Apathy, or not knowing what to do?

[Oak2004]

I am questioning the notion that Americans are too apathetic to do anything about the national and global disaster being manufactured in Washington.

I find no shortage of people who are furious at the regime in Washington, from the VNA personal care attendants who come to my Vermont home to my conservative relatives in the Chicago suburbs to my best friend in Colorado to my executive cousin in Marin county. And I mean furious -- they know he's destroying this country, and they want him gone.

What I find, when talking to them, is that they don't know what they can do to get rid of the Republican train wreck. They voted against it in 2004, and that didn't work. They see the administration proudly announce that they don't care about the polls -- the opinion of the people -- and ignore the opinions of the experts, so they don't see how letter writing, or demonstrating, or any of the other tools that depend upon someone actually listening for their effectiveness, will make any difference. They look around and they see no leadership, anywhere. They are at a loss.

Is this true? Are Americans angry, but feeling helpless? If so, is this sense of helplessness misplaced (i.e., do you think the tools they are so pessimistic about will work if they'd use them?), and how can we combat this defeatism? If they are feeling helpless and they are right, what tactics are available to ordinary Americans that might just work?

I think the traditional tactics are not entirely useless. I also think that it's necessary to look hard at where the regime gets it's power and how it exercises it, and find new ways for John and Jane Q. Public to help reclaim our nation. As for leadership, I'm wondering if what is missing is not leadership -- people at the top trying to direct everyone else. I see plenty of would-be leaders (though not many sitting in Washington with a "D" after their name). I'm wondering if what is actuially needed is a big-tent movement for democracy, analogous more to the '60's "counterculture" than to an organization, and functioning as much as a community as an entity with electoral political aims. How to bring such a movement together is, of course, another question.

[Deja Q]

1. Apathy. They know what to do. They just don't want to give up doing it.

[rucky]

5. Disagree. It's helplessness, defeatism and cynicism...

But if you know what to do, spread the word. We've been doing all we can and haven't even cracked the shell. I don't think petitions, marches, writing reps, LTTE's - or even voting - help much. I keep doing it, but say "why bother?" when I press that send button.

Most people say it before they even try it. Everybody complains about their representation, though - Dems and Republicans alike.

I think we need to focus on improving our immediate communities first with things we know we can do and progress we can see and measure. Then we'll have the strength (and confidence) to take on the entrenched power. We need to taste success again with some small victories.

[Zhade]

53. You make a good point here.

If we start making changes locally, we'll be much more vigilant and pissed off at threats to our well-being due to fascist inreach, and we'll fight back, because it'll be "all up in our grill", as the young ones say (kidding, I'm only 31).

This is really salient, thanks for pointing this out.

[G2099]

19. There is nothing we can do . . . that will make a difference

The "Open Conspiracy" is complete, the noose is around our neck, the American people are finished and the American people, deep down inside, know it.

That's why it was called a "open conspiracy" because the people would not be able to do anything about it even though it was "right in your face" and it is. Those of us in this forum who are "awake and aware" see what is going on but can do nothing that will really make a difference or change.

[blues90]

29. I think it has to do with a feeling of helplessness

If you consider it has been 6 years since the first assult to the mind with stolen elections which was sort of mindblowing to say the least and then getting hit again in 2004 , both we know damn well we could have and should have done somthing to put all effort as the public to fight this but we did not , this I feel was our first mistake and second mistake . During this time much has been taken away from the working class voter where they face a battle just to keep their job and maintain a living and hold on to their home , this does sort of bring the battle into the home and take alot of the focus off the big picture as sad as this may seem it is true never the less .

So through these 6 years add up all the drastic changes and horrors and try to adjust to this and you end up feeling drained and beaten .

I feel there are several reasons people are not out protesting , some are in what i mentioned above and then there is the fact that protests don't get covered so they are reduced to the area they are done so it seems futile especially when so far all the protests in these 6 years have rendered no results .

The longer we sit here and take this abuse the more difficult if not impossible it will be to change a thing .

In order for any advancement to begin there must be a form of leadership which we don't have , we have been given ideas and plans and personal thoughts and professional advice either on web sites or on AAR link TV and NPR and the like . If we found a way to project this to reach a larger percentage of the public this through the last 6 years would have gathered a much larger voice and through this period you need to maintain this voice and never allow it to shrink or slow down , you can't affort to loose one voice .

Now , how do we do this and who will step forward to become the leader . It is difficult enough to understand what is happening and to keep informed and learn the history . I wish it were so simple so we could simply react . As US citizens especially in 2006 we are not trained to revote , we have no experience in fighting a war against out government . I don't see how it can be a peaceful protest anylonger not when we are so easily ignored .
What are people to do , hit the streets and head to washington and leave all else behind , will it be one member of the family while the rest stay behind to keep the home base alive , it has to be large enough for everyone in every town and city to look out their window and see and feel the revolt or it will do nothing .

I have said before . it seems as if it will take most of us to have lost everything with nothing left to loose before we become a force unless we are all willing to risk loosing it in order to save it . I fear soon we will be forced to make this decision .

[Zhade]

54. Yes.

We should start becoming the leadership - why not us? We know what the rest of the world knows, we're informed, we care and love our country and people, there's no reason not to start and keep standing up.

Protests - we either need to go big, aiming to increase attendance by x amount each time to build a community over time, and start a regular schedule, or quit and funnel the resources elsewhere. We simply don't have the numbers and the presence yet. As pissed as people of all political stripes are, this can be changed.

Just my thoughts, fwiw.

[porphyrian]

42. Tangent: Tom Baker was my favorite Doctor.

The current one whose name escapes me isn't bad, it's just that I grew up with Baker.

We now return you to the important discussion about why people seem to be doing nothing.

[ClassWarrior]

2. Bravo! K&R

:kick:

NGU.

[lonestarnot]

3. Critical mass needs direction for sure.

[Deja Q]

4. Or a good sale at Kohls.

I hear more about sales than I do angry people.

Maybe when more people lose their jobs and realize they're in the same boat as those they've called "lazy" and "stupid" all these years...

:shrug:

[Bobbieo]

6. Wem as Democrats, are powerless to do anything about the Bushites

as long as the Republicans control the WH and both Houses of Congress!

[Bobbieo]

10. We have to use the "grass roots" approach

and go one step at a time. I'm doing my damndest on my blog to get out the Native American vote for this election. So I may get a hundred viewers in a day but it is better than nothing - right!

How does on edit these post after they are printed out?

[lonestarnot]

12. oops. Didn't see this until it was too late. and with the edit key.

[lonestarnot]

11. You are defeated before you start there bobbyeo.

[Bobbieo]

15. You are the defeated one lonestar!!!!

Your attitide is bringing the party down!!!!

[lonestarnot]

23. bwwwwwwwwaa

:rofl:

[porphyrian]

50. So, Lonestarnot, now you see that evil will always triumph...

...because good is dumb.

[hootinholler]

7. I meet angry people daily...

They're not as angry as I though. I vote on the side of hopeless.

We need something that each angry person can do that will be attention getting.

-Hoot

[lonestarnot]

13. Hey hoot. What happens with the

email addresses on your petition?

[hootinholler]

16. They will be used to communicate back to the signers about progress

Or other news, like protest organization, etc.

The petition site's privacy policy claims they are not harvested. I will not harvest them for any other purpose.

I'm trying to get the attention of elected officials, and need a lever before the mid-terms. If we the net-roots can make this an issue, it will be powerful going into November.

Ask your candidates if they are pro-War Crimes!

-Hoot

[lonestarnot]

22. cool signing.

[lonestarnot]

27. guess I already signed.

[lostnfound]

35. I totally agree on all counts.

I've often thought that protests would be so much more productive if they were PRODUCTIVE in the sense of producing something, using all those people to build something or create, so that there would be a feeling of leaving something behind that was worthwhile.

[Spazito]

33. More people are logged onto the live stream of Big Brother than

are logged on to news sites, have their televisions on to news coverage, live streams of what is happening in Lebanon, I would bet on it. Kind of says it all, imo.

More people watch American Idol, Canadian Idol, etc, than read a newspaper or watch the news, I have NO doubt.

[iamahaingttta]

8. Don't know what to do? It's very simple...

Stop using your fucking credit cards! Stop paying interest. That's how wealth is created and it goes right to the top! Stop filling out federal tax returns, and STOP BURNING FOSSIL FUELS!!! Stop giving profits to corporations that treat you like shit and get off the military/industrial/media/entertainment boat.

You're not gonna do those things though, you're gonna keep on whining. And the train wreck is just gonna keep getting nastier...

[otohara]

21. Yep....

When I hear that 40 million American's hit the road for the 4th of July weekend, I want to scream. This country is in complete denial about the oil situation, credit card debt, and a million other issues facing this country. Many could be fixed by changing personal habits, giving up a few luxuries, driving less, eating better, using earth friendly products, recycle.

Until that last drop of oil is sucked out of planet earth, I don't see any changes, especially from republican's who think the world is their trash can.

[rubberducky]

9. I think we need a massive demonstration

We haven`t seen that since the 60`s. March long enough and loud enough until they can`t ignore you anymore. How odd that it seems like it will take the "flower ,power" generation to lead. Until the boomers march,I think we will lose every right we ever had.:hippie:

[ClassWarrior]

14. I think we need to get involved, structurally and long-term.

We need to each pledge two hours a week or more to creating change.

NGU.

[Bluerthanblue]

17. listening to the radio there was an interview on the street...

asking people if they felt like we were headed for WWIII- one woman said something to the effect that when she listens to the news, or radio, or reads the paper she does- so she avoids all of those things, because she is sure that we are headed there- and she doesn't want to think about it-

Denial is still possible for some people- but the day will come, when denial isn't an option- and that day may be too late.....

Society has made avoidance of discomfort and reality too easy. Watch a movie, get plastered, do the 'Tara' (I'll think about it tomorrow) bit- We can run, we can hide, but eventually the world is going to catch up with each one of us- and buying the line fed from the bushco pr machine will cease to camouflage the ugly reality.

[lonestarnot]

25. Damn! Couldn't have said this better myself. Scarey ass reality isn't it

[Bluerthanblue]

49. sure is- but I rather be awake and scared, than pretending sleep-

thanks-
peace,
blu

(course that reminds me of the bumper sticker that says: STRESS- when you wake up screaming and realize you weren't asleep to begin with :D )

[LiviaOlivia]

18. I'm Not Ready To Make Nice

I'm Not Ready To Make Nice
by digby
07-21-2006
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_digbysblog_archive.html#115354947834833909

~snip~

Apparently these comfy Democratic insiders don't mind the Republicans treating them like neutered farm animals --- but I do. I take it personally when a propaganda industry makes millions spreading lies that liberals are terrorists or traitors. Yet the political establishment, including the media, doesn't seem to think I should care about such things --- even as I've seen my party and my country degraded and humiliated for years by this virulent strain of rightwing politics.

I was driving the other day and the announcer of the pop station I was listening to said that their most requested song was "I'm Not Ready To Make Nice" by the Dixie Chicks. I realized I had never closely listened to it before. As I drove alongside the Pacific Ocean with the windows open and the stereo blasting I think I finally understood -- or admitted to myself -- that much of this netroots and grassroots energy and emotional committment is coming from the simple fact that we've just reached the rope of our ends with these malignant Republican bullies and the people who would protect their privilege rather than stand up.

~snip~

Did they(GOP)think we were going to take their shit forever?

Don't lose your nerve Democrats. I know you hate to be "unseemly" and loathe the idea that anyone will think you are "unreasonable." I understand that having Rush say you are in thrall to the lunatic left fringe brings on a 60's flashback that leaves you dripping in a cold sweat. But get a grip on your subconscious fear of being a feeling and breathing human being and recognize that this is a good and necessary thing for your country. (You might even come to "kinda like it" like those Dixie Chicks have.) You don't have to be neutered farm animals anymore. If you're ready to take it to them we're here to get your backs.

~snip~

[ClassWarrior]

20. What does that have to do with the OP?

NGU.

[Bobbieo]

24. Class Warrior - What does OP and GNU mean?

The use of initials happens alot, here and many of us have no idea of what you are referring to.

[ClassWarrior]

26. Mea culpa! (Which means "sorry!") OP means "original post" or...

..."original poster."

And NGU = "Never Give Up," my personal slogan since 11/03/04.

NGU.

[lonestarnot]

28. actually it means guilty mind.

but bobbyo won't mind.

[Bobbieo]

30. I'm an NGU and will question when I see something I don't understand.

[ClassWarrior]

31. As well you should!

:hi:

NGU.

[lonestarnot]

37. Welcome to DU

Bobilouie! :hi: :hug:

[OnionPatch]

32. I think it may be a little of both

but there is definitely the lack of knowing what to do and feeling helpless. I witnessed this last week while I was on vacation in the "heartland" visiting family. Some of them have not voted for many years because they are frustrated and have been cynical and apathetic! But they have recently become almost as furious as we are with things and I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they agree with us on many, even most topics. They want change, but it's just that they don't trust the Dems to do the things that need to be done either! They see the Democrats as being as corrupt as the GOP! And sadly, they have bought many of the much repeated epitaths about Dems like "tax and spend", "nanny states", "gun-grabbers" etc. I tried to point out that much of this is just right-wing propaganda, and luckily, they are not totally oblivious to that. They seem to be to be more willing to understand that and at least hear our ideas, anyway.

I think at least the good ideas are coming from our side even if the elected officials don't seem to be willing to stand behind them. I truly believe that if some of our guys would come out and stand up for true progressive values, especially economic ones, instead of being GOP lite, they would get the support of so many more centrist and Independent types. My relatives seem especially mad about corporate corruption, the loss of so many American jobs and environmental issues, especially health-related ones. They are equally frightened of the Christian right gaining so much power. Oh and I might add, they seem to be taking another look, a serious look, at Al Gore! :bounce:

In the words of Neil Young: America needs a leader.

[Senator]

34. The RoadMap to Impeachment: "Violence" is The Answer

We all know what needs to happen, but we seem at a loss for "how to make in so."

Impeachment is the "watershed." It will "nationalize" the elections. It will override the "weapons of mass distraction" like Lebanon, N. Korea, terror-mongering, etc...

Yes, it is a panacea. Impeach over Iraq. Impeach over spying. Impeach over Plame. Impeach over the environment. Impeach over looting the treasury. Your reason need not be THE reason on the articles.

But "Violence" really is the answer.

It is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

---
www.january6th.org

[lonestarnot]

39. But then there is the preexisting problem of those pesky machines and

the stolen vote. Stand by! Wait for some word on those. It's another XXXXXXX top secret mission!

[Nay]

36. I see the major problem as being the inability of the Dem leadership

to actually lead. This leads a whole lot of people, including me, to think that if the independently wealthy Dem senators and congresspeople won't stand up to a bunch of bully republicans, how are we the people going to have any effect on them? They would just laugh at us, tell the media not to cover the mass marches, etc., all of which has happened. During the Vietnam War protests, the media covered the war AND the bodybags AND the demonstrations AND those opposed to the war AND the pronouncements from the White House AND experts on both sides. People got a fairly good idea of what was going on and felt like their participation on one side or another would have an impact. In other words, they felt connected to the process through their representatives, through the media, through their neighbors. No one feels like this anymore. In fact, everyone thinks that if they really took to the streets and started busting windows, the Dems would be throwing them in jail as fast as the pubs would, because they don't even see a minimal level of meaningful opposition to the pubs.

The last march on Washington DC was MASSIVE -- I do not doubt there were at least 600,000 people there. I was there with DH and DS, and we saw with our own eyes how massive it was. But the media did not report it.

If Dem leaders feel they can't get the message out because of the media, they need to HURRY UP and buy their own station with funds armtwisted out of wealthy Dems! Let's put it on the line, folks! You pony up the effin' money and get your message out! Mail fiery newsletters to every address in the country! The Bible assholes were able to send a "good news" bible to every household in the country -- why can't you send a newsletter or buy nationwide ads??

Another comparison to Vietnam -- as much as I despised Nixon, he was nothing like these rapists we have now. When will the Dem leadership get through their heads that THIS IS WAR? And I'm not talking about Iraq! Impeachment proceedings need to begin straightaway, some bastards need to be led away in chains, and what do Dem leaders do? Nothing. I don't CARE if you think you don't have the votes to get rid of the bastards; all Dem reps should vote for impeachment, bar none. Dem leaders should hold all their feet to the fire. THAT'S how you support the "people."

There are calls for "the people" to somehow "take their govt back." Oh yeah? And how the fuck are we supposed to do that? Occupy a building until we are shot and teargassed out, only to hear our Dem leaders call our actions "regrettable"? Sit in jail while those selfsame Dem leaders attend fundraising banquets and get kissed on the cheeks by their pub masters?

NO pronouncement from ANY Dem should be conciliatory toward any Pub. Pubs should be treated like the trash they are, and pushed to the curb at every opportunity. No more Mr. Nice Guy, and it should start at the top.

[lonestarnot]

40. I nominate you poster of the day! Numero uno! Big Kahuna!

kick 'em to the curb!

[Nay]

43. Thanks. The whining about how the "people" need to rise up

and start decapitating Republicans is just a bunch of shit, IMHO. If we rise up, ALL the damn leaders who got us to this place are going to the guillotine, and dem leaders need to remember that. Do they think they are going to get a pass because they have a "D" behind their names? And don't get me started on the gun nuts to whom insurrection is a possibility -- any real threat, and those U. S. Army tanks, humvees, and napalm-filled airplanes can burn through YOUR neighborhood as easily as they burned through Fallujah, and you and your stupid Glock ain't gonna stop 'em.

Where the run of the mill Americans DO have a responsibility is in the area of informing themselves (easily done through reading at your local public library or on the internet) AND tearing themselves away from the godawful boob tube! WTF is it with this shit? People turn it on, and they are mentally gone for as many hours as their fat asses can marinate on the couch! It's nothing but brainwashing, and it needs to be stopped somehow. That's a worse problem than the govt, to me.

[lonestarnot]

45. Yes.

Senseless waste of electricity.

[Odin2005]

38. Joe Sixpack has been disillusioned with politics since the 70's.

Our election turnout is so low because the average person belives that his/her vote doesn't count and there is nothing that can be done about it. People are becoming increasingly fatalistic, thinking they cannot affect the Powers that Be.

[lonestarnot]

41. And it looks like in the last two they were absolutely correct. May as

well have stayed home. But this one is going to be different! Soooprize Soooprize! Goober!

[Nay]

44. Well, they're right. They can't affect the powers that be except by

extraordinary means, and by implementing those means in extraordinary numbers. The only time that will happen is when masses of people are involuntarily thrown into intolerable situations -- millions out of work, millions thrown out of houses, millions hungry. Millions of middle-class people, that is. You see, no one thinks it will happen to THEM. It will be someone else. Until we are all in the shit together, few eyes will have the scales fall from them. And the Dem leaders aren't helping by treating all this shit as "business-as-usual with my colleagues across the aisle."

[lonestarnot]

46. More yes!

The boat is springing leaks on all sides and only a few of us are bailing, as the rest stand by in amusement, or turn their head to watch TV.

[bobbolink]

47. How 'bout BOTH?

We aren't all cut of the same cloth.

Many are apathetic, and closing their eyes and ears to anything they don't want to hear.

Many are furious, but don't know what to do. They saw that attempts at protest weren't effective, and some aren't into protests, anyway.

I'm really seeing that, while I used to think a strong middleclass was a very good thing, now I see that it also makes it possible for people to be so complacent that it's hard to get them motivated. Sadly, I think this country was better off when most were poor. They cared more.

[European Socialist]

48. What has been lacking for years is a Democratic road show,....

going town to town, with dozens of Dems screaming bloody murder. Considering how horrendous this Repuke government has been--is that asking too much?

[cynatnite]

51. Powerless

I think a lot of people feel powerless when they look at the government, the wealthy and the big corporations.

Were it not for that, I think we'd have a radically different government and country.

[Zhade]

52. *I* don't know what to do. I don't know what we CAN do!

Congress doesn't listen. Administration won't listen. Fellow citizens will, I'm starting to find, but they echo back to me: what can we do?

And I can't answer them, because I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HELP.

Letters and phone calls to those who won't listen and protests against those who won't watch...pointless, IMHO (sadly).

My guess, general strike, but union power is so weak here, who knows?

I'M paralyzed, and I know what's going on! How would Joe and Jane CBS Nightly News know what to do?

(I'm not proud of this. But it's true.)

EDIT: K/R for asking such a critical question!

(And what an eerie coincidence - I was listening to an OC remix called "When All Hope Has Faded" when I opened this thread by chance.)

[struggle4progress]

55. It's always possible to do something.

There's an ole man called the Mississippi:
that's the ole man I don't like to be.

What does he care if the world's got troubles?
What does he care if the land ain't free?

Ole man River, that ole man River:
He must know sumthin but don't say nuthin.
He jest keeps rollin, he keeps on rollin along.

He don't plant taters, he don't plant cotton.
And them what plants em is soon forgotten.
But ole man River he jest keeps rollin along.

You and me, we sweat and strain, body all achin and racked with pain.
Tote that barge and lift that bale.
You show a little grit and you land in jail.

But I keep laughin instead of cryin: I must keep fightin until I'm dyin.
And ole man River, he just keeps rollin along.

- Paul Robeson