revolution. nothing escapes entropy -- nothing. summoning entropy is another form of fighting, except it is the most impossible thing for any 'enemy' to defeat. by letting things drop into catatonia and ennui (apt and amusing!) events take a life of their own, often ending where the momentum of the machine dissipates and the cogs rusted away into uselessness. entropy defangs overwhelming waves of force.

also, there is also a lot of young people who do want to make things better. but instead of putting effort into things they feel cannot change, they apply themselves to smaller things, more local things, they think they can change. you'll be surprised about the level of community service, environmental and social awareness, and integration of their ideology into their everyday, off-hours lives. just because they don't apply effort in public venues where you interact with them doesn't mean they are devoid of depth. they just gave up on certain areas where change will not be forthcoming until the self-destructive streak ran its course. (caveat: as always though, there'll always be a segment of the population for which there is no excuse)

[omega minimo]

146. The Second Law of Thermomoranics

There is a romantic, indulgent, misguided vanity (the Curse of Youth) in the first paragraph (if Youth actually "see it as the only guaranteed method of revolution. nothing escapes entropy -- nothing") and the only possible antidote in the second "there is also a lot of young people who do want to make things better. but instead of putting effort into things they feel cannot change, they apply themselves to smaller things, more local things, they think they can change.")

Well done. Every other brazillionth post on DU is worth this exchange, like a cultural care package with foreign postmarks, between the heavily demographicized zones. (I finally gave up trying to get any actual answer about "what happened?" from the Boom/Yups.......it's possible they don't actually remember :smoke: :evilgrin: )

Maybe you know more about physics than I do, but the notion that "apathy summons" anything at all sounds like an oxymoron.

"...summoning entropy is another form of fighting, except it is the most impossible thing for any 'enemy' to defeat."

That conceit might convince me if the people I think we're talking about did not simultaneously indulge in all the bullshit they think they are "fighting" with their radical catatonia and ennui ("apt and amusing!" the highest praise! :blush: ) ..............and if they think they are "getting back" by indulging while "fighting" by not giving a shit...... they are ignoring that they are STILL supporting the machine. The kids in the second paragraph are presumably NOT doing that, and it harkens back to the hippie ethic, doesn't it?

BTW, Thomas Frank chronicled all this "radical soda pop" and "Commodify Your Dissent" mindwashing in The Baffler and his other publications. Gotta wonder if all these "radical entropists" ever consider that this whole non-philosophy was sold to them like a pair of sneakers to make sure they think they're doing something by doing nothing at all. Isn't That ConVENient :evilfrown:

"...by letting things drop into catatonia and ennui (apt and amusing!) events take a life of their own, often ending where the momentum of the machine dissipates and the cogs rusted away into uselessness. entropy defangs overwhelming waves of force."

I'm still not buying that. An obscenely popular, lame 70's band sang "Not to choose is still to make a choice." (Proud to say I'm not sure which one). For people who think THAT is the way to be, I'd say Google "Karma."

Again, thanks for the Hands Across DU :yourock:

"just because they don't apply effort in public venues where you interact with them doesn't mean they are devoid of depth."

And however we choose to prop up the machine-- or not-- when we're face to face, let's not forget we're human.

:grouphug:

[JHB]

132. I'm reminded of some stories from Steve Allen's "Dumbth"...

...which dealt with this same topic 30 years ago (it's gotten worse), some of which I nodded in agreement to, and some that seemed to me like Steve carping at the hired help for not being instinctive servants. Most of it (IMHO) boiled down to lack of training (and lack of awareness by management that better training was needed).

[omega minimo]

142. "carping at the hired help for not being instinctive servants."

Interesting point. "Instinctive servants" brings to mind the problem here: Non-responsive robots.

30 years ago Allen'd have "rude," "dumb," "gumsnapper," "nailfiler," "person-with-a-New-York-accent" :evilgrin:........

but now all ya get is:

catatonic state

[JHB]

150. heh

:evilgrin:
<filefilefile><chewchewchew>"Ya'tink Tommy'll cawwwl?"<filefilefile><chewchewchewchew>

I know the type.

[Lorien]

32. Another true story

I took two of my cats to a new vet last year. He asked "Oberon and Puck-what kind of names are those? By "Puck" do you mean a Hockey puck"?

"no, Puck as in "Robin Goodfellow"" I answered. The vet gives me a blank stare, so I continue; "Puck is the hobgoblin from "a Midsummer Night's Dream", Oberon was the king of the fairies from the same story".

"Oh, I think I might have heard of that" the vet replied "who wrote it"?

"Shakespeare" I answer.

The vet frowns "Huh, I never have seen any of his movies".


I now have a different vet.

:banghead:

[omega minimo]

44. "I now have a different vet."

:spray: :spray:

[calico1]

35. I went to the supermarket the other day and

the cashier kept looking at the avocados I bought over and over. When I checked my slip she had rung them up as artichokes.

I can totally see the frustration with customer service, sales people etc. I do not excuse it in any way. But I worked in retail years ago as a p-t job. I worked in JC Penney but after I left there I worked holidays at several different retail stores. For some reason, store management seems to be notoriously rude and they tend to treat the help like shit. The pay is not good for what they expect you to do. Add to that the fact that customers can also be assholes. I had my share. I had things thrown at me, I was threatened once with physical violence. One very unhinged woman screamed at me once and blamed me for her impending divorce. I have had customers pee and poop in the fitting rooms. I have been called a bitch, a retard, a dirty spic and other lovely names. Mind you, unlike what has been described here I was never rude to any customer. I was the type that sucked it up and when I got home it would take me 2 hours to unwind and de-stress if I had had a bad day. It was not all bad. I also met a lot of lovely people working in retail and even made some friends. And I dated a customer once. :) But I am just trying to show that its not all one sided. There is no excuse for rudeness but I think this kind of thing perpetuates itself because a lot of customer service people will get to be nasty if they have had a lot of rude customers. And customers don't like rude salespeople or customer service people so they end up not having patience with them either. Then you have the huge turnaround. Because the pay is so sucky a lot of times what happens is there is so much turnaround that you never have a staff that knows its stuff. In a lot of stores they basically throw people in there. They don't usually send them to training to learn about what they are selling. And on top of that our education system gets worse and worse so even simple things are hard for some service people to understand. Its a mess, and I don't know what the solution is. I have been both a pissed off salesperson and a pissed off customer.

[kestrel91316]

43. One problem we DON'T have in SoCal.....................

"......the cashier kept looking at the avocados I bought over and over. When I checked my slip she had rung them up as artichokes."

[omega minimo]

46. ARTICHOKES!!!

:spray: :rofl:
:bounce:


Oh that's really sad.........................................


Great story! You make important points too.

"In a lot of stores they basically throw people in there. They don't usually send them to training to learn about what they are selling. And on top of that our education system gets worse and worse so even simple things are hard for some service people to understand."

That's absolutely right and that's why I AM nice to these kids, patient as I try to figure out how to ask a question in a version of the English language that they will understand. The examples on this thread of how CERTAIN clerks can be about something that's totally WRONG show what the real problem is. These kids aren't "rude" as much as -- sorry to say it -- inarticulate and uncomprehending. Yes I called them nimrods in the thread but I know that they are a PRODUCT and a SYMPTOM of this sociey. Not ALL their fault. The shocker this week was how LIMITED many of them really are.

[SmokingJacket]

37. This is why a person should shop independent businesses

... whenever possible. People should go out of their way to support them!

No one working in a big box store has *any* direct investment in what happens there. Usually they get fewer than twenty hours a week, and with thousands of products in the typical store, how can they become familiar with the products? And with minimum wage, what's the motivation?

Twenty years ago, people with poor communication skills might find a decent job in manufacturing or agriculture. Now, ALL the jobs are service oriented, even if you're not a service person.

Don't blame the people who work there -- they're just trying to get by with a sucky, mind-numbing job. Blame the corporations who pay too little, don't give enough hours, and who use up people like yesterday's paper.


... in fact, as a clerk in an independent bookstore, I find this thread kind of gross and insulting. You know who I blame for the poor service in big boxes, ultimately? THOSE WHO SHOP THERE!! You who shop in those huge, ugly, impersonal, minimum-wage-paying boxes because it's "convenient" or to save $3.00.

People... you can't have it both ways. You can't have the convenience and cheap prices of big boxes AND the excellent customer service of an independent store.

[omega minimo]

49. I do-- which allows me to mostly avoid these corporate robot moments

which made it more of a shock to have these run-ins with people and realize that customers are having their shopping HOBBLED not helped, by the people in "customer service." Since I avoid these places, and this was everywhere I went, it's GOT to be happening all the time to everybody. As you say, folks who support it with their $$$ are part of the problem.

As the OP said, I HAD to buy an AC fast to survive this heat. This was the most feasible way to do it immediately and (I want to shout this, please, but won't) That's Why Having Dummies Throw Up Roadblocks In Every Conversation And Almost EVERY FUCKING SENTENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (oops B-) ) was a problem.

"Don't blame the people who work there -- they're just trying to get by with a sucky, mind-numbing job. Blame the corporations who pay too little, don't give enough hours, and who use up people like yesterday's paper."

"No one working in a big box store has *any* direct investment in what happens there. Usually they get fewer than twenty hours a week, and with thousands of products in the typical store, how can they become familiar with the products? And with minimum wage, what's the motivation?"


I agree with you. But we all --including people who LET that sucky job numb their mind, if the school system hasn't already-- are part of this.

What's the motivation?

Remaining human.

[ourbluenation]

45. Haven't you heard? Cheap labor is the answer to everything. pass the

savings on to us!!!!


Bwahahahahaha!

[ContraBass Black]

50. How are these different from older people in customer service?

If stupidity and ignorance were parts of youth, we'd all be monumentally screwed decades from now instead of being monumentally screwed today.

[omega minimo]

52. basic communication skills

or not.


"If stupidity and ignorance were parts of youth, we'd all be monumentally screwed decades from now instead of being monumentally screwed today."

Braindead youth cloned to serve corporate masters weren't created overnight!!!!!! :spray:

see impeachdubya's comments about Reagan/Greed Is Good (not sure which post #)


And like the quote in the OP "If you think this is scary, just wait til these people are runnin things."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. I blame the pop culture, which tells you that it's important to:

1) Wear the right clothes and have the right hairstyle
2) Be familiar with all the current big-budget products of the entertainment industry (network TV, blockbuster movies, video games, Top 40 radio)
3) Participate in team sports and think of pro sports as being of supreme, earthshaking importance
4) Attract the opposite sex
5) Eat at fast food and "family restaurant" chains that serve all-you-can-eat French fries while somehow retaining a Baywatch bod
6) Look down on anyone who doesn't fit the criteria above

and that it's not important, perhaps even undesirable, to

1) Know things that are not currently on the radar of the entertainment industry, such as art, non-commercial music, literature, science, history, geography, current events, etc.
2) Speak in complete English sentences with a sufficient vocabulary to survive in a variety of situations instead of being monolingual in Nimrodish. "And he goes, 'It's like, you know, so fuckin', you know...' and I'm like, 'I hear you, dude,' and he goes..."
3) Know how to behave in public in situations other than hanging around with your friends
4) Read books and otherwise manifest intellectual curiosity

Above all, the commercial pop culture wants dutiful little consumers, not informed, independent thinkers. If the majority of Americans ever became informed and independent, all the mass market crap merchants would be in big trouble.

(I also blame lazy parents who give in to the pop culture instead of even trying to resist it or counter its effects.)

[omega minimo]

55. I'm all like, I hear ya, Dudette

:evilgrin:


you nailed it :thumbsup:

"If the majority of Americans ever became informed and independent, all the mass market crap merchants would be in big trouble."

[Strelnikov_]

54. Um, I Think Henry Rollins Just Channeled Your Post

in his 'Teeing Off' segment.

uh . . .

Henry, is that you?

[omega minimo]

57. Wha'd I say?

:popcorn:

"Um, I Think Henry Rollins Just Channeled Your Post"

And your sigline sums it up nicely:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

:hi:

[Strelnikov_]

59. Basically, That He Would Rather Deal With Machines

(self check out, internet purchase) than the employees you run into at retail today.

Presented in Henry's unique way, of course.

[omega minimo]

61. They act like machines

Here's to bein on the same channel :toast:

[theanarch]

72. i got news for ya...

...i recently did a trip to the grocery store (Acme), and upon paying for the purchase, got my change from the automatic change dispenser (seems basic math skills are beyond the abilities of most cashiers, in addition to the deficiencies of language): guess what? i got the WRONG amount of change!!! Since it overpaid me, i just pocketed it and left...but ever since, i count it every time, just to make sure i'm not being shorted.

[omega minimo]

74. "Open The Pod Bay Door, HAL."

"Open The Pod Bay Door."





"HAL."














"HAL?"

[madeline_con]

60. My personal approach

would be to get on the web. I'd figure out what size, type, etc. item I needed. Then I'd check the major chains' sites, to see what they have that came close. Then, I'd ask a couple people about any local sales, etc at the appliance stores.

Armed with my bit of knowledge, I'd go shopping, expecting very little in the way of help from store personnel, except the typical, "If it's not on the shelf, we don't have it."

I've found that as I get older, I'm more apt to email corporations or ask for management when things just suck. Things actually happen sometimes.

We got a $15.00 gift certificate from a grocer because a wormy little manager guy got an attitude with my husband about the turlkey that was on sale in the flyer, and mysteriously unavailable at the store.

[Nevernose]

65. What "rupturing school system?"

The conventional wisdom is wrong. Schools are not in nearly as great a shape as they could be, but, overall, they are hardly "rupturing." If anything, they are just the symptom,, and far from the cause, of where American values now lie.

Bush administration muffles education report contradicting its official policy

A federally funded study shows that children in public elementary and middle schools generally did as well in reading and math as private school pupils - findings that were not praised by the U.S. Education Department.

In fact, a recent story by The New York Times notes, Education Department officials released the results of the study last Friday afternoon without the usual news conference or comment. That the report was released in this manner suggests that federal education officials were less than thrilled with a study that undermines the Bush administration's support for charter schools and taxpayer-funded private school vouchers.

The study, conducted for the Education Department's National Center for Education Statistics, compared the reading and math skills of fourth- and eighth-graders in private and public schools. A second tier of the study compared the public school students to those who attended private Lutheran or Catholic institutions and, at the eighth-grade level, also included a separate comparison for conservative Christian schools.

Overall, fourth-graders in public schools did as well as their private school counterparts in reading and did a little better in math. Among eighth-graders, private school pupils did better in reading than those in public school. In math, this grade level was even, except that Lutheran school pupils did better than public or the other private schools. Conservative Christian school eighth-graders were on par with public schoolers in reading but fared poorer in math skills.

While the study's preparers called the results "of modest utility," the research does strongly suggest that public schools are better than what the Bush administration has led Americans to believe in its push for tax-funded private school vouchers and its failing No Child Left Behind Act.

It would seem that the Education Department - the highest level of public education administration - would have been crowing about this report. Instead, they released it in the middle of summer on a Friday afternoon. That's the news equivalent of releasing it in the middle of the night. Evidently, federal education officials didn't want this report to gain public attention. Maybe that's because it doesn't support President Bush's version of the truth.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/editorials/2006/jul/19/566649777.html

[omega minimo]

78. Two words

"Teach to the Test"

[Nevernose]

87. One word:

Ouch.

[omega minimo]

88. plus two letters:

Touche :hi:

[allalone]

69. low wages, uneducated, corporations

all easy excuses for sloppy work. What happened to doing the best job you can. It's called work ethic. How can you have any self respect or self esteem if you just drag around thinking, they don't pay me enough. I never did work subject to the level that I was paid. I did my best. The kids that are doing a sloppy job now are going to be in for a rude awakening someday.

[omega minimo]

79. YOU NAILED IT

"How can you have any self respect or self esteem if you just drag around thinking, they don't pay me enough."

[BR_Parkway]

89. And in so many ways, we've allowed this change to happen, look at

this statement from an upper post (even though I agree with almost everything else they've posted on this thread):

There was a time when grown men were forced to sell air conditioners. They knew about the BTU's and wattage and all that stuff (I'm just guessing here, because, as I've already admitted, I don't know how it is that air conditioners work myself. Liquid and condensation and something something, I'm sure.) These men are gone, or retired, and we should ask ourselves if it isn't for the better. There are certain advantages to how the current system works. For one thing, these kids find selling air conditioners (or whatever) for their giant corporation dehumanizing, but can you imagine what it would be like if adults were forced to do so? Even if they were paid real wages?

Wow. Grown men were forced to do this? And it was a dehumanizing job? Think about that for a second. We have totally devalued almost every job in this country that required people to work with their hands or that is normally classified as 'blue collar'. My dad used to work at Sears as an appliance repairman back in the late 70's. Not a job I'd like - but he did. He used his hands, he enjoyed trying to figure out what was wrong and got satisfaction from fixing it. He also provided us a nice home (no shack, no McMansion) 2 cars (both used and he kept them running) and all the basics required to raise 4 kids while my Mom stayed home until the youngest went to school.

I can remember calling him one night a few years back as I was sitting there paying the bills and asking him how in the hell they managed to do that. He laughed, then said it wouldn't be possible today. But I digress. The point is that when we had people who got a job they were suited for, that they enjoyed - we got better service. They've been replaced with a 'it's cheaper to throw it away' culture and a bunch of people who confuse the purchases that they want with the things that they need. We look down on a plumber or electrician as somehow not having a good job. The factories have closed and those jobs outsourced - but we still have the middle class blue collar workers that actually enjoyed that type of work who now are forced to take the only thing they can find. And we're going into another generation that has somehow been convinced that the only proper definition of success is to have a college education, buy all the crap shown on your TV scream and not to worry if anything lasts - you can buy a bigger/better model tomorrow at a cheaper price.

I'm lucky enough to live in a smaller town now, and I shop locally. In 3 years, I haven't had to go to any big boxes for anything

[omega minimo]

102. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Beautiful post.

What's been lost too is the notion of pride in what you do, even if the job conditions are crap.

Another post said that in the past, uneducated people could get a job in agriculture or something and "now all the jobs are service oriented" so Those People are working these jobs.............................. That's not who is in these jobs! It's college kids with a sense of entitlement and lack of pride.

Your post has all the elements of solutions and stands on its own. Could just say :thumbsup:

"The factories have closed and those jobs outsourced - but we still have the middle class blue collar workers that actually enjoyed that type of work who now are forced to take the only thing they can find."

And consider what happens to American ingenuity and inventions?! when nobody MAKES stuff!

:hi:

[Alcibiades]

70. Zappa wrote the song "Flakes" in 1979

So what we have here is not new. Granted, "flakes" seems to be about repair persons, whereas this thread is about customer service: also, there's some stuff in the song that is decidedly anachronistic, such as the line "We're protected by unions," but, on the whole, the sentiments Zappa expressed nearly 30 years ago mirror those on this thread.

That said, I still blame television.

[omega minimo]

76. Smashing Pumpkins wrote the song "1979"

:yourock:


I can hear it: "We're proTECTed by UNions."

"...........decidedly anachronistic" indeed.

[Alcibiades]

96. The other anachronistic element is

the bit that goes "All what we got here is American made/ It's a little bit cheesy but it's nicely displayed." Almost nothing's actually American made any more.

[B3Nut]

122. They can't fix your brakes

You ask 'em "where's my motor?"
Well it was eaten by snakes

:spray:

You can stab and shoot and spit, but they won't be fixin' it...

Todd in Beerbratistan :beer:

[allalone]

71. I've told rude snotty salesgirls

that they might want to reconsider their career choice.

[progressivebydesign]

137. Hi Mom! I just did that the other day.. the apple doesn't fall far.. etc.

I was in a lovely creperie the other day. the girls were nice, and college-aged. The food was lovely. While the girls were helpful, two off duty employees were sitting there talking to the clerks while I was deciding what to order. They spent the entire time dissing customers for ordering "wrong", and generally pissing about bad customers.. while I was standing there. The girl said, "are you ready to order?", I said nicely, looking around "I'm AFRAID to, what if I do it wrong???". They laughed and continued on their indictment of customers... After I got my crepe, I said "I imagine you're all in college", she said yes, I said "I hope you study hard so you can get into a business where you don't have to work with the public". I smiled sweetly and laughed.

Seriously.. how dumb could you be to diss customers while customers were standing right there? All businesses need a real manager onsite at all times..

[Pale Blue Dot]

81. Listen - I manage a retail store.

We pay our employees absolutely the bare minimum that we can get away with - all, thanks to Walmart, in the name of keeping our prices low for the customer. What kind of employee do you think we get at minimum wage, or even slightly higher? We get kids, who are too young to care (just as 90% of us were at that age), and adults who obviously have major problems to be working for low wages at a job were you get treated like shit by everybody.

Americans want excellent service, but they don't want to pay for it. Bullshit. Stop shopping at the big boxes, pay a little more to shop locally.

[omega minimo]

85. OOps wrong thread!

Seems you didn't read the thread much. This is about WHY CAN'T THESE PEOPLE COMMUNICATE AT A BASIC LEVEL. "Excellent service"!!?!! Please. Read the thread.

As for where to shop, see #49

"Americans want excellent service, but they don't want to pay for it. Bullshit. Stop shopping at the big boxes, pay a little more to shop locally."

Your snark is on the wrong thread.

[Javaman]

82. They ARE the ones in charge...

:scared:

[Oilwellian]

83. I've never had a problem such as you've described

You're making a very blanket statement of my children's generation. From what I see, they're working 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet. Most I know have college degrees and they're LUCKY if they get a decent job w/benefits. Customer Service isn't exactly a dream job and I suspect your negative attitude towards these young adults has a lot to do with the problems you experience with them. What you see in others is a reflection of yourself.

[omega minimo]

86. That's very true

It's a reflection of my ability to use the language known as English with verbs and nouns and concepts and stuff...........................................and I don't speak Nimrodish.

You're fortunate to "never had a problem such as you've described" in business, in a store, on the phone, in the bank, etc............ or tried figure out how to translate English to Nimrodish-- "How can I say this in a way that this person will comprehend and POSSIBLY be able to respond to."



What's interesting here is the number of people who have the attitude of "customer service isn't exactly a dream job" or "they're not paid enough or treated well so that's why" they act like they're braindead....... Sounds like maybe some of this "blanketed generation" and their apologists have an twisted sense of entitlement while they are VOLUNTEERING to be screwed over by the corporate mold.

60 Minutes did a piece on your children's generation and that sense of entitlement and the rude shock coming to college graduates these days.

We can only hope a college degree is a sign of some improved communication skills. :notgonnahappen:

[EFerrari]

90. It's terrifying! Doug has a ten minute bit about this experience

and I don't know if I can reproduce it very well but --

He goes into a fast food to buy a chicken sandwich. Cashier can't work the register. (He turns head to read upside down name tag)

"Look -- um, Mandy, -- the picture of the food is on the f*ckin' keys! What is that, a Fisher Price cash register?"

"We should just give the job to THE CHICKEN!" (Does a chicken pecking the sale up on the register.

:rofl: )

[omega minimo]

103. Would you like Freedom Fries with that?

Today my friend tells me about calling yesterday the 24-hour emergency # for her AC service.

"We're too busy to come today-- you'll have to call back tomorrow."

--"Can you just put me on the list for tomorrow."

"Oh, OK."

(Today, they don't come). Calls -- "I was put on the list for service for today."

"Oh we don't have a list and whoever told you that was misinformed."

:banghead:



It seems we DID give the job to the chicken :evilgrin: no wait :evilfrown:

[EFerrari]

110. Lol! I used to have to call an emergency number

when Doug was sunfishing on me.

They had 48 hour wait.

It isn't funny or shouldn't be funny but what else can you do?

:rofl:

/w

[omega minimo]

111. Two Minutes Hate? Victory Gin? American Idol?

:bounce:
:bounce:

[JNelson6563]

91. Another perspective

First off, let us remember, a staff member is only as good as their training.

Secondly, I would like to add that there are a whole lot of stupid older people out there too. Stupidity and bad attitude are wrongly applied to young people only! That glazed look in the eyes coupled with the slack jaw is something I see in all age groups in the retail sector. The difference is that the older ones have no hope. If they are into their 40s and still moronic, there's no hope. At least the younger idiots have a chance to evolve. Additionally, the older idiots tend to have the added feature of bitchiness that the young haven't mastered nearly as impressively.

I'd like to add that I spent over 20 years in the retail sector, most of them as management. Lazy managers hire just about anyone and don't see to proper training. Management that gives a shit will hire better candidates and provide decent training.

Julie

[omega minimo]

104. If we're lucky

"At least the younger idiots have a chance to evolve."


"Lazy managers hire just about anyone and don't see to proper training. Management that gives a shit will hire better candidates and provide decent training."

That's true. What's being looked at here is how do so many staff in so many businesses make the process MORE difficult every step of the way? Even if they're not trained, wouldn't someone with a brain figure out how not to be a passive/aggressive bonehead?

:hi:

[misternormal]

92. Best Buy has no help for it's sales staff...

... when it comes to new products...

I worked at a Best Buy to get some extra holiday money, and for the products that were for sale, there were no brochures, or any product information for the sales staff to read to help with questions by customers... The staff had to look the products over, and figure them out on their own so that they could answer even the simplest questions... God forbid a customer ask a sales associate if a 35mm camera had a copal focal plane shutter.

I say it is the fault of the big box stores in not providing the necessary training... Not everyone is a painter, nor have a degree in photography.

[Tracer]

94. A couple of things re the original poster.

- From the look of his posts, he's got something of a temper problem which, no doubt, added to his problems at the store.

- Although I've occasionally run into inexperienced clerks, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. My local "big box" home improvement store is generally staffed by knowlegeable older guys who can directly you immediately to what you are looking for. Never, have I had a problem there.

- Air conditioners are very easy to install, unless you don't know which end of a screwdriver to use. The one I've got has exactly ONE BRACKET and TWO SCREWS. How hard is that?

[omega minimo]

106. Perhaps you can't consider this phenomenon without your own

"temper problem."

"Air conditioners are very easy to install, unless you don't know which end of a screwdriver to use. The one I've got has exactly ONE BRACKET and TWO SCREWS. How hard is that?"


I was polite and friendly to all these folks-- although it takes extra energy in weeklong 100+ degree weather to do THEIR job for them, trying to ask a question in a way that might actually get a response.

The question was not about one person's story but about how "everyone" (except you and another older man on this thread) has a story-- and how anything gets done if every errand or business transaction is 1 step forward, 5 steps back.

"- Air conditioners are very easy to install, unless you don't know which end of a screwdriver to use. The one I've got has exactly ONE BRACKET and TWO SCREWS. How hard is that?"

Different models install differently. Different homes have different needs. Asking how it's held in place in the window is basic information.

I made a second trip (after getting basic info he couldn't provide) and bought from the guy at Sears. Did what we're all supposed to do-- walk in, point at the item, pay the money and leave. I thanked him for his help. To be polite.

Thank you. :hi:

[Tracer]

117. So --- what did the guy at Sears tell you?

"One bracket, two screws"?

:hide:

[omega minimo]

120. Not even that.

"I don't know how it works, but it works."

:puke:

[alcibiades_mystery]

97. Is this another Gifted and Talented thread?

:evilgrin:

:hide:

[omega minimo]

107. Yes. How are today's bright youth being traumatized into catatonia?

:hi:

[Horse with no Name]

98. I went to Circuit City in Rockwall

I wanted to buy a CHEAP CD player for my daughter's car.
They had one on sale for $69 that included a set of speakers.
I asked the poorly trained sales clerk if this was a decent player.
He said not really.:wtf:
He then tried to get me to purchase the more expensive one.
I told him that I just wanted something that would play a CD.
So I told him I would take the cheap one.
He went to get it and ring it up. I told him not to forget the speakers.
He said "what speakers"?
I said the free ones that were advertised to go with it.
Without missing a beat, he said "Oh we are out of those."
I asked what he was going to replace them with?
He said they weren't going to.
However, the advertised special was the stereo AND speakers.
Anyway, I asked to speak to the store manager.
The guy came over and told me he was the manager (he was all of 20 yrs old).
He said, by the way, they were out of the stereo too.
I didn't believe a word either one of these idiots said.
I asked him if he was the manager. He said yes. I asked if he was THE GENERAL STORE MANAGER.
He said yes again.
I asked him who his boss was, he gave me a name. I asked when he would be there, he said Monday.
So, I asked again, if he was the manager. He said he was the service manager. I told him he lied by saying he was the store manager. He said no, he was acting manager.:banghead:
I will probably just find one on Ebay or something.
Who needs that kind of grief?

[omega minimo]

108. There it is! And what percentage of errands, biz calls, end up as

:yoiks: :banghead: :wow: :cry: :dunce: :banghead: :banghead:

[porphyrian]

101. But, they are Good Consumers, programmed according to plan. - n/t

[omega minimo]

109. Sad Truth. "There's a Sucker born every minute."

[rucky]

105. Maybe if we quit shopping at big box stores,

we could get service from people who have a stake in the sales?

I had a broken screen on my window, and just assumed that the best chance to match the size and latch style was at Lowe's. I get there, and figure out on my own that they don't even carry window screens. I end up at the local Tru-Value (owner-operated) and they repaired it for me on the spot. I didn't even think it could be repaired.

Why are we tempted to go to these big-box stores to save a couple bucks? It rarely works out to be worth it.

[progressivebydesign]

138. I don't do box stores...

I have a recurring nightmare of being trapped in a windowless, airless, lifeless, concrete, box. Hate those places! I try to shop locally as much as possible.

[ellie]

123. Poor customer service is my one pet peeve

I used to go to Starbucks every day near my house. But I was so tired of the eye rolling and the sighing from the baristas there, not to mention that they got my drink wrong every time, I stopped going. It's not as if I was ordering a dry martini. I was ordering coffee. Their raison d'etre. I complained and complained about these idiots to the corporate office, but to no avail. So to save myself the aggravation that throwing $3+ out the window gets you while being talked down to, I stopped going. Screw them.

[Hidden Stillness]

125. Um, Like--What is This Thread About?

Hi, omega minimo. Haven't posted on one of your threads for a little while; I briefly left because of the "Survey Finds Women Approve of Abusing...(etc.)" thread crap, where they deleted my messages, but left the hateful, snide attacks from the male with "new" poster name, etc. I really appreciated your classy response on my behalf on that thread, and was going to thank you, but when I noticed that they had deleted everything I wrote, I was so shocked, didn't understand why, and left for a few weeks; have been back for a little while. Regardless, thank you, and Hi again. You are great. (By the way, excuse the late reply on this--for the past several days, I have had phone problems, therefore no connection to internet; totally dead for several days. Just now corrected.)

Although this thread is about customer "service" (God help us), I think it could just as easily be extended to include any number of other behaviors, and I also agree with the opinion that TV and other media are to blame. I have been thinking about this for a long time, about tactics that are used on TV for example, that actually short-circuit and "atrophy" the more complicated critical-awareness type thinking, and replace it all with a kind of simple, brain-dead visual, suitable for remembering product close-ups. As anyone knows, who has done any original, analytical thinking, the first signs of a new perspective or understanding on things, can be very muddled, complex, unformed--even so ethereal and un-stated that you can barely keep your mind on the developing thought except by memory cues--and often mixed with many levels of reference and relation in your mind. These new perceptions sometimes come at you so fast that you can barely keep it all straight until later, when it starts to settle down. Only later, as you think and think and understand your own new thought better, does it start to clear up, and you can describe it with words. A new way of telling an old familiar thing, by necessity is like a thought that is all implication, a clear (that is, "not resting anywhere yet") but implied meaning, with a vast, "under-level" of further, implied meaning. You can't possibly express it all, but only follow the one single thread you were currently trying to manifest. You get the idea.

Now along comes a several-hours-a-day, steady diet of TV (and internet, radio, etc.), which is vastly different since the '80s and the corporate takeover of our "culture," as they used to call it. Just a few examples of the threat, (this could go on forever), of this replacement of individual thought arrived-at, with a general, commercial presentation placed in your mind, until you cannot remember anymore what your own references and guideposts used to be: Eventually, when other people do all your thinking for you, give you ready-made opinions on issues and "reasons" for things, you find later that you can't even remember the steps of reasoning that it took to get there, what the real reasons for some of these things are, what your real opinions even are anymore. You have lost your own personal premises for things, and just have the corporate ad-campaign propaganda popping up whenever you try to think. It is like the way a commercial music video will ruin your own conception of a song, kill your own imaginative connection to it, replace it with their "consumer-control devices," and take it away from you completely and make it theirs. Eventually, if you are really under the sway of the corporate media, you come to feel that you "just can't" think any old thing you want to, but you have to be instructed or shown how to "do it correctly"--like all the endless "how to be acceptable" books written by people who don't know anything about it--because a thought is not your own anymore; it is their commercial property.

The corporate experience becomes All: taxes="bad"; freedom="brand-name selection"; government="roadblock"; labor unions="old '60s Socialists"; beauty pageants and pornography="empowerment for women"; corporations and commercial products="the good, fun people, where we want to be, and the hand that feeds us and how grateful we are for even a crumb, because we don't deserve it, we are not productive enough"; etc. This is a generation that does not even know anymore that that is bullshit--they have never even heard anyone else's side of the story, or that there even is any other side. They were raised to be constrained and stupid, non-readers, non-thinking, and most of them are, to some large degree. The only important thing is, "How do I look, and is there a product or technology for it?" The total, psychological message from commercial media is anti-intellectual, ignorant, sneering yet inhibited by sneering of others, and immoral/amoral, exploiting and even using the most debased attitudes that people have, to get sales--and there is no concern whatsoever for the devastating consequences for society or individual mind.

Every single thing shown on TV is shown as a vulgar, extreme close-up, and you can just follow "news" reports, as they go from one reference to another, and show a fucking visual for every single thing they describe, as if you cannot think at all until it is presented to you, it is now so hard to do. This completely kills the true quick complexity of higher thought, and instead installs this slow, dead non-response until you are led directly to it. Sports on TV is now so boring (to me, anyway), because anytime anything happens, they rush zooming-in on it so fast, so stupidly until the one fragment of the play enlarges and takes up the whole fucking screen--like, "Find it yet, asshole?"--that it is as if no one has a brain at all anymore, and we must all be led by the nose to everything that will be presented to us by "the decider." Equally, all these close-ups that remove the sense of place or a larger, outside world control the parameters of what you will see, think, and believe exists. Also, when you have been so co-opted in your own mind this way, and you lose your centered sense of self, and thinking from your own perspective, maybe the only way you can fight back after all the mind-ripping is to be "bratty" (desperate?) about it, and declare to the world, as no real adult needs to, "Nobody's gonna tell me what to do," etc., because of course, that was exactly what happened, and now you can't get it back.

Visuals have replaced research itself on "documentaries" on TV, so that there is no longer a book-like structure of explaining a story, so you will at the end feel that you now understand something; now there is post-production over-editing by computer, quick-cuts and flipping the camera around (to show us all how "exciting" something is), and stupid rock or etc. music. I don't know how many times I have waited for a "news" story on some important issue, gotten the fake "personalized" treatment--("Cindy knew she was in trouble when her bills started piling up...blah-blah-blah...")--flippy, too-close close-ups, dragging the camera on the fucking ground, etc., etc., until I get so annoyed at the lack of content, the lack of a focus, that I turn the fucking thing off, "jerked around" again. If you have any real memories of how informative TV news used to be, 1970s and before, then you realize, angrily, how impossible it is to think that anyone would become anything but stupid and uninterested after all this crap. I even remember cartoons, comic books and novelty rock and roll songs that had actual historical references, and a fun, educational value to them. Have you listened to popular music lyrics for the last 20 years: God, where is the imagination, the individual thought, even the basic, worded thought-construction?

You could go on and on, depressingly. We are now witnessing the fruits of the corporate takeover--to their own selfish ends--of what once were the public airwaves for our society's good. From Rupert Murdoch trying to make us slaves, to the bastard Gates breaking laws, cheating all the taxes away (for the peons to pay), fighting to deregulate everything, violating anti-trust laws all over the world--then being called a "saint" by the same corporate media for giving "charity" to "deserving" peons, when really we should have been taking it out of these rich capitalists as heavy taxes, where we will tell them what the money will be used for--all of them are equally guilty; all of them profit by increasingly constraining our worlds, our opportunities, and then our ability to even think of them. I agree that all jobs, for all types, are all being converted to underpaid, "service the customer" jobs, selling increasingly all-foreign-made items, and with no training on the multiples of products for sale or how they work. That would mean that management would come out of their private meetings with only each other, and interact with the workers--so that isn't going to happen. A long post, that could go on even longer, but you get the idea--it is larger than a frighteningly stupid workforce; it is going to be everything, eventually. As soon as the corporations took over the entire public sphere, turning it all to propaganda to keep us all ignorant and under control, where the only interest of all "demographics" is to buy things, then the die was cast--except like, you'll have to ask somebody else for information on that.

I also hate these bratty, brain-dead types, but I think it was the eventual, inevitable consequence of a society "run by corporations," and not created by the people, from themselves, anymore. All this "I don't know," "Ask somebody else," "Everything is so boring," "I can't concentrate," "I hate politics," "I haven't got time to help you, and why don't you do it yourself," "Gimme gimme gimme," "Me, Me, Me," (both selfishly/with greed, and also endless self-contempt and criticism), "Get out of my way, I'm late," "Nothing is wrong, if it works," and all the rest, knowing the brand names for everything, and understanding nothing, began as soon as the only thing broadcast or published anymore, was an endless and increasingly speeded-up sales pitch, moving product, sales, advertising, flashing, quick-cuts, display the product, eternally.

[omega minimo]

127. Hoh. Nudda. Lebba.

It's a Whole. Nutha. Lebel. when HS shows up to help me shut one of these things down :hug: :evilgrin: And it was a great seminar. I love it when we get divergent voices and seem to hear each other.

This is a brilliant post that I would underline again and again-- a stunning critique of the origins of the pacification of youth.

"This is a generation that does not even know anymore that that is bullshit--they have never even heard anyone else's side of the story, or that there even is any other side."

Many have no idea how constrained they are-- and some of us have no idea how functionally limited they are. I DON'T assume they are "stupid" and I do my web research first and I am polite to them, like anyone else in a business or pubic setting. The overload of heat, smog, corporate crapitude and shockingly stunted communication skills converged last week.

You've hit on so many points. And my curiosity in the OP was about the customers who put up with this everyday, allthetime, everyerrand, everypurchase, everytransaction, everyphonecall, everyappointment, everydoctorvisit................ :aaarrrrgghhhhh: How do people deal with it? AND curiousity about the kids and what it feels like to be behind that curtain of resentment/fear/miseducation/brainwashing/paranoia/repression and/or medication? The porch light is on-- is anybody home?

"Although this thread is about customer "service" (God help us), I think it could just as easily be extended to include any number of other behaviors, and I also agree with the opinion that TV and other media are to blame. I have been thinking about this for a long time, about tactics that are used on TV for example, that actually short-circuit and "atrophy" the more complicated critical-awareness type thinking, and replace it all with a kind of simple, brain-dead visual, suitable for remembering product close-ups."

What more is there to say? :applause:

"Eventually, when other people do all your thinking for you, give you ready-made opinions on issues and "reasons" for things, you find later that you can't even remember the steps of reasoning that it took to get there, what the real reasons for some of these things are, what your real opinions even are anymore. You have lost your own personal premises for things, and just have the corporate ad-campaign propaganda popping up whenever you try to think. It is like the way a commercial music video will ruin your own conception of a song, kill your own imaginative connection to it, replace it with their "consumer-control devices," and take it away from you completely and make it theirs."

Uh huh. So this is why the zombie children are so blank and can't imagine what we're going on about when they can't respond to simple English?

"Eventually, if you are really under the sway of the corporate media, you come to feel that you "just can't" think any old thing you want to, but you have to be instructed or shown how to "do it correctly"--like all the endless "how to be acceptable" books written by people who don't know anything about it--because a thought is not your own anymore; it is their commercial property."

WHO MOVED MY CHEESE!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The corporate experience becomes All: taxes="bad"; freedom="brand-name selection"; government="roadblock"; labor unions="old '60s Socialists"; beauty pageants and pornography="empowerment for women"; corporations and commercial products="the good, fun people, where we want to be, and the hand that feeds us and how grateful we are for even a crumb, because we don't deserve it, we are not productive enough"; etc."

"Reagan=president," "Ketchup=vegetable," "Poor people=Welfare Queens," "Death squads=Freedom fighters," "Missiles=Peacekeepers,"War=Peace," "Ignorance-Strength," "Freedom=Slavery," "Bush=Decider."

How are kids supposed to NOT become zombies in this level of mindfucking?

"This is a generation that does not even know anymore that that is bullshit--they have never even heard anyone else's side of the story, or that there even is any other side. They were raised to be constrained and stupid, non-readers, non-thinking, and most of them are, to some large degree. The only important thing is, "How do I look, and is there a product or technology for it?""

"Every single thing shown on TV is shown as a vulgar, extreme close-up, and you can just follow "news" reports, as they go from one reference to another, and show a fucking visual for every single thing they describe, as if you cannot think at all until it is presented to you, it is now so hard to do. This completely kills the true quick complexity of higher thought, and instead installs this slow, dead non-response until you are led directly to it. Sports on TV is now so boring (to me, anyway), because anytime anything happens, they rush zooming-in on it so fast, so stupidly until the one fragment of the play enlarges and takes up the whole fucking screen--like, "Find it yet, asshole?"--that it is as if no one has a brain at all anymore, and we must all be led by the nose to everything that will be presented to us by "the decider." Equally, all these close-ups that remove the sense of place or a larger, outside world control the parameters of what you will see, think, and believe exists."

So what you're saying is, you have a Point Of View. "Also, when you have been so co-opted in your own mind this way, and you lose your centered sense of self, and thinking from your own perspective...." That's SOOOOooooooooo Old Fashioned. :sarcasm:

"Visuals have replaced research itself on "documentaries" on TV, so that there is no longer a book-like structure of explaining a story, so you will at the end feel that you now understand something; now there is post-production over-editing by computer, quick-cuts and flipping the camera around (to show us all how "exciting" something is), and stupid rock or etc. music...

"We are now witnessing the fruits of the corporate takeover--to their own selfish ends--of what once were the public airwaves for our society's good. From Rupert Murdoch trying to make us slaves, to the bastard Gates breaking laws, cheating all the taxes away (for the peons to pay), fighting to deregulate everything, violating anti-trust laws all over the world--then being called a "saint" by the same corporate media for giving "charity" to "deserving" peons, when really we should have been taking it out of these rich capitalists as heavy taxes, where we will tell them what the money will be used for--all of them are equally guilty.....

"As soon as the corporations took over the entire public sphere, turning it all to propaganda to keep us all ignorant and under control, where the only interest of all "demographics" is to buy things, then the die was cast--except like, you'll have to ask somebody else for information on that.

We went from "if you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.........." to:

"All this "I don't know," "Ask somebody else," "Everything is so boring," "I can't concentrate," "I hate politics," "I haven't got time to help you, and why don't you do it yourself," "Gimme gimme gimme," "Me, Me, Me," (both selfishly/with greed, and also endless self-contempt and criticism), "Get out of my way, I'm late," "Nothing is wrong, if it works," and all the rest, knowing the brand names for everything, and understanding nothing, began as soon as the only thing broadcast or published anymore, was an endless and increasingly speeded-up sales pitch, moving product, sales, advertising, flashing, quick-cuts, display the product, eternally."

Forever and Ever, Amen. :evilfrown:

Meanwhile the adults are too stupefied to face down this insanity, the perception and power of youth has been bought out and sold out, so.......................................




:hug: HS

[Hidden Stillness]

131. A Further Point

I just wanted to add one further point that I was not really specific about earlier, that I think really contributes to the stupifying, mind-destroying effect nowadays, which is a non-stop propaganda campaign the like of which has never existed in this country before. Specifically, the commercial media never, never refers to the historical past anymore; there is not even a basic sense of time or place. "Historical" dramas, even, are just costume-dramas with standard soap opera themes. It is as if we the audience are not even human beings anymore, with lives, individual psychologies, etc., but are now merely "blank recepticles" for placing endless sales pitches and new product advertisements into. The rootless, baseless, totally uneducated non-perspective mind-set that this becomes--and the death of the ordinary, individual-but-socieatl mind-set that it killed--I think is mentally devastating to us all, the longer it goes on with no relief, both intellectually and emotionally. After all, notice how often violent rages are the result of people who cannot formulate a thought and express their grievances, and who then explode. The longer we are just "blank recepticles" for corporate slogans etc., from their media and only their media, the more we as a society will have these horrible consequences, and no one left to stop the slide. This is a very important and intelligent thread; many good posts.

[FILAM23]

133. I also have doubts about,

many of the people who work at those big box stores.But I have
just as many about someone who needs to ask a clerk about how
to install a window AC

[omega minimo]

134. The question was how it installs-- i.e. hardware, etc. to make sure it fit

:puke:

[omega minimo]

135. rudderless

"It is as if we the audience are not even human beings anymore, with lives, individual psychologies, etc., but are now merely "blank recepticles" for placing endless sales pitches and new product advertisements into. The rootless, baseless, totally uneducated non-perspective mind-set that this becomes--and the death of the ordinary, individual-but-socieatl mind-set that it killed--I think is mentally devastating to us all, the longer it goes on with no relief, both intellectually and emotionally."

no context.


"After all, notice how often violent rages are the result of people who cannot formulate a thought and express their grievances, and who then explode. The longer we are just "blank recepticles" for corporate slogans etc., from their media and only their media, the more we as a society will have these horrible consequences, and no one left to stop the slide. This is a very important and intelligent thread; many good posts."

I have worked with one of these corporate clones who had terrible temper tantrums AT WORK. Frightening. Not a pretty sight. Flailing around for someone to blame.

Saw a picture in Adbusters of a young, blank-staring trendy woman. It was HER! She's a "type." With a scary flip-side.

[napi21]

139. I have to commend the customer service at Costco!

They just opened a store close enough to me for me to join. I've only been there 5 times, but EVERY TIME, I have been stunned by the knowledge, ambition, and capabilities of the employees there! Even people who are only doing the sampling will help you with a question you have.

The peoople working the checkouts moved so fast, friendly, and efficiently, I commented to my husband about it!

The ONLY reason I can think of for this major difference between Costco and almost every other retailer is that Costco believes in paying their employees a decent wage, and treating them fairly, so they can be very selective when they hire anyone. The other stores oly check to see if you are breathing, and not taking drugs!

[high density]

143. Maybe you should have bought an air conditioner in May or June?

Yes, everything is more difficult now. However, when I bought my air conditioner it was pretty much a self service affair. All that Lowe's had to do for the sale was scan a barcode at checkout and then accept my credit card, both of which they did quite well. Any product info/research I did on my own, which has been the standard pretty much for all of my adult life.

[omega minimo]

148. Maybe you should pray for the 80+ dead in the record-breaking CA heatwave

"All that Lowe's had to do for the sale was scan a barcode at checkout and then accept my credit card, both of which they did quite well."

Congratulations on being such a well-programmed consumer. :thumbsdown: You do the Robot People proud.


"Yes, everything is more difficult now."

The actual question, which you may have been too busy feelng superior to clock, was how and why young people are trained to make every step of the way MORE difficult and every sentence in a conversation some sort of insane, passive/aggressive contest.

How do people (customers) deal with it (aside from being smugly acceptant as you are) and what is it like for the people (workers) who are acting like robots?

[omega minimo]

149. edit: 98+ dead in CA record breaking historic heat wave

[omega minimo]

151. edit: 104+ dead in CA historic heatwave

[omega minimo]

152. 144+ dead in California heat wave