It's not about WHETHER they can wiretap.

[KyuzoGator]

Please, please, please...in your conversations, do NOT let people squawk the BushCo talking points. They are framing the debate as if we want the authorities to have NO wiretapping capabilities whatsoever.

It's not about whether they can do it...it's about them doing it without a warrant. And there was ZERO excuse, because in matters of national security immediate unwarranted surveillance is allowed AS LONG AS THE WARRANT IS FILED WITHIN 72 HOURS.

Bush already had all the tools he needed to LEGALLY catch terrorists. The fact that he went beyond and BROKE THE LAW AND THE CONSTITUTION is the issue.

Don't let them frame this debate into something it's not. It's not about the surveillance, it's about doing it without any judicial approval.

[DS1]

1. Yup

:hi:

[FogerRox]

2. CLintons Executive order

allowed for the AG to certify probable cause and then appluy for a court order, and then have it sealed, for up to one year.

In a decalred war BUSH would have 15 days, not 72 hrs, to wiretap, as he approached congress to ammend FISA before the 15 days expired.

He never did that either. He just spyed w/o warrants.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. They like to play near the edges - it's too easy to do it properly

That's the problem.

Their ARROGANCE!

[C_U_L8R]

4. Some republican windbag

was going off on TV yesterday about "what good is a warrant WHEN YOU'RE DEAD"
and proceeded to hyperventilate how "paperwork" would cost thousands of lives.

Typical Reichwing BS and Fearmongering. This fucker was lying his ass off....
just so Georgie and his cronies can keep breaking the law.... unnecessarily.

Unnecessary that is .. if they are actually hunting true suspects (and not
spying on political adversaries .. on both sides of the aisle).

I suspect Bush is hiding something.. something very big and very illegal.

[KyuzoGator]

5. The only response to that is, "you CAN wiretap without a warrant"

They are making it seem as though in emergency matters of national security you have to fill out 83 forms in triplicate before you're allowed to act. That is simply not true. Just file for the warrant within 72 hours.

They are lying and covering. We can't let this get swept.

[C_U_L8R]

6. Unfortunately but not surprisingly....

the so called-journalist in charge
(i forget which show... wolfie, russert, tweetie)
was not paying much attention and did not appear
to have the brains, wit or energy to call this liar out.

[KyuzoGator]

7. Kick nt

[Justice Is Comin]

8. It's about

We don't know who the hell he's listening to. If he never has to say, he could be listening to every democrat in the party.

[C_U_L8R]

9. and every republican too

You can be certain that Bush is spying on republican leadership...
that's how he maintains control and feeds the rovian (blackmail) machine.
Just like Himmler.

Freeps??? .... oh yeah you can bet they're wiretapped too

[CornField]

10. Outside of the legal argument, there's the issue of efficiency

Putting aside for a moment the legality of these wiretaps, have they worked to make America and the rest of the world a safer place?

Given the number of dead abroad due to terror and counter-terror attacks, we can come to the only logical solution: They have not worked and the overall "War on Terror" policies by this administration have not worked. We are no more safe today than we were prior to September 11. Matter-of-fact, given the Iraqi insurgency and the increase numbers of Al Qaeda, there is a real case to be made that we are LESS SAFE than we were.

[Stephanie]

11. It's about them wiretapping without OVERSIGHT.

As it is we have to take their word for it that the people they are spying on are connected to Al Queda. What if they are just political enemies of the Bush administration? We will never know. THAT is why we have oversight built into the law and checks and balances built into the Consitution. So the president cannot ABUSE HIS AUTHORITY.

Talking Point:

When HILLARY is president, she will also have the ability to spy on whoever she likes with out reporting it to a judge. We will never know who she's spying on. Because Bush changed the rules to give her that power.

[KyuzoGator]

12. A little bit of how it's presented in the "mainstream":

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/umedia/20060124/cp.82715a0a56a3a9ab7be78b86ff264338

[Hosnon]

13. Actually...the 72 hours time frame may be off...if we are considered to

be in a war (de facto in the least), the window to gain a warrant after the fact is 15 DAYS.