My friend hit by illegal w/ no insurance.

[Buddyblazon]

I don't know how to feel about this.

My good friends wife (so good we bought a house directly across the street) was in an auto accident yesterday. The driver ran a stop sign and clipped the rear passenger side of their car.

The cops showed up, and lo and behold...the woman that struck my friend had no insurance and was an illegal alien. She had her child with her and she was frantic...especially when the cop asked her to get in the police car. It was only to fill out an accident report, but obviously the worst popped into her head.

My friend said she felt horrible. The woman told her she has been her for years.

I'm really torn about this. It's terribly irresponsible to drive without insurance (and terribly illegal). And this woman isn't here legally. But my friend said it was such a depressing and pathetic situation...she could feel only pity for the woman.

But now their insurance will have to cover it (and who knows how those bastards will recoup their loss).

Should she be pissed?



Edited for spelling error in "subject".

[woodsprite]

1. I think we all know how they'll recoup their losses - raise the price. nt

[Buddyblazon]

3. SOB's!

Not like they don't already make hand over fist.


Insurance industry = criminal racket

[bluestateguy]

2. This happened to me 4 years ago

My car was technically totaled, but that was more because of the cost of repairing it. I was rear-ended as I was pulling into my apartment complex. There were no injuries.

The woman who hit me spoke no English, had no insurance, and when the cops came, she presented a counterfeit Mexican driver's license. Living in Texas at the time, I think it's a safe bet that the cops would know what a legitimate Mexican license would look like. I think it highly likely that she was illegally in the country.

Was I angry? Yes, but more because of her careless and stupid driving, rather than her immigrant status. My insurance took good care of me, and never raised my premiums either.

[TornadoTN]

4. It's a sad situation all the way around

We deal with this a lot in Eastern Tennessee, as a lot of the businesses, agribusinesses and farms prefer to import their work than pay Americans a decent wage. Auto insurance rates here are skyrocketing because of this very problem and the police are at a loss as to how to approach the issue. I would be very upset if it happened to me but I also feel some compassion to the woman because she probably lives well below the poverty line and is just trying to get by.

I'm not sure where I fall on the immigration issue. I realize that illegal immigration hurts all Americans, but at the same time I realize that most of these people just want a shot at a better life for their children. I believe in the short term we need to penalize businesses that employ illegals and actively recruit their services. We need a comprehensive immigration policy, but as to how to best accomplish this for all parties involved is anyones guess.

[kurth]

5. Most illegal immigrants have no car insurance

or carry fake insurance certificates (these little slips of paper are ridiculously easy to type up on a computer, and most cops don't bother/can't verify if the information is legitimate at the scene of the accident).

[Warpy]

6. Uninsured motorist coverage is still pretty cheap

because those collisions happen rarely. I doubt her insurance rates will climb and I doubt the policy will be canceled because the accident was clearly out of her control. It depends on the carrier, though.

As for the illegal alien, you can bet he's struggling and there is just no way he can afford car insurance without seeing his kids go hungry.

Running the stop sign is unforgiveable, though. They're the same shape in Mexico, even though they say "ALTO" instead of stop.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

7. I feel her pain. I was hit by an uninsured motorist a few years back

My uninsured/underinsured coverage paid for whole thing and my insurance didn't go up since it wasn't my fault.

[IdaBriggs]

8. Yup. With privileges come responsibility.

I know that sounds sanctimonious, but its the truth. It is possible for a person here "illegally" to still get car insurance. If you want to drive, you obey the law, and if you don't, you get in trouble. If you get caught speeding, you get a ticket. If you disobey the street signs (no passing, etc.), you get in trouble. If you drive a car, it better have insurance, because otherwise your problem becomes someone else's problem AND THAT IS WRONG!

And I say this as someone who was an irresponsible teenager who drove WITHOUT insurance due to finances. Part of "growing up" was accepting responsibility for my own actions, which included paying my stupid bills in a timely fashion (which wasn't always easy or possible). Amazingly enough, I learned that if you don't pay the electric bill, you don't have electricity AND the gas company would cut off your heat. Eviction notices were also strong motivators for paying my rent on time! Most people learn these lessons sooner or later (and some quicker than others!), but feeling sorry for stupid people (like myself back then) doesn't change the consequences of one's behavior.

Driving without insurance is against the law for a reason. Perhaps that feeling of terror will be remembered, and help motivate someone to make better choices in the future. I know it worked for me. Young, dumb and stupid weren't good enough excuses for me to be breaking the law, and they aren't good enough for other people, either.

ON EDIT: Apparently I don't care about her being here illegally -- my issue is that she's driving without insurance! LOL!

[MrCoffee]

9. Of course she should be pissed...

The driver who caused the accident didn't have insurance. Now the cost of the accident will come out of the faultless driver's pocket. I'd be pissed.

Does this bad driver get some sort of break because she's illegal? She was driving illegally too, should we cut her some slack for it?

No pity for bad drivers. It's a privilege, not a right.

[Poll_Blind]

11. Agreed! n/t

PB

[Buddyblazon]

12. I agree...

but my friend sitting there watching this woman breakdown emotionally because she knows it could result in her life (though an illegal life) crashing down...was just too much for her.

She wasn't pissed anymore...at that point she just felt horrible for the woman.

[youthere]

15. You could not have said that more perfect.

[InkAddict]

10. "Enemy combatants w/ a WM(fender)D automobile"--mom and baby

Disappeared........for the security of our nation...

So, just how out of context can these new regulations go?

[Coventina]

13. My dad was hit (car was totaled) by an illegal immigrant running a red

Fortunately, everyone was okay.

My dad has comprehensive insurance, so his own insurance took care of it.


I was once rear-ended by a guy at a stop light. He couldn't speak a word of English. I was trying to ask him if he wanted to call the police (his car was damaged, but fortunately mine wasn't). Well, he understood "police" and panicked. He picked up the pieces of his car from the road and took off. I kind of suspect he may have been here illegally.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

14. This happened to me over 10 years ago.

my car was totalled.

since I only paid $1000 for the car, we made a deal. She paid me $500 over the next several months - it was supposed to be $100 per month, but it took longer, and I told her to skip December (she had little kids).

not an ideal settlement, but better than nothing.

[William Bloode]

16. Happens all the time here.

We have a ton of illegals, and many of them either have no insurance, no license or both. They like to set up road blocks just down the street from me. Every time they set one up i get from 2-10 hispanic surprise visitors whom i don't know. They'll pull in talk for a few minutes, and then leave in the opposite direction. I don't mind, it's actually been a benefit, and i get to work on my Spanish.

The problem is being "illegal" makes it hard to get license, and insurance. And of course many are going to say if ya ain't got it don't drive. It ain't that easy, as driving can mean the difference in you survival, especially around here and semi rural places and small towns like this one.

[MrCoffee]

18. Citizen or illegal immigrant, it doesn't matter

If you don't have insurance, you don't get to drive. If you don't know how to obey a stop sign, which are shape and color specific for those who can't read, you don't get to drive. If you choose to drive without doing those things, then you've made your own bed.

Would you feel much sympathy if the at-fault driver was wanted on a warrant for killing someone? No. So why do you make an exception for the illegal immigrant?

[treestar]

31. Are there no shades of illegal activity?

Equating the violent US citizen with a record of hard core violent crime with one whose worst offense is a violation of civil immigration regulations is overdoing the black and white line between legal and illegal. May as well equate the murderer with the person whose worst crime is speeding.

I know a cop who says there is no way for anyone to drive without violating the law. That makes you as bad as the murderer if you've ever driven, which is ridiculous.

[MrCoffee]

36. "shades of illegal activity"? No, there aren't.

Either you comply with the law or you break it. There aren't any points for trying extra hard.

[treestar]

55. Come on, some laws are more serious to break than others

You've broken the law yourself if you've ever had so much as a speeding ticket.

[MrCoffee]

56. Of course i've broken the law, and there was no shade of legality about it

it was illegal. just like driving without insurance, or running a stop sign and causing an accident.

sure, some laws are "more serious" in terms of the effect of the crime (Andy Fastow is far "more guilty" than i ever will be, on a moral level), but the fact remains that this woman broke at least two driving laws, and now that she's getting busted for an immigration law that she broke, doesn't make her any less culpable for any of it simply because they're minor driving laws.

I'm completely in favor of changing the immigration laws. But don't excuse this woman for driving without insurance and putting other people at risk because she didn't want to get caught.

ETA that there is no right to drive a car. It's a privilege, and one we take for granted WAY too often, IMO. I'm in favor of letting the state take your car away from you if you get a DUI.

[AndyA]

17. An illegal alien driving a car illegally without insurance. What a shock!

Illegal is illegal. If you have no respect for the law, chances are you don't have respect for the country, the people who live here, or anything else.

Illegal aliens started off on the wrong foot when they snuck into the country illegally. From that moment, why would anyone expect them to do what they're supposed to do? They obviously have no respect for America. Actions speak volumes.

[Syncronaut Seven]

19. You forgot your little sarcasm smiley.

That cut and dried to you huh? Must be nice.

[AndyA]

22. You want to make exceptions for illegal aliens?

Then you are willing to make exceptions for Bush and the GOP and all their illegal activities as well, right? You're willing to stand by and watch them continue to desecrate the Constitution as well, right? And allow them to remove our rights and liberties as well. Where do you draw the line?

[Syncronaut Seven]

24. What an extrordinary response

Just off your meds? or do you really think that way.

Fine reasoning there son.

[AndyA]

25. I kinda felt the same way about your response.

Obviously we disagree.

[truebrit71]

20. I'm sorry but that's just pure bullshit....

They're illegal aliens so they obviously have no respect for America? How does that logic even begin to make sense to you?

Obviously they have tremendous respect for America, it is a country that offers them the potential for a better life, otherwise they wouldn't be here...

Respect for the law? You must be joking...

[AndyA]

23. How are they respecting America?

They are here ILLEGALLY and they know it.

They are driving without insurance, which is REQUIRED BY LAW, and they know it.

How does that show respect? It doesn't. It shows disrespect for the land and its laws, and THAT'S BULLSHIT.

[truebrit71]

27. Find me a republican that respects the law...I

..If you're white you are here illegally....

They respect what America has to offer them by way of a better standard of life, is that so hard for you to understand?

The mandatory insurance law is fucking bullshit, and is a payback from politicians to their Corporate Insurance benefactors...

Yes they are here illegally, but your "respect" argument is complete bullshit....

[AndyA]

46. So anyone who wants a better standard of life is entitled to it even if it

breaks the law? That's bullshit.

So you condone robbing a bank because you need money?

Raping someone because you want to have sex?

Give me a break. If you have respect for the laws, you don't violate them. Same goes for the country.

[truebrit71]

49. Yeah, illegal immigration is just like rape and robbery..

...come back to me when you've figured out how to argue properly... :eyes:

[AndyA]

51. A law is a law.

America is a nation of laws.

Some violations are more severe than others, but anyone who enters the country illegally is breaking the law. Something tells me this is hitting a bit too close to home for you.

If you want to be an American citizen, you go through the lawful steps to be one, you don't sneak in just because you want to. Don't follow the example of George Bush and do whatever the hell you damn well like, just because it's good for you.

Enough said.

[truebrit71]

52. I'm NOT disputing the fact that they are breaking the law...but that does

...NOT equate to having no "respect" for the country.

Alot of these folks "sneak in" to escape poverty and corruption in their own homeland, not because they "want to"...Or do you think they leave their vast palatial estates to come here and work in the fields and kitchens of this country for shits and grins?

Hitting a bit too close for me, WTF are you talking about?

Something tells me that the issue here for you is immigrants, and has fuck all to do with "laws" or "respect"...

'Nuff said.


Edited to add "NOT" in subject line.

[Ignis]

63. A nation of laws? Since when?

I'm sure you only wrote this post AFTER you spent several hours writing all of your Representatives and Senators to demand that they comply immediately with the various treaties signed by the U.S. with various Native American nations (and subsequently and repeatedly broken).

After all, we can only expect visitors/immigrants to our country to respect our laws as much as we do, right?

Right?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. In most places, they can't get to their jobs if they don't drive

If you don't want people who shouldn't be driving (illegal immigrants, the physically or mentally incapacitated, those who really can't afford a car) to be driving, then you should work for better transportation in your area. (In Portland, illegal immigrants mostly take the bus.)

[treestar]

35. Do such laws really deserve all that much respect?

If we make stupid laws, we get disrespect.

Better stay in the US, too. There are countries out there that have ridiculous laws and you'd have to "respect" them while there.

This is the complacency of the American who thinks that America will just always be prosperous by some miracle, and that you will never need access to a foreign market to make a living. When it is possible, you just might.

When it comes to economic questions, the modern world is stupid to try to limit economic activity within each country. In the days when people lived by hunting and farming it was one thing, but in the 21st century, just stupid.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Well, let's see.

They respect America because they came here to make a better life for themselves. That's living the American dream. That's as respectful to America as any person can get.

Certainly more respectful to America that the assholes that didn't do shit except get born here and want to close off the borders.

How about citizens who drive without insurance? Do they hate America to? How about people who speed or jaywalk?

[AndyA]

47. You left something out of your first sentence.

They respect America because they came here ILLEGALLY to make a better life for themselves.

So it's OK to break the law because you want a better life for yourself? Is that what America is about today? It's easy to see why everything is turning to shit - it's too many people witht that attitude. :eyes:

[truebrit71]

53. Careful, your sheet might get dirty...

..I thought I knew what bugged you about this, and you have just confirmed it...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. Hey, they didn't do anything...

your ancestors didn't do.

[treestar]

32. I don't think they have that kind of consciousness

And they'd be legal is some way if we have logical or common sense immigration laws.

Maybe they don't respect our laws because our laws are so stupidly restrictive. They aren't even based on our own interests.

It is not possible for these people to be legal under the laws we have. We try to starve them out by making it illegal for them to work, drive, etc., but the issue of self preservation gets in the way. And we don't have to make them citizens to allow them to legally register in some way.

Our obsession with protecting the job market has led us to absurdities and we end up cutting down on the number of jobs we have and allowing employers to exploit people for the slim chance that we wanted or needed that particular job.

[slaveplanet]

38. yes

Maybe they don't respect our laws because our laws are so stupidly restrictive. They aren't even based on our own interests.

I agree, I've always felt that stop signs were stupidly restrictive,
especially when there are children in front of or inside my car.
:sarcasm:

[treestar]

58. That analogy does not work

Stop signs are to stop the immediate possibility of a collision.

Violating immigration or tax or environmental laws may cause problems, but not as serious as that.

If your kids get killed by someone who runs a stop sign, that's an equal problem to the possibly imaginary lack of a job someday, which could be due to several causes, not just some alien having the job, even if illegal?

If a US citizen runs a stop sign and kills your kids, that's somehow more OK than an illegal alien who DOES stop at the sign, but is just in the US illegally? So you'd rather your kids were killed by an inattentive US citizen driver than that there be any illegal aliens around, even if you could show a connection between your kids' unemployment and the presence of some illegal alien?

[slaveplanet]

62. Uhm the OP

is about whether or not the poster's friend should be angry or not with an individual who has such utter disdain for our society and the safety of others that they disregard laws that the overwhelming majority of the electorate feel are proper and necessary for safe functioning of a modern nation. It's not that big a jump , that one who disregards the stop sign at my street corner chooses to disregard them elsewhere in life whether they're posted clearly or not.

That one should stop when the majority of a society has deemed so is something I want and desire. Mostly, so that I may live another day, to pursue a livelihood, and be in good health to fight for things that need to foughten for.

Obviously, you do not feel the same, and think this is a stupid pretext. I'm sorry but I'm glad the majority in my vicinity feel as I do and that those with your sentiments are in the extreme minority.

So, Peace be to all that want move past the stop signs lawfully.

[High Plains]

40. They don't have insurance because they don't have drivers'

licenses because our politicians keep passing laws to ban them from being able to get them. This is just stupid. It's a policy designed to ensure that these people will drive without insurance.

[MrCoffee]

41. If you don't have a driver's license, you shouldn't drive. n/t

[ComerPerro]

54. You are right.. The law is the law. And you have to obey the law

no matter what.

If its a law, it must be right. No questioning it. Ever.

:sarcasm:

[kaiden]

21. Do you, by any chance, live in Northwest Denver?

This scene happens alot in that neighborhood. Usually, the uninsured just flee, though.

[Horse with no Name]

26. I've had more than one car totalled

by Americans without any insurance.
What's the difference?

[Xenotime]

28. Maybe there should be a national car insurance..

So when people come here to work and live, they are insured. Sure would make life easier.

[sandnsea]

59. One car, one policy

Pay for your own insurance to cover your own car. Everybody with loans or expensive cars have full comprehensive coverage anyway. Why punish some poor schmuck who can barely afford gas with higher premiums. Rich people don't make driving mistakes??

[treestar]

29. Accident are caused by inattention

Regardless of insured, legally present, even having a driver's license.

Am American citizen not paying attention could injure an illegal uninsured unlicensed alien.

Again proving how stupid our immigration laws are. If we registered those who were here, they could get insurance and a license.

Our policy of trying to "starve" people out of coming into the US has not worked for decades and continues not to work, because it depends entirely on law enforcement. Whoever is trying to survive on a basic level disregards the niceties of these rules. When you are middle class, you can obey them, when you're on the edge, you can't, so you don't.

[Orangepeel]

30. I'd be pissed to be hit by an uninsured driver, no matter the citizenship

I was hit by a hit-and-run driver and I was pissed. Because it was a hit and run I have no idea whether or not the person was a citizen, green card holder, illegal alien or what. Didn't matter. I still had to pay (through my insurance) for an accident that wasn't my fault.

I don't see why it matters in your friend's case. A woman caused an accident she can't take responsibility for. Why shouldn't your friend be pissed?

[taquinas101]

45. Agree with orangepeel68

Most states require insuranec as a condition to drive, and doing so without insurance is illegal and irresponsible.

[patcox2]

34. Nothing to cry about, his insurance company has this figured.

Its not rare.

And if you are in a no-fault state, your insurance company pays your medical bills anyway.

Here is a big, major, and important fact everyone should know about UM/UIM (uninsured motorist/under-insured motorist) coverage:

The amount you can recover from your insurance company if you are harmed by someone with little or no insurance is limited to your liability policy limit.

In many states the liability policy limit may be as low as $15,000, which is diddly squat. The difference between being hit by someone with $15,000 in liability coverage and by someone with none is pretty much meaningless.

The second thing everyone should know is that its not exensive to raise your policy limit. The first few dollars of coverage are the expensive ones. My policy limit is $500,000, and it only costs $200 more a year than $15,000.

[slaveplanet]

37. Is there a copy of the citation?

especially when the cop asked her to get in the police car. It was only to fill out an accident report, but obviously the worst popped into her head.

Surely there would be a citation issued if a corporate person/citizen ran a stop sign?
So surely then, there must be a citation issued to the paperless alien as well?

Surely this would be a matter of public record, I'd like to see this citation, but why do I get the feeling none was issued.

Care to give a few more details about where and when this happened?

[Samurai_Writer]

39. That has happened to me twice

I was rear-ended both times -- 16 years ago by a Mexican national visiting this country who had no insurance. Car was totalled and I suffered permanent back injuries. Second time was last year. Don't know if the guy was illegal or not, but he was hispanic and didn't have insurance. Car again totalled and now my left ankle is screwed up, probably for life. Credit ruined both times because I could not afford to pay the medical bills for treatment I had to have, plus having to pay the two car loans on cars that were totalled (the insurance only covered what the car was 'worth', not the amount left on the loan).

Needless to say, I didn't feel sorry for the guys who hit me...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. I wouldn't be mad at the person.

The situation, sure, but not the person.

More likely than not, the immigrant would have loved to be driving legally and with insurance. But you can't afford car insurance when you're making 20 bucks a day for sixteen hours of work.

If this were some citizen making minimum wage or more but he didn't want to get insurance because he was a cheap bastard, sure, then I'd be pissed at the person.

[Bridget Burke]

44. Are undocumented workers allowed to get drivers' licenses in your state?

In Texas, you need ID & proof of a Social Security #. Other requirements here: www.dmv.org/tx-texas/apply-license.php

And, you need Proof of Insurance, as well.

Those who want "illegals" to remain cheap sources of labor are anxious that they stay out of The System. The workers are much more manageable if they're constantly afraid of deportation. No matter how long they've been here. No matter how much the insurance companies are able to jack up their rates for the rest of us.

[Iris]

48. "should she be pissed"

"she could feel only pity for the woman"

Because your friend has compassion, which is a lot more than a lot of the folks here who will respond to this post have.

Sure, she might be angry, too, but what's the point in wallowing in that. Crap happens in life. You get mad. You move on.

[mainegreen]

50. People who drive without insurance deserve a good kick in the arse.

That includes you New Hampshire!

[jeffrey_X]

60. citizens, illegals or whomever...yes you are correct. Not sure why it...

matters (that the person was illegal) in this particular case.

[sandnsea]

57. My car, my insurance

I personally think the cost of insurance is higher than it would be because we insure OTHER PEOPLE'S cars. If we just insured OUR OWN vehicles (which most people do ANYWAY), then there wouldn't BE an uninsured motorist issue. PLUS those of us with cheap cars would be able to afford our insurance so EVERYBODY would have insurance and that ought to be the goal. No broken up cars on the streets, good auto repair employment, no unpaid hospital bills.

I was just hit by an uninsured motorist 2 weeks ago. My insurance paid for the vehicle repair as well, I'm happy. No anger, no blame, life is good.